Debenhams/Santander Cards-Viking Collection Services LTD

[Huff&Puff]

Try the local library, they should have a scanner.

[Bazooka Boo]

Ignore Viking and them telling you they want all or nothing, that is an unlawful request, and they will never admit to saying that in front of a judge!

 

If all you can manage to pay them, is the token payment of £1 a month, then do that, until such time that you are able to post up a clearer image of the agreement they sent you.

 

All you need is their bank details and you can set up a standing order, DO NOT set up a Direct Debit with them under any circumstances.

[Nicola85]

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it. I've managed to get a hold of a relatives LG Viewty wich has macro mode. I hope these images of the CCA are of more help.

 

 

 

 

[Nicola85]

Bump

[Nicola85]

Sorry *Bump* again.

[cerberusalert]

If both of those are the front & reverse of the same document I'm afraid it would be seen as enforceable if it contains the right to cancel (which I can't see).

 

Have you received a Default Notice yet?

[Nicola85]

The Images are just the front of the agreement. The right to cancel box is contained within the terms and conditions which were sent seperate from the agreement. The CAA I was sent was an A4 piece of paper with a 4x5 inch copy of the agreement. The back of the A4 piece of paper was blank and the terms and conditions for it were sent out seperate so I have no idea if they are the right ones for this agreement.

 

Is it still enforceable without the pescribed terms i.e repayments? Or are they allowed to put them in the terms and conditions?

 

I have been sent loads of documents by the DCA. They just say the usual like this debt isint going to go away so pay us the money you owe us and if I don't they will take me to court etc.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Nicola85

[Huff&Puff]

The prescribed terms should be within the 4 corners of the page with your signature on.

[Nicola85]

I don't mean to be a pain but I would really like to move on with this. Is there someone who can tell me If my agreement is legally enforceable in court? It would really help so I can get started on the best course of action.

 

The agreement I recieved was a Microfiche.

 

The terms and conditions sent seperate from the agreement are current and not those used when I signed the agreement.

 

The 'right to cancel' box and the repayments are contained within the terms and conditions.

[cerberusalert]

On the face of things, what they have produced could be seen as enforceable. However if it went to court you could bring them to 'Strict Proof' where they would have to produce the original agreement... not a microfilche copy.

 

If the T&Cs they have supplied do not pertain to the CCA at its inception then it makes the CCA unenforceable. Send Viking this & see what their response is;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

[Nicola85]

I recieved a letter on Monday from Viking stating that it was more than likely that since they can't get payment from me they would be passing back my account back to Santander cards who will probably take legal action. Is there anything I should do? Should I start to worry yet?

[Bazooka Boo]

No nothing at all to worry about, wait until the OC starts sending you correspondence then take it from there.

 

What they are saying, when you read between the lines, is that they have no evidence to legally extort money from you, so will off load this lemon back to the idiots that sold it...

[Nicola85]

Thanks, Bazooka Boo. Is this what happens with most peoples debts? Debt Collector buy the debt from Original Creditor then the Debt Collector finds that they have no legal evidence to take money from people so they sell it back to the Original Creditor? How often does the Original Creditor persue legal action? Just thinking that if a Debt Collector has not got enough evidence then it's not very likley that the Original Creditor will have any more.

[Huff&Puff]

The credit industry themselves are (privately) admitting that somewhere around 80% of pre-2006 debts are unenforceable. From people's experiences on here I'd put it even higher than that.

[Bazooka Boo]

How often does the Original Creditor pursue legal action? Just thinking that if a Debt Collector has not got enough evidence then it's not very likely that the Original Creditor will have any more.

 

What normally happens is the the OC will use their own in-house collection agency first, for instance if you ran up a debt with the Halifax:D then you can expect to get letters from Blair Oliver & Scott, which is an acronym for Bank Of Scotland. Hence Halifax using their own in-house DCA.

 

Then to off load these 'Bad' debts, they will sell them in 'bulk' to other DCA's for a knock down price, and has been reported, for as little as 6p in the pound!

This then frees up the OC from having this Bad debt around their necks, and the rest of the money they are still owed is paid for by their insurance, so they don't lose anything.

 

The DCA who has bought your £1000 debt for say £160 will tell you that you owe them £1000, but are able to offer you a once in a lifetime offer to pay the debt off and can reduce that amount to say £800, this is how these companies make their profits and a why they are able to remain in business.

 

So rest assured that asking for the CCA, and then being told by that DCA that they have sent your file back to the OC is clarification that they bought your debt in bulk and have not been given the full file on your account.

 

And if they 'close' their files, it is safe to say that there is no such agreement and it will go quiet for a while, until such time as the OC flogs it on again to another DCA.

[Nicola85]

Today I recieved court papers. I'm not quite sure what to do. I know that I have to either deny or accept that I owe the debt. The problem I have is that YES I do owe the debt but I have no money in which to pay it with. If I accept that I owe the debt then I'll recieve a CCJ and I have no money to pay the CCJ. If I deny the debt then it's more than likely they can prove I owe them money and I'll still end up with a CCJ. I was never trying to get out of paying my debt. I just hit a bad financial patch and then things sarted to go down hill from there. I've tried talking to theese people and come to some sort of a payment arrangement but I'm not getting anywhere. Is there anyone who can give me some advice? Thanks so much. Nicola.

[Bazooka Boo]

Have you kept all correspondence relating to your payment proposals?

 

If you have stated to them that you will pay X amount per month/week and they have refused then, they will not have a leg to stand on in court, the judge will simply tell them that all they will get from now on is the amount you stated that you could afford, and if thats £1 a week, then tough on them.

 

Is it an SD you have received? If so you have 14 days in which to acknowledge it, and you can even do it online, so are able to take it right up to the 11th hour.

 

It's a shame you can't post it up for Cerbs to have a look at, does it refer to the document as a Statutory Demand?

[Nicola85]

As far as I can tell, it's a Claim form and a response pack. I'm suppost to fill in one of the two forms. One is to deny the other to accept. From what I can tell they are real papers they have been stamped by the court and it has a reference number. It's not a statutory demand.

 

What I really would like to ask is can I be issued with a CCJ if I don't have a wage and I don't owne a home or car?

[lilly white]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/241827-legal-action-how-start.html

 

yes you can be given a CCJ SO HAVE A READ

[lilly white]

MODS CAN WE MOVED THIS TO LEGAL FORUMS IF OP AGREEDS.

 

 

What are the poc

[Nicola85]

I think I'll just fill in the form and say I accept the debt. I can't fill in the one to deny as I have no defence as Yes I do owe the debt. So I'll just fill it in and tell them I have no wages and I don't have any outgoings and see what happens from there as they are never going to get any money out of me I have none and I doubt I'll have any for the forseable future. They can't take what I have not got.

[lilly white]

i do think that you should defend

As it has gone to court it would wise to go through the act as you will be in a better position in regards to controll.

 

However to you

 

lilly white

Edited January 23, 2010 by lilly white

[Huff&Puff]

I agree with Lilly, you really have nothing to lose by defending, you won't end up any worse off even if you lose.

[workaholic duck]

Just read through your thread and can't see any reply re default notice? Have you had one? Also, an assignment? Does it refer to these docs in the court claim? If so, you need to see them.

I'm going through a similar case. I sent a CPR request to the solicitors who came back with ...'don't have in their possession, are in process of retrieving...etc'. Then go on to give me extra time...etc!!! Do NOT fall for this. They try to get a CCJ by default.

 

Please try to find the strength to defend yourself. You've nothing to lose. Ask to see all docs they refer to now and file an embarrassed defence in the meantime. Online is very straightforward. Then it's up to them to prove they have a legitimate claim.

Good luck!

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes, it might be wise to send them a CPR request, I understand that you admit you owe this money but I would still defend, as you really have nothing to lose, I owe circa 55K and even though I do know I owe that money, I will defend myself at every turn.

 

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