Who should pay PCN, me or the wife?

[Tomofthenight]

Just going through our records, in order to retrieve unjust bailiffs charges (thank you for the info fellow caggers) we have came across a final notice from Marstons, dated feb this year, for a PCN that I incurred doing a job 2 years previous. to cut a long story short, they appeared at the door one morning in Feb when I was at work and my wife answered the door, she was told that he needed full payment there and then, or the van was just round the corner, and they would enter to remove goods. My wife was in a panic and had to borrow the £343 fee. No levy was placed, no entry was made, and my wife never signed anything. Also, the car involved is registered to me, and I am the owner, plus I admit me getting this PCN, but can my wife be forced into paying my debt, and should the bailiff have let known to her the details of the debt without my permission. Help appreciated.

[reallymadwoman]

Sorry I can't help, just bumping you up to the top of the forum.

[Tomofthenight]

Thanks for the bump reallymadwoman, I've tried searching the site for anything relevant, but can't find anything yet.

Also, after talking to the wife about it today, she informed me that the bailiff arrived just as the kids friends were calling for the kids, and the bailiff continued to discuss my affairs in front of both my kids and their mates, and seeing the state that their mother was in, they were really worried all day at school, and ran home after to make sure mum was ok.

I intend pursuing the inflated fees from the bailiff, but I'm not sure where I stand with my private information being talked about in front of any third parties.

[nick20045]

Not some whizzkid but will try and understand this:

 

First of all, (with a bit of humour) who pays a fine? The husband or the wife? It is ALWAYS the husband. The wife is always perfect, does not do anything wrong and if you do not want burnt food, accidentally burnt clothes while being ironed, to be in the doghouse and constantly nagged then it is obvious the husband always pays.

 

Now off to see what you have............

 

Just going through our records, in order to retrieve unjust bailiffs charges

First one. Have you been issued with a court summons for this alleged debt? (Notice I use the word "alleged"). Secondly have you been found guilty and a CCJ made against you? Third have you failed to pay the fine within the stipulated time AFTER the court ruling? IF ANY OF THEM ARE MISSING then it is NOT bailiffs you had calling at your door but debt collectors. READ THE OFT GUIDELINES re debt collectors posing as bailffs and also how debt collectors can and cannot knock on peoples doors.

we have came across a final notice from Marstons for a PCN that I incurred doing a job 2 years previous.

That to me tells me that it is NOT a council PCN that you have but it is an INVOICE from a [problem] beggar company like Civil Enforcement Ltd (just use search at the top to see how much of a lowlifes they are). IF it had been a council PCN then it would not take 2 years to get taken to court. (Hence read posts how [problem] parking companies are loved on here.)

they appeared at the door one morning in Feb when I was at work and my wife answered the door, she was told that he needed full payment there and then, or the van was just round the corner, and they would enter to remove goods.

Totally against OFT Guidelines.

My wife was in a panic and had to borrow the £343 fee.

Defo not a council PCN. Never heard of a council PCN for £343.

Also, the car involved is registered to me, and I am the owner, plus I admit me getting this PCN, but can my wife be forced into paying my debt, and should the bailiff have let known to her the details of the debt without my permission. Help appreciated.

You NEVER admit or say who the driver was.

 

The question: You say your wife paid the con artists. Shame on your wife (sorry to say that) but if I was to knock on her door while you are at work or out and demand £300 saying I am a bailiff will she also give me that money? She should have told them that you are out, she does not see people unless you are there and to move. PLUS for bailiffs to enter they have to have a court warrant of entry.

 

Hence the question is: What exactly do you want to do? Your wife paid them (ok..... she paniced but she paid them).

 

Thanks for the bump reallymadwoman, I've tried searching the site for anything relevant, but can't find anything yet.

Also, after talking to the wife about it today, she informed me that the bailiff arrived just as the kids friends were calling for the kids, and the bailiff continued to discuss my affairs in front of both my kids and their mates, and seeing the state that their mother was in, they were really worried all day at school, and ran home after to make sure mum was ok.

I intend pursuing the inflated fees from the bailiff, but I'm not sure where I stand with my private information being talked about in front of any third parties.

Two points:

a: How come this happened in February and you are asking now? Bit too late in my opinion.

b: Once again it was not bailiffs but a con artist posing as a bailiff.

 

To be honest, fair enough your wife did not know the difference between a court appointed bailiff and a con artist working for a private parking company. BUT they have been paid. It is now a matter of your word against theirs. And I doubt they will admit to saying they broke the OFT guidelines and even possible other laws.

 

The best thing is to learn a lesson. Tell your wife to remember that any strangers knocking on the door she must tell them to return when you are present. Also UNLESS you see a proper court document (and not just a photocopy either) it is not a bailiff and even the police cannot enter your home unless they have a court warrant OR there is the chance of personal harm happening to a human being

 

It is also advisable to read the OFT Guidelines and also the Debt collection guidelines (e.g. how you can tell a debt collector to shift and if they do not then you can call the police). As to Private Parking Companies learn to ignore them.

 

Last but not least, unless somebody can say otherwise, the ONLY options you have are:

1: File a complaint with the OFT. Then again, it will not get you any money back.

2: Issue civil proceedings in the County Court against them. I would not really suggest this as, it will be your wifes word against theirs and, as I have already said, they will not admit to breach of guidelines. Most probably they will say that she apologised and gave them the cash, a cup of tea and also chocolate buscuits. As for the kids being witnesses, I doubt the Court will allow that they testify due to age.

 

 

Sorry not best info but I dont believe in building peoples hopes for nothing.

Edited November 14, 2009 by nick20045

[nick20045]

Incidentally who is liable to pay?

 

As shown, none of you were liable to pay as it was a [problem].

 

Who is guilty of making good for this loss then?

 

You can blame it on your wife for panicing and paying. Then again, your wife will blame it on you for a: not educating her in these matters b: protecting the children and c: protecting your home as she deemed best. d: her job is to look after the home and the children. you are responsible for other matters

 

Let us see: Husband has one reply. Wife has: 4

 

Wife wins. :D

[hallowitch]

do you know the date of the parking ticket by any chance

I'm not to good with parking tickets if this is wrong someone please correct me

 

have i read your first post correct this parking ticket was over 12months

i found this on the Ministry of justice web site so i thought id post it as i wouldn't mind finding out myself for future reference can they enforce a parking ticket thats over 12months old or do they have to re-issue it first

Part 75 TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT

Warrant of execution

 

75.7

 

(1) An authority seeking the issue of a warrant of execution must file a request –

(a) certifying the amount remaining due under the order;

 

(b) specifying the date of service of the order on the respondent; and

 

© certifying that the relevant period has elapsed.

 

 

(2) The court will seal the request and return it to the authority.

 

(3) Within 7 days of the sealing of the request the authority must prepare the warrant in the appropriate form.

 

(4) No payment under a warrant will be made to the court.

 

(5) For the purposes of execution a warrant will be valid for 12 months beginning with the date of its issue.

 

(6) An authority may not renew a warrant issued in accordance with this Part beyond the 12 month validity period but, subject to paragraph (7), an authority may request the reissue of a warrant during the 12 month validity period.

 

(7) Where the address of the respondent has changed since the issue of the warrant, the authority may request the reissue of the warrant by filing a request –

(a) specifying the new address of the respondent;

 

(b) providing evidence that the new address for the respondent does relate to the respondent named in the order and against whom enforcement is sought; and

 

© certifying that the amount due under the order remains unpaid.

 

 

(8) Where the court is satisfied that the new address of the respondent given in the request for the reissue of the warrant relates to the respondent named in the order, it will seal the request and return it to the authority.

 

(9) The authority must prepare the reissued warrant in the appropriate form within 7 days of the sealing of the request to reissue.

 

(10) A reissued warrant will only be valid for the remainder of the 12 month period beginning with the date it was originally issued.

[nick20045]

do you know the date of the parking ticket by any chance

I'm not to good with parking tickets if this is wrong someone please correct me

 

have i read your first post correct this parking ticket was over 12months

i found this on the Ministry of justice web site so i thought id post it as i wouldn't mind finding out myself for future reference can they enforce a parking ticket thats over 12months old or do they have to re-issue it first

Part 75 TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT

In my opinion, fair enough if it was a council parking ticket issued by say a traffic warden.

 

But, this looks like it was a Private Parking Company. With a Private Parking Company it is a contract that is entered into and not a PCN. Hence I would take it that Traffic enforcement does not apply.

[seanamarts]

Do you know the bailiff company that carried this warrant out.

By law they should of showed your wife ALL paper work with regards to this debt, ie warrant plus a breakdown of the fees they are charging plus their identity. Have you had any letters from parking company for this or any letters from bailiff company to say that they are coming? You should of at least had something sent from a court before any bailiff can act with regards to any parking fines.

[Tomofthenight]

Sorry, I should have made things clearer.

These bailiffs (Marstons) were collecting for an unpaid PCN. Notice from council was received, stating penalty charge had not been fully paid, therefore amount now due was £105.

next was a letter from Marstons saying;

Penalty Charge £110

Letter Fee £11.20

Bailiff Fees £0.00

VAT £1.68

Total Amount Due £122.88

 

Next was call at the door to my wife, saying amount due was £343.33, no

levy was placed, no documentation signed, only the threat of a van appearing unless full payment was made there and then. An increase of £220.45 for one visit, with no van, and no breakdown of fees.

 

Unfortunately my wife borrowed from a high interest lender to pay off this bailiff, leaving us even further in debt.

 

My gripe is not whether I was guilty for the PCN, it is the way my wife was treated in front of our kids, whether it is legal to basically force some-one to borrow money to then just shift the debt to another lender, and the fact that between a letter and a visit, the debt had increased so dramatically, to add round about 180 % for 1 visit.

 

The fact that it has taken me so long to get advice on this matter is quite plain, if you would only look to the left where it says "cagger since".

I only wish that I had found this boxfull of advice and help a while back.

 

TOTN

[Tomofthenight]

Also bailiff co. is Marstons.

[nick20045]

Did she get a receipt for the money? Something to show the amount claimed has been settled in full?

 

If NO then once again she did the wrong thing. How can she know they will not come again demanding money? She has no proof.

 

If YES then you course of action is to get it assessed by the court.

 

Hopefully somebody else will come along and give some more advise. But up to now, that is what I have personally read.

[Tomofthenight]

thanks Nick,

yes she got a receipt, but no itemisation on it, but bless their little cotton socks, they were willing to let her off with £3.33 if she paid cash.

I want to know if I can still pursue recovery of unfair fees, and what kind of chance I have.

 

TOTN

[nick20045]

 

If YES then you course of action is to get it assessed by the court.

 

thanks Nick,

yes she got a receipt, but no itemisation on it, but bless their little cotton socks, they were willing to let her off with £3.33 if she paid cash.

I want to know if I can still pursue recovery of unfair fees, and what kind of chance I have.

 

TOTN

Answer was already given to you.

 

Also, although on here you get some very wise and helpful advise, there is also what is called "Google is your friend".

 

Bailiff charges & fees

 

From: Bailiffs & Council Tax - How to Deal With a Debt Collecting Bailiff

 

BAILIFFS CHARGES

You may be able to complain about bailiffs charges. The amounts they are allowed to charge for council tax and poll tax are set out in the schedule on page 5. The amounts they are allowed to charge for council tax are set out on the next page in the schedule. There are lower fees for poll tax collection. These are shown in italics. If you feel you have been charged too much you can complain in writing to the Council and the bailiffs. You may be able to ask the County Court to look at the charges for you see below. Phone us for advice.

You can find out what is 'reasonable' by making enquiries on a local basis. For example, if you have been charged £80 for attendance with a van, and local enquires indicate you could hire a van for a morning for £40 this is clearly unreasonable, especially as it is likely that bailiffs will be visiting several properties at once, and many companies own their own vans.

In the first instance, complain to the bailiffs themselves. You can tell them you know their charges are excessive and that you will be taking further action if the charges are not reduced to the levels shown in the schedule.

* You can then complain to the council as the bailiffs are acting as agents of the Council. There have been recent cases that have been taken back in front of the Magistrates Court over these issues, with the result that the councils have been forbidden to take any further recovery action, or in other words, the debt has been written off. So it IS worth complaining.

* You can apply to the County Court for the costs to be checked. This is called "Taxation". The court can look at a complaint within 12 months. They will decide if the charges are excessive or not. There is a fee to pay to the court for this application. If the court decides not reduce the bill at least 20% you can be liable for the bailiffs firm's court costs. You need legal advice first.

USEFUL LINKS

The Secretary

Association of Civil Enforcement Agencies Kensington House

33 Imperial Square Cheltenam

Glos Tel: 01242 241456

Website: www.acea.org.uk The Secretary

Enforcement Services Association (ENSAS) (formally The Certificated Bailiffs Association) Ridgefield House

14 John Dalton Street Manchester M2 6JR Tel: 0161 839 7225 Website: www.bailiffs.org.uk

Local Government Ombudsman (England)

Millbank Tower Milbank

London SW1P 4QP Advice Line: 0845 602 1983

Monday to Friday 9.00 am - 4.30 pm. Website: www.lgo.org.uk There are 3 Local Government Ombudsman offices for England. Please contact the advice line to check where to send any complaint.

Local Government Ombudsman (Wales)

Derwen House Court Road Bridgend CF31 1BN

Tel: 01656 661 325 Website: www.ombudsman-wales.org

 

 

From:How to reclaim unfair bailiff charges

 

If you have been overcharged on fees by a bailiff company, you can claim back unfair charges.Before making a claim against a bailiff company for any unfair charges, the debt must have been settled before you bring a claim.

To give yourself the best possible chance of recovering unfair bailiff charges, ensure you have the following:

 

1) original documents supplied by the bailiff
2) payment receipts
3) bailiff company documents outlining charges and visit details
4) correspondence from and to the bailiff company.

A waiting period of around 60 days can be expected once a claim with the bailiffs has been raised. A Company has 40 days in which to reply to your request. The good news is many bailiff firms settle promptly prior to court due, which in itself highlights the need for stricter controls on charges and fees.

If you receive anything less than copies of original documents from the bailiff company, inform them of your rights under the Data Protection Act. A request for original documents outlining charges and visits, is referred to as a Subject Access Request (S.7). An S7 is pursuant to Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998, which the bailiff company must comply with by law.

In the even the situation become increasingly trying and bailiffs ignore your correspondence, a second letter can be sent if they do not comply within the 40 days limit. It is advisable to impress upon them once again, that you are fully aware of your rights and they have failed to comply with the Subject Access request. No more than 7 days should be granted for bailiffs to comply with the Subject Access guidelines. After which file your case against them in court with no further notice.

[nick20045]

I am trying to give a link to a site but dont know why it keeps coming up as a different site altogether. So.......... _http://www.bailiff adviceonline.co.uk (remove the space between the "f" and the "a" when you paste into your browser before you hit enter. If it shows as a direct link, then you can use "Quote" and copy it from there.

 

From that site:

 

Example of Bailiff’s Fees for PCN’s

 

In the following examples, we have provided you with the amount of Statutory Fees that bailiffs should charge when enforcing an unpaid Parking Charge Notice (PCN). Under the Bailiff Fees section of our Downloads area, you will find full details of these charges, together with a brief explanation and suggestions also, if you wish to disput the “reasonable fees”.

Original Parking Ticket: £100. If paid within the discounted period of 14 days: £50. If unpaid, original debt of £100 increases by 50% to: £150 Court Fee: £5 Warrant of Execution amount: £155 The amount of £155 is passed to the bailiff to collect. If you pay on receipt of a first letter you should pay: £168.16 If you pay when a first visit is made you should pay: £222.84 Original Parking Ticket: £80 If paid within the discounted period of 14 days: £40. If unpaid, original debt of £80 increases by 50% to: £120 Court Fee: £5 Warrant of Execution amount: £125 The amount of £125 is passed to the bailiff to collect. If you pay on receipt of a first letter you should pay: £138.16 If you pay when a first visit is made you should pay: £182.97 Original Parking Ticket: £60. If paid within the discounted period of 14 days: £30. If unpaid, original debt of £60 increases by 50% to: £90 Court Fee: £5 Warrant of Execution amount: £95 The amount of £95 is passed to the bailiff to collect. If you pay on receipt of a first letter you should pay: £106.20 If you pay when a first visit is made you should pay: £143.10 Original Parking Ticket: £40. If paid within the discounted period of 14 days: £20. If unpaid, original debt of £40 increases by 50% to: £60 Court Fee: £5 Warrant of Execution amount: £65 The amount of £65 is passed to the bailiff to collect. If you pay on receipt of a first letter you should pay: £78.16 If you pay when a first visit is made you should pay: £111.06

 

Other bailiff info available on that site as well.

Edited November 18, 2009 by nick20045

[Tomofthenight]

Thank you very much for help Nick.

I will pursue recovery of excessive charges, and complain about bailiffs actions to LA.

Will let you know what happens.

 

TOTN

[hallowitch]

http://www.bailiff adviceonline.co.uk thats tomtubby web site the reason the link is not working is because its a commercial site