Yet Another Suicide through Debt. We're going to fight back NOW!!!

[Desperate Daniella]

Yet another woman has killed herself over debt after Lloyds pulled her business's overdraft facility. She leaves a husband and two small children. She knelt down in front of a train.

 

This has got to stop.

 

So many of us on this forum know what it is like to be hounded like this, or to have the banks who have been fine when you were doing well suddenly pull the plug on you when you need it most.

 

What can we do?

 

DDxx

[Desperate Daniella]

www.dailymail.co.uk

[nunnyrose]

You're right Daniella, this has got to stop!

I weep reading some of the posts here, as I'm sure many of us do ( or maybe I'm just over emotional through stress)

We are a collective group, all brought together by debt issues,and in a way we are the lucky ones having found CAG and getting the support from each other that we so desperately need. I dont suppose anybody really knows the extent of suicides through debt, but I'm sure that many of us have contemplated it.

perhaps we could run a poll ?

have you attempted ?

considered ?

never ?

who is your main debt with ?

a name and shame campaign.

a petition to the banks, mp's and No. 10 with the results.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi nunnyrose,

 

I don't think you're being over emotional through stress - anyone with a heart would cry for that poor woman and her husband and children. Of course in the paper there were the usual nasty comments from people who have no idea how suddenly debt can come to any of us.

 

I think a poll is a very good idea. Don't know how to start one but will find out later if no-one has answered how to do it by then. Not around for most of today but back later.

 

I certainly have seriously considered it. I've told several times on this forum about a call from AIC about this time last year which frightened me almost to death. I wasn't on CAG, didn't know where to turn, and this lying man was saying they'd bankrupt me, put a charge on my house, anything and everything. I offered over £800 which was my mortgage money and they wouldn't take it - wanted ten times that or they were going to start proceedings.

 

Cried and cried all night but in the morning thought of the FSA who put me in touch with CCCS, and although I didn't go into a plan with CCCS I will be forever grateful to the girl I spoke to that morning who told me they couldn't do what they said, and immediately gave me a reference number to quote to AIC (and anyone else).

 

AIC backed off immediately. They want to be wicked but they don't want to be exposed for what they are.

 

I'm very glad they were soooo greedy they turned down my £800. Of course when I quoted the CCCS reference number they said they would take that after all, but it was too late. CCCS said not to pay them a penny and I didn't.

 

There needs to be a name and shame campaign. We have threads on this forum about bad behaviour of DCAs, because most banks/card companies hide behind them so as to remove themselves from the nastier side of debt collecting, and can be in denial about what actually goes on.

 

As you say, we are the lucky ones because we found CAG but we all know that there are people out there right now considering suicide due to debt.

 

DDx

[Mrs E Blackadder]

I absolutely agree with all you have said DD. I know there are some people who are in debt because they just don't know how to stop spending, but for most it is a position thrust upon us through a set of unfortunate circumstances, but no one seems to care. Creditors are all happy enough to be shoving loans, credit cards and any other amount of debt at you when they think you are credit worthy, yet when that changes (often overnight) they won't do a thing to help and infact make it worse by adding charges and constantly harrassing you. There have been many occassions when, frankly, those pills in the bathroom cupboard have been tempting, but I think of my children and the pain and hurt it would cause them. Sadly though for some people, that no longer matters and just the thought of no longer having to cope with it all takes over.

 

You only have to read some of the threads on here to realise the extent of this problem, but still nothing gets done about these companies who, against any legislation or guidelines, still consider it fair game to try any trick in the book to 'catch their man'. Half the trouble is that even if you do complain to the relevant authority, it is rare that anything gets done about it.

 

We are going through a recession where you think that someone, somewhere in a position of authority would be looking at ways to help people out of debt or stop them getting there in the first place. But no. Instead we have the likes of The Halifax upping their overdraft fees. How the bloody hell is that supposed to help people and why are they being allowed to get away with it? NO ONE DOES ANYTHING TO STOP THESE PEOPLE. Even the government wants to make things worse by making you pay to prove your innocence with a speeding ticket. If you are innocent then why should you have to pay? It is ridiculous.

 

I fully sympathise with anyone who considers suicide because of debt. Sometimes it can seem the only path available, and only people who have been there can truly understand it.

[nunnyrose]

"...but for most it is a position thrust upon us through a set of unfortunate circumstances"

This is the point, it can happen to anybody and everybody needs to be made aware that we are each as vunerable as the next. I am facing respossession at the moment due to the greed of the banks, I'm dealing with it and it's great to get the support from caggers

BUT, a thought... wouldn't it be great if we could join forces physically, not just here. so when the bailiffs are about to move in every cagger in the area petition outside the property to be repossessed. I'm not syaing it would stop the eviction, but it might get local news involved, possibly even national news in time - a united front that will grow. If I lose my home I lose it, but if there is anything I can do to prevent others from the same I'll do it.

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Hi Nunny, I'm in the same boat as you with regard to repossession, so feel somewhat united with you!

 

Whilst I would never say that I am totally blameless in the debts that occured for me, most of them happened through circumstances beyond my control. However, I still find it bizarre that at a time when you have no money, so many organisations consider it a good time to start slapping on charges for all and sundry. If you are struggling to find money in the first place, how the hell are you supposed to pay all the extra. Then they take you to court and make you pay all the charges for that too. Something has to give and for some people it is, very sadly, their minds and ultimately their lives. Even with support it can seem a never ending spiral of despair.

 

Something needs to be done, and quickly, about the way debtors are handled by their creditors when things go wrong. Having been on the receiving end of things, it is more than easy to see why people either never contact the creditor or simply stop making contact because of the way they are spoken to and dealt with. I have been called a liar, told that I can go to prison for my debts (it was a store card, not even council tax), told that I can be held responsible for my ex's debts and whatever I offered in repayment per month it was never enough. When you are in the tangled web that debt weaves, being spoken to in this way certainly does nothing for your confidence, which is of course why they do it. It isn't hard to see why some people would consider suicide a suitable method of getting away from it all. Even when you have the relevant facts to help you, it can all seem too much to wade your way through.

 

It would be great to present a united front, but I fear that the embarrassment of debt and repossession is far greater than wanting to stand up for your rights at that particular moment. I suppose that is why CAG works so well for the majority who use it, because of the anonimity. I wish I could come up with an answer as I sometimes feel so frustrated when reading the threads on here. Perhaps there is a simple 'human rights' issue to all this, where we are entitled to be treated with respect and dignity. Has anyone checked under European law? Just a thought.

[nunnyrose]

"but I fear that the embarrassment of debt and repossession is far greater than wanting to stand up for your rights at that particular moment"

I know what you mean Mrs B, but for me I've got past the embarrassment stage - at this moment in time the most important thing for me is keeping my house and I dont care what I have to do or who knows. I have also contemplated the suicide route, that was the crucial time for me. I decided I could either end it all, or face up to the debts problems. I thought I was alone- satistics in the daily papers mean nothing to me. Not only have I shared my problems here but I have told everybody I know what I am facing at the moment. And guess what? they are all suffering some form of debt problem, some serious. I'm gonna sound like an activist now but I predict that there will be a united front- I dont know when but just maybe this could the beginning.

[nunnyrose]

"'human rights' issue to all this, where we are entitled to be treated with respect and dignity. Has anyone checked under European law? Just a thought"

Who decides on what is a human right? if enough humans agree that we should be treated with respect and dignity, that it is obscene the way the banks are treating us, that their high bonuses can not be justified... I could go on. Sorry to rant I will go and research European Law - sadly at this moment in time it is all any of us can do.

BTW Mrs B. have been reading your plight and am sending positive vibes

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi nunnyrose and Mrs B,

 

I fought off a repo earlier this year so know how you are feeling. I trust the wonderful Ell-enn is helping on both your threads?

 

You are so right, Mrs B, about all the extra charges. You don't pay your bills on time simply because you can't. Why then can British Gas add on £14 for a letter, £50 for a visit and so on. I don't pay any of my bills by direct debit because if the money isn't in the account I'll incur a returned dd charge. Therefore telecoms companies charge £3.50-£4.50 for processing a cheque. My very small business pays 28p for processing a cheque. These large companies use bulk clearing so I doubt if it even costs them 10p per cheque.

 

All these total rip-offs are getting us deeper and deeper into debt. I'm thinking of starting a petition about that.

 

I'm also thinking of another thread - just trying to think up the name to get people to look. Most of us are in this dire position because we took out cards at say, 10% and are now paying maybe, 28%, so it becomes almost impossible to ever pay them back and interest goes on top of interest and late payments, on and on and on.

 

I reckon if most people were to calculate how much they would have paid if the card companies hadn't increased the interests rates compared to what they have had to pay, we'd all have paid them off years ago.

 

I know what you mean about your children stopping you taking the pills, Mrs E, and I'm the same, but so many people who kill themselves genuinely believe their children and families will be happier without them and have a better life. I was there last weekend and thanks to everyone on my thread who got me through that despair.

 

This rotten financial situation so many of us are in has got to stop.

 

DDxxx

[Bigmac versus]

I read this yesterday and it is really sad, from what I read the bank simply removed the overdraft after putting it on a months notice, with a £30,000 overdraft you would expect it to be stepped down and not removed in full, but its an area I feel should be more regulated for protection of customers.

Shame on Lloyds.

[Desperate Daniella]

I have just done it.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/229028-if-your-card-interest.html

 

I haven't got a clue how to work it out but there maths geniuses on here so maybe they can.

 

DDxx

Edited October 31, 2009 by citizenB
original link wasnt working - replaced

[Desperate Daniella]

Totally agree with you bigmac. They just pull the facility and ruin people, but hey, never mind, it won't be affecting THEIR bonuses.

[DeRichleau]

I had the girder in my industrial unit picked out, I had the rope in the garage, and I was 50% serious. I sat in the unit after I had sacked the workforce, and at age 57 with a lifetime of battleing behind me broke my heart. I was not crying for myself, not for my business,but for the darkness in a world that I believed was basically kind and careing.When the tears dried I seemed to begin to heal, and I realised while there was the swamp there was also the mountain top. Then I got angry.With the help of CAG as well as many good friends I walked away from the lot, started all over again and slowly got back on my feet. I am not out of the woods yet, but this site is worth it,s weight in gold. Fight them, then fight again, it's the only way. Sorry if I sound over emotional or sanctamonious, but I think you will agree you have to hit rock bottom before you realise the only way is up.

[Desperate Daniella]

You don't sound over emotional or sanctimonious, DeRichleau, just another nice person who has come unstuck due to outside forces. Your story made me cry.

 

Glad you are building things up again.

 

DDx

[Mrs E Blackadder]

I had the girder in my industrial unit picked out, I had the rope in the garage, and I was 50% serious. I sat in the unit after I had sacked the workforce, and at age 57 with a lifetime of battleing behind me broke my heart. I was not crying for myself, not for my business,but for the darkness in a world that I believed was basically kind and careing.When the tears dried I seemed to begin to heal, and I realised while there was the swamp there was also the mountain top. Then I got angry.With the help of CAG as well as many good friends I walked away from the lot, started all over again and slowly got back on my feet. I am not out of the woods yet, but this site is worth it,s weight in gold. Fight them, then fight again, it's the only way. Sorry if I sound over emotional or sanctamonious, but I think you will agree you have to hit rock bottom before you realise the only way is up.

 

 

This is the sad thing, that most of us who have ended up having to deal with the piles of debt are not young and stupid. We are people who have worked hard, built up businesses and brought up families and yet we are hit through a series of unfortunate circumstances and end up losing it all. Like I said earlier, I would never claim that none of it was my fault but when you have worked hard, paid your mortgage for 20 odd years and then find yourself being patronised by some snotty nosed 18 year old at the mortgage company who can do nothing more than press buttons on a computer and who has no life experience yet treats you like you have the plague because your life has made a u turn, then yes I feel bloody resentful.

 

Also, I know of 19 and 20 years olds who haven't a clue that there is a recession going on. They live at home with mum and dad and spend most weekends clubbing and going to the trendy mall to max out their credit cards on designer gear. How we ever get it through their thick heads that they will still be paying for that designer handbag in 10 years I really don't know. I suppose like all people of that age they will only learn the hard way - through experience.

 

Well done DeRichleau for realising that life must go on. Yes, the world is basically kind and caring, but that large pit of darkness and despair can be horribly difficult to overcome. As you have read, some of us know exactly how you felt but somehow we don't end up 'doing the deed'. I hope that for us the long haul back to some form of normality is worth it all. I'm not sure that CAG realises the role it plays in giving the glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel and I will be ever grateful to the people who have taken the time, both in threads and by pm, to give me advice, moral support and a virtual shoulder to cry on.

[Desperate Daniella]

You've summed it up so well, Mrs E. I never in a million years thought I would be in this position at my age. In 2005 I had a good credit rating, now I couldn't get credit at all.

 

Like you, I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't found CAG.

 

Big hugs to you all,

 

DDxx

[DeRichleau]

Although word of mouth is the best advertisment, I have noticed that 90% of Caggers have stumbled accross this site, and I wish there was some way of reaching more people who are in financial despair. I wonder if an approach to the Samaritans might be acceptable. They have strict rules of behaviour, and are not allowed to interfere with a callers intent, (i.e. if you have made your mind up then it is your decision) however if you have an active suicide caused by debt, and a visit to this site might change their mind for the better, then it has to be worth a try. Maybe the site team have an opinion or policy.

[Desperate Daniella]

That is a fantastic idea.

[Mrs E Blackadder]

I never in a million years thought I would be in this position at my age. In 2005 I had a good credit rating, now I couldn't get credit at all.

 

Like you, I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't found CAG.

 

 

I'm exactly the same. I thought at my age I would be having a little peace in my life, but instead every day seems an endless struggle against organisations that just won't listen. I'm not expecting them to be charities, just to show a human side that doesn't revolve around you having to fit into some little box on their computer.

 

3 years ago my credit rating was excellent. Now I can just about borrow a fiver from my mum! I have managed to get a credit card recently, one with a horribly high interest rate. However, I don't have it to enjoy - it is to help me rebuild my defunct credit rating. I spend no more than £20 every couple of months and have it set up so that the whole lot has to be paid back at once. This stops me from using it unecessarily, although experience has now taught me that I really don't need a credit card to enjoy life. I have deliberately not made a mental note of my pin number, so can't use it when out shopping and I keep it for the odd internet purchase.

 

Nunny, I feel like you that something has to be done and some sort of 'consumer action front' is out there just waiting to stick its oar in. Do you really think we could make a difference by making some kind of stance?

[Desperate Daniella]

This is it, we're dealing with rude, obnoxious little numbers who live at home with mum and dad and go clubbing - not people who have lived in the real world. They don't have a human side. My last run in with Barclays over the fact that I wanted an overdraft which would cost £50 a year plus interest, instead of £22 a week for using their reserve, resulted in this snotty little jobsworth telling me she "didn't even need a reserve." and I couldn't have one. So I can borrow £250 if I pay over £90 a month if I need it, but not at a cheaper rate than that. I mean, seriously, how are they are allowed to get away with this? She didn't know what 'usury' meant.

 

The one before her said I had to pay the £22 a week if I "choose" to use the reserve. No, you to**er, I HAD to use it.

 

Nunny, if you are close to London and have your eviction I'll turn up and I'm sure other caggers would too, and we can call the press.

 

DDxx

[DeRichleau]

We really need some input from the site team here. We may have hit upon something that is very necessary. Most debt issues can be summed up by one simple phrase I think. 'Cant afford to survive without a loan, cant afford to survive if you repay it' Most people want a basic secure lifestyle, with enough and a little to spare, not riches or a celeb. lifestyle, and the Banks have recognised this rubbed their hands together and exploited it. There will be a reckoning one day. Not some wild left wing revolution, but a swift financial readjustment, that will shake the corridoors of power, and scare the fat cats to death. I would like to think we have seen the beginnings now. Us Brits put up with so much and then dig our heels in. Look at the Poll Tax all those years ago. When the reckoning comes, I hope the ghosts of those hounded to death will haunt those responsible until their dying day.

[Crapstone]

I'm fed up of reading about people that have defrauded their employer, state benefits, burgled houses or robbed people in the street. And all they get is a slap on the wrist and miserly sum to repay. Pretty much same as the bankers and politicians ...............

 

In the duration we, as normal people, are expected to carry the can. Instead of defaulting on a regulated loan I'd have been better off walking into the bank with a gun and demanding the money..spending it and then facing whatever came my way.

 

It's about time that the gov. recognised those that are too 'rich' to qualify for help but are living on the breadline by working instead of scrounging.

 

Try to better yourself..buy a house and free up social housing ..what do you get in return when money is tight? Try to start a business and put people in jobs...what do you get in return when money is tight? Nothing but debt collectors and bailiffs. Better off staying in a council house, not working and mugging people to fund a 52" TV or shoplift it. Or be a politician....

 

And I'm sure we would'nt mind if we'd had something to show for it and were living a lavish lifestyle instead of just making ends meet.

 

If it's been ruled that benefit overpayments can't be reclaimed unless it's fraud then I see no reason why debt shouldn't be, if proven that the funds were used for daily living and any increase in the limits were approved by the lender and not the consumer. If only....

 

Both my OH and myself have been driven close to doing silly things......My OH meant his and the last time being from payments I didn't think he'd made even though he swore he had.

 

He had made them..the company SPML/Capstone denied all knowledge ..but it was there in black and white on the SAR screen dumps they sent. They didn't cash them, return them or send any letters to explain why they weren't processed.

 

I do think we are a stupid nation and need to stand up and speak out more instead of putting up and shutting up. What are we so afraid of? Is it just being idle or not being educated enough to argue?

[nunnyrose]

"Nunny, if you are close to London and have your eviction I'll turn up and I'm sure other caggers would too, and we can call the press."

DD - I'm just south of gatwick - if it really does come to eviction (refusing to believe that at the moment) I would be truely happy to have a caggers gathering on the day - not because I think it will save my house but to get the word out there that this is real, this is happening to respectful people and to let as many people know that we are here to support them through probably the most difficult thing they will ever have to deal with. Is there anybody on here at the moment that has an eviction date? if so they may well be glad of this kind of support.

DeRich -I think you're right, we need input from site team

Mrs B - on Human Rights

Article 21.

 

• (1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
  
• (2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
  
• (3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
  

I'm just a dumb blonde (ok, grey) but dont they governments tell us what they want rather than the other way round?

[DeRichleau]

We are hurt angry and confused. This is the first time (I think)there has been a moral argument on this site. The morality of the Financial systems could well be a minefield for the site team, with the potential for libellous or defamatory comments etc. etc. but there is such strong feeling here and elswhere that I can see some sort of league against financial exploitation emerging. The motives have to be pure though. Justice rather than revenge. How do you answer the questions that will emerge?

1. It's not the banks/creditors fault if you lose your job

2.The world does not owe you a living.

3.If you are not making it ,it's your own fault not ours.

4.Why did you buy that house if you cant afford it?

All this will be trotted out as it regularly is on TV and Radio shows. The answer for me is very simple. We have had control taken away from us, by the stroke of a pen. There is no point in climbing the ladder, if they own the ladder and can take it away when they feel like it. There needs to be a viable alternative to the Financial system. We are beginning to see the emergence of credit unions and a bartering system for tradesmen. We are also beginning to see the re-emergence of nationalisation. I am old enough to remember the squeals of pain from the Fat Cats when the Wilson Government raised that subject. I can remember the full page adverts taken out in the press to fight against nationalisation. I can also remember the financial de-stabilisation of the Wilson Govt, and the later row about the revelations made by Peter Wright in the Spycatcher Book. The same this has happened only it is the ordinary man and woman in the street who has been destabilised. The first move to take back control is here on this site. Well I feel better for getting that off my chest-not too sanctimonious I hope.