Log Book Loans Licence Revoked by OFT!!!!

[applecart]

Hi Leroy

 

Hope this reply is not too late - well done on getting the injunction : )

 

Firstly, the 'quote' that LBL has given you is a 'smoke screen' - it has no relevance whatsoever - they are simply 'pulling a fast one' - the citation is probably for some other matter but, they use it frequently to 'fob' consumers off.

 

The defence for any potentially invalid BoS by any Consumer is this:

 

where you consider the BoS to be invalid - be it due to 'out of time registration', 'not in the prescribed form', 'incorrectly executed', etc. etc...

 

1 write to the High Court of Justice, Enforcement & Enrolment Section, Room E17, Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, London, WC2A 2LL

 

2 submit the ref no of the loan, the registration no of the Bill of Sale and the address of the parties and a fee of £5.

 

Here's a sample letter:

 

Dear Sirs

Re: Registration No: xxxxx Loan Ref NO: xxxx

With regard to the above, I write to request a copy of the Bill of Sale that I understand was registered with you on xxxxx 2006/7/8/9 (whatever the known date was/is).

the known parties are:

XXXXXX of Such and Such an address (lender)

and: XXXX of such and such an address (Consumer)

In sending your reply, I request that you send each and every document that is held on the register in this matter; with specific regard to any document in form PF182; this being an order from the Master as proof that the registered document has been rectified. *(or change 'has been rectified' to say 'is a valid registration').

If for any reason you are unable to submit a PF182 document for the above registered Bill of Sale, would you be good enough to confirm your written confirmation by return along with any documents held.

I look forward to your early reply

Yours sincerely

XXXXXXXX

The only way a Master gives an endorsement to any potentially unenforceable registered Bill of Sale is by way of an Order - I understand this to be protocol and a legal requirement by virtue of the Queens Bench Guide 2006 13.4.3 & 13.4.6 - the Master does not send the lender a 'quote' from Halsbury's Law!!!!

 

The Lender, should; if he has 'rectified' your Bill of Sale - send you a copy of the 'order' from the Master - Not a 'quote'!!!

 

Once you get confirmation from the HCJ (normally within 2 -3 days of a request made - but be quick; I think there are about to be oooo's of requests made as soon as this info gets out!! - could delay your response)

 

Hopefully the response from the HCJ will prove that no such PF182 document exists. (This should defend that the document used to seize your vehicle gave them NO legal right to do so)

 

Take on board also that it is very unlikely that they would have gained an order from the court prior to taking your car........

 

Your Defence here is that: The Bill of Sale Act 1882 at Section 7a 'Defaults under Consumer Credit Agreements'

 

Paragraph (1) of section 7 of this Act does not apply to a default relating to a bill of sale given by way of security for the payment of money under a regulated agreement to which section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 applies -

 

At this part of your defence - I would also make it clear to the Judge that their are 2 types of Bill of Sale:

 

1 Absolute &

2 Conditional

 

for reference - here are the definitions:

 

"Conditional Bill of Sale: In this particular bill of sale, the buyer gives a collateral as security, to the seller, until the time he has completed the agreed upon payment for the asset on sale. In case, the buyer becomes a defaulter in completing the payment on the conditions enlisted in the bill of sale, the document may enable the seller to gain possession on the collateral."

Absolute Bill of Sale: An Absolute bill of sale solves the purpose of a legal proof of sale, when the related transaction for the transfer of the ownership is regarded as complete. In this particular bill of sale, the seller gives thumbs up to the whole transaction by acknowledging the receipt of payment, transferring the ownership to the buyer, and releasing all his claims on the property.

(this should defend that because the Bill of Sale was Conditional and whilst a Bill of Sale is for all intense and purpose a claim to 'title' or ownership of property, that when it is a 'conditional' bill of sale' the Lenders power of 'title' or 'ownership' are regulated by the CCA 1974 - what this means is that they would have needed to show a court of law that they had followed the correct procedure prior to taking your car (i.e - gone down the line of serving a correct default notice that met procedure and regulation, termination etc etc - so that when they came to take it - they would have been able to show you a 'order from the court' - Not a copy of some bill of Sale).

 

If you were the first person to have bought the vehicle - you should be able to find a thread on the forum submitted by me about your defence in that regard also...

 

Once you establish that the bill of Sale is invalid - you can rely on Sections 105, 106 and 107 of the CCA 1974 - these sections confirm that where an invalid security is used to seize a vehicle where no court order has been gained - then this is viewed as 'enforcement' and the Judge can look to ensure you get compensation - it's a pity the agteement was not in your name Leroy - because if it had been and they took your car under those circumstances - you would be in for a windfall of all the money you paid under the agreement in addition to prejudice caused.

 

Look also at gaining a Declaration under Section 142 of the CCA - so that the Lender cannot bring this action against you or the vehicle at a future date.

 

Check all of this through with your Solictor of course.

 

Hope this is not too late and is of use : )

 

Apple

 

 

[applecart]

Just a quick note...

 

Be advised, that even when lbl have taken your car and are chasing you for money for the outstanding loan - you can still put a claim in against them for the return of your vehicle and compensation.

 

You simply need to prove that they had no right to take the car - if you know you can prove they had no right to take your car - then you can under the Limitations Act 1980 - take the matter to court within a 6 year period.

 

Don't suffer in silence - fight them, claim your consumer rights.

 

Apple : )

[leroy chambers]

Thanks Apple shall send letter out to day

[applecart]

Leroy - your welcome : )

 

Apple

[trooper68]

Just a quick note...

 

Be advised, that even when lbl have taken your car and are chasing you for money for the outstanding loan - you can still put a claim in against them for the return of your vehicle and compensation.

 

You simply need to prove that they had no right to take the car - if you know you can prove they had no right to take your car - then you can under the Limitations Act 1980 - take the matter to court within a 6 year period.

 

Don't suffer in silence - fight them, claim your consumer rights.

 

Apple : )

 

Apple on the ball as always,

 

Just to add that might well help with the case to refer to is the Human Rights Act - Protocol 1, Artical 1-The right to use your property and possessions-This weighs heavy with the Judge- As in This case it seems that the car was purchased in good faith (which in itself can be seen a grey area) If they claim they own the car-on a unvalid BoS they cannot-simple.

 

Apple- Keep up the good work buddy.

 

7 Days for my case at fast track....

 

 

trooper68

[IS IT ME?]

Happy to see the threads still go strong

[legsit]

After being made redundant my cousin fell behind with her LBL payments, she tried to make a deal with them but they didn't want to know!

 

Then she moved and now they've reported the car as stolen! She did an HPI check and it's true! It's on the police national computer as a stolen vehicle!

 

She went to her solicitor but because she doesn't have any money all they told her was that the bill of sale didn't seem to be valid but they couldn't advise her further without payment.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Thanks, Lorraine

[cctv engineer]

After being made redundant my cousin fell behind with her LBL payments, she tried to make a deal with them but they didn't want to know!

 

Then she moved and now they've reported the car as stolen! She did an HPI check and it's true! It's on the police national computer as a stolen vehicle!

 

She went to her solicitor but because she doesn't have any money all they told her was that the bill of sale didn't seem to be valid but they couldn't advise her further without payment.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Thanks, Lorraine

they did the same to me. the police will not do anything. just tell here to call into her local police station and explain the problem they will then give her a report number and she will not get stopped. and it will be taken off the anpr system.

[legsit]

thanks cctv! well apparently she's now spoken to the police who passed her on to an officer who already has a case number etc. he said she has to tell them the whereabouts of the car (she doesn't have it anymore anyway!) and if she does so within a cpl of weeks nothing else will happen otherwise she will be brought in for questioning!

[lippy56]

do they still have there licence to trade or has it been reinstated

[lippy56]

hi just had a call from log book saying a notice of default was issued what is a defaul notice

[MARTIN3030]

It is a notice they are required to send under the Consumer Credit Act if you miss or dont make payments as per the agreement.

[Nicky Bodmin]

hI,

a default notice is a requirement of the credit consumer act its the first step towards enforcement. Its what is given when you have put the account into errors or missed a payment.

Companies register it on your Credit File and stays for a period of six years.

A default notice has to be sent in writing or the company cant go for enforcement.

You can legaly challenge them and have them removed from your Credit Files

Dont ignore it.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Nicky Bodmin
spelling

[kevinroyal]

Help !

 

Am in dispute with LBL over charges levied.

 

So I have just written to them to ask for a settlement figure excluding charges, so I can dispute charges seperately. I will pay this ammount but somehow doubt they will seperate the two.

 

1 Do I have a right to insist they do this ?

2 Can I sell the car / do they have rights over the car for charges, once capital and interest has been cleared?

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

[ims]

hi applecart could you or anyone help.

 

i took out a LBL loan of £1700 against my £4000 car, which has a private plate on it, after a brief spell of cash flow problems a family member offered to pay the full balance within the 14 day cooling off period, to which i repaid to the family member in installments much cheaper than the LBL loan. After 6 months or so i had a collection team at my home saying they were going to repo the car, being an ex bailiff and the car not being on my drive i basically told them bollocks and they left. i contacted LBL only to find out that no payments had been made to my account??!! My family member insisted the balance had been paid via cheque and cashed!! proof was given, to which was provided to LBL, anyhow, got a phone call stating that there was still £1000 to be paid which was interest, i paid using a card and thought that was that. How wrong was i!

 

I then checked my paperwork and spoke to a solicitor mainly about the £1000 interest, which could not possibly be added if paid within the 14 days??!!

Solicitor, checked paperwork and said the BOS was invalid and that the loan is consequently a CCA, and that no other money should have been paid, i contacted LBL, after who again informed me, due to the account not been fully settled it was now in default and they were going to report the car stolen, after an explination the guy i spoke to said he would look into it and ring me if there was a problem. no phone calls, no letters.

 

Today, i get a phone call from the Mrs saying there was a transit connect blocking our driveway, and a guy was HAMMERING my door, i came straight home, to find two guys (anglian) were going to take my car, now on my driveway. After explaining everything he called the office and was told to take it, and i would have to take them to court! I told them about the BOS and The CCA and told them it was illegal to remove the car and i would contact the police!

Which he didnt care about, I then contacted the police who told me it was a civil matter. but they would attend to ensure no disturbance of the peace was caused.

tow truck arrived and asked for the key ( BOLLOCKS i said), he cut the back brakes with bolt cutters, and tied a winch to the front alloy!! and tried to pull it by its front wheel 90 degrees, steering lock was on and facing my fence, at the front and the rear against the house, the front then damaged my bushes and mini trees on my front.

police stated they had LEGAL RIGHT to remove the car, i explained the details and the copper just said its civil, let them take the car and sort it later, i said let me keep the car and they can sort it later, was told agin they are taking the car!! after a heated discussion as you can imagine, more police turned up, blue lights sirens etc, imagine the neighbours watching, i was told to remove my possesions from the car, i had to remove them with a little force as you can imagine, my dvd player was proper fixed in and so was my hands free kit, i locked the car after, and they dragged it onto the truck!!

After paying close attention to these forum posts, i know the car is going to Manchester, and will soon be in auction or sold to a close family friend of the guy at LBL for peanuts, but the car is locked and immobilised and the keys and documents are with me.

I did try my best, honest...

All i need to know now is what do i do next, solicitors etc are expensive and could cost more than the car is worth??

Any advice would be much appreciated, What im thinking know is to contact DVLA for private plate etc and to refuse transfer of ownership, make an official complaint against the police for allowing a theft to take place in their pressence etc, anything else i may be missing!

thanks guys you have all been a great help in the past.

Edited June 8, 2010 by ims

[selinajayne]

omg ims, i cant believe that, its like they think they are their own law and the police surely shouldnt have done that

sorry i cant help maybe start you own thread

[trooper68]

IMS

 

1st The Police handled this very badly, you need to make this formal complaint against the Police, the officer on arriving should have contacted a senoir officer. Make a statement and keep the incedent number handy.

 

2nd, contact the sol you have been using advise him of the situ, value of the car is not important at this time. The car was taken at force from you property, force is the correct word for it.

 

3rd At the Sol, ask him to move quickly for an injunction to stop the car being sold, they should wait 5 days, but they don't. Get it served. (lets hope thay have not sold it yet for thier sake) Get him to work fast on this. The injunction is time served, so its usally 28 days, get the small claims forms in.

 

Take a step back, clear your head. Now, you will need to get the ball rolling- SAR LBL (theres a template in the stickys) reg it and send of ASAP. They will need to supply you with all your account details-including phone calls and payments. 40 days is the expire time...not 40 working days.

 

Gather all your paperwork together and make copys of all the payments, bills and any evidence-you and only you keep the originals.

 

Above all, keep you head, you have done nothing wrong, now its your time to take control.

 

trooper68

[ims]

just an update :

 

just spoke with the police again, explained what has happened and read them applecarts post from earlier, been told its still a civil matter, i then explained that my understanding of the law is that:

 

1) a person has deliberatly intended to deprive me of my vehicle as i am in possession of a reciept stating it is to go to auction! constitutes theft

 

2) a person has taken my motor vehicle without my permission as the owner so constitutes TWOC (taking without owners consent)

 

Either of the above is a legal matter and does need the attention of the police, i am now waiting for the chief constable to contact me in this matter, needless to say i informed the police that i will be holding them accountable for letting these so called repo men remove my car illegally!!!

[ims]

thanks trooper, i am in the process of doing just that, what happens if they sell the car in the meantime, also like i said i have all the keys and the documents, contacted DVLA and informed them of the situation, and that i as the legal owner do not allow it to transfer to a third party, and that i intend to remove the personal plate

[selinajayne]

ims, how do you find out about what auction its going to

[cctv engineer]

thanks trooper, i am in the process of doing just that, what happens if they sell the car in the meantime, also like i said i have all the keys and the documents, contacted DVLA and informed them of the situation, and that i as the legal owner do not allow it to transfer to a third party, and that i intend to remove the personal plate

 

 

ims. i need you to call me ASAP. i will pm you my number.

[ims]

hi selinajayne, i over heard the anglian man tell the recovery truck driver, also it says on the back of a yellow reciept that the vehicle is to be taken to auction, but doesnt say which one. i will try find out.

 

Just finished on phone to the chief officer, he said there is nothing they can do as it is a civil matter, and that if i wanted the police to get involved, i would have to prove something illegal happened??!! using a legal body, and that he said would be very hard.

 

got a migrane now

[ims]

just want to say a big thanks to Tom, great insight mate. Speak soon

[cctv engineer]

just want to say a big thanks to Tom, great insight mate. Speak soon

 

no problem ims.

[trooper68]

hi selinajayne, i over heard the anglian man tell the recovery truck driver, also it says on the back of a yellow reciept that the vehicle is to be taken to auction, but doesnt say which one. i will try find out.

 

Just finished on phone to the chief officer, he said there is nothing they can do as it is a civil matter, and that if i wanted the police to get involved, i would have to prove something illegal happened??!! using a legal body, and that he said would be very hard.

 

got a migrane now

 

 

Hi IMS, I'm sorry but the Police is wrong THEY have a duty to investigate not you, its there job. I think a formal complaint to the Police complaits Commision on this issue, by the way the issue has been handled.

 

Its the Police's mandate to investigate every possible line of equiry. you are correct in that the car was taken without your permission-and the police stance "of keeping the peace". Did at anytime during the "repo" the agents touch you or your wife?

 

What of the Sol? I think the way forward is the injunction with the car and LBL.

 

trooper68