Cabot/Morgan & My Monument card case

[diddydicky]

that is ok as a NOA but not a DOA which although referring to a bulk purchase would still (IMO) need to identify your particular account as having been assigned from one to the other

 

i am sure i read threads where DOA were shot down

 

try pm/ing angrycat- i think she might have some info to help you with a dodgy DOA

[sir fussalot]

D.D.

 

I haven't altered the above notice

 

I couldn't understand how you thought it was "acceptable"

 

That is EXACTLY as it came.

 

 

 

fussey

[diddydicky]

oops- sorry - thought you had deliberately blanked your details out!!

[sir fussalot]

Diddy,

 

Talk about take the wind out of my sails..

 

when you said it was O.K.

 

Then I kept "thinking" and realised what

 

had happened..:grin:

 

More armour, eh.

 

Fussey

[patrickq1]

sorry i did nt notice this was a NOA ooops then their is help with that from VJohn he has just blown HFO out of the water on that score i am sure vj has looked in on this sorry DD i know what you meant just that we go about things in a oppisite round about way LOL

as it is i always appreciate your help and always sound advice and i think fussy agrees as he has acted on your advice and cut out the geuswork as it serves no purpose....

the NOA should be simple to work out will come back later

[sir fussalot]

Hiya all,

Latest Development

 

I Sar'd Barclaycard, who took over Monument card, just received their

reply.

 

 

This WAS SENT s.d. and they received it 04/03/10. i sent it to London

office (Churchill place). Their 40 days are up 11th April.

 

Now it turns out that I had a Barclaycard account that I finished in 2007.

 

Surely they should have details about that account, (re; the money laundering act, requiring details to be held for so long after the account is closed.) or does the S.A.R request only apply to the A/C I quoted. ( Monument )?

 

puzzled. sir fuss.

 

I thought it was a request for ANY details held on me.

Edited April 8, 2010 by sir fussalot

[cymruambyth]

In your SAR did you just specify the Monument account or did you state any other accounts not listed but held by you?

Give them 40 days complain to authorities and you will get £70 taken off any outstanding debts!

[sir fussalot]

Hiya All,

 

Case was yesterday, what a fiasco....

 

will post all details up later.. Hearing Adjourned.

 

Cabots only claiming ARREARS. as "Their Man", has looked at the dictionary definition of arrears and concludes..

 

" It means any money owing. ".

 

So their plan looks like, waiting for the debt/repayments to fall behind,

Then claim them to be arrears.

 

THUS, no D.N. required.

 

I argued the point with the D.J. that Arrears in context of the CCA

did not qualify as the legal arrears in the case.

 

D.J. did not want to know and accepted their argument for no D.N. needed

 

will post full details later... ( talk about Biased Judges. )

 

Sir Fuss

[BeauBrummie]

Hiya All,

 

Case was yesterday, what a fiasco....

 

will post all details up later.. Hearing Adjourned.

 

Cabots only claiming ARREARS. as "Their Man", has looked at the dictionary definition of arrears and concludes..

 

" It means any money owing. ".

 

So their plan looks like, waiting for the debt/repayments to fall behind,

Then claim them to be arrears.

 

THUS, no D.N. required.

 

I argued the point with the D.J. that Arrears in context of the CCA

did not qualify as the legal arrears in the case.

 

D.J. did not want to know and accepted their argument for no D.N. needed

 

will post full details later... ( talk about Biased Judges. )

 

Sir Fuss

 

 

Hi Sir Fuss,

 

What a load of bol.....ks

 

Actual meaning is :

 

That which is behind in payment, or which remains unpaid, though due; esp. a remainder, or balance which remains due when some part has been paid; arrearage; - commonly used in the plural, as, arrears of rent, wages, or taxes.

 

As usual a Cabot play on words to hoodwink the Judiciary into thinking they know best.

 

How did "your man" from Cabot know how much was due?

 

If he is saying that all is due then where is the proof - has he worked out how quickly in YEARS and MONTHS it would take to pay off the Arrears at the minimum monthly payment- if not then how can he prove that he is not demanding payments in advance? and therefore breaking the terms of the agreement himself.

 

So many holes in that - another thought - at some point Cabot would have demanded the full amount of due balance? that is where they then assume that the payments would stop and your debt discharged if you see what I mean.

 

Im sure somewhere you will have letter from them that will ask for the full balance and will make it very clear that it is not for the arrears.

 

Beau

Edited May 7, 2010 by BeauBrummie

[Hadituptohere]

Cant wait to read what Morans have come up with this time, you say the case was adjurned hope theres still time to blow holes in there nonsence

 

 

Hadituptohere

[Hadituptohere]

Sir Fuss

Do you have the Raw Data that Morgans send out in responce to SAR and probably in there bundle of account? if so doesnt it say something along the lines of

 

'200, auto, 00/00/2006 00.00, Error during calculation days since default notice, date date of default notice is not known for this case, thus making calculation is invalid.

 

in there?? I know mine and a couple of others it does, worth a look

 

Hadituptohere

[BeauBrummie]

Sir Fuss

Do you have the Raw Data that Morgans send out in responce to SAR and probably in there bundle of account? if so doesnt it say something along the lines of

 

'200, auto, 00/00/2006 00.00, Error during calculation days since default notice, date date of default notice is not known for this case, thus making calculation is invalid.

 

in there?? I know mine and a couple of others it does, worth a look

 

Hadituptohere

 

My recent SAR revealed a similar incidence where the Default Date is not known - and then later on in the list all of a sudden there are calculations that start to appear.

 

I feel a nice letter coming on to Morgans asking them to calculate how the payments arrived at the full balance at the time of the issue of their claim.

 

Very valid point Hadituptohere

 

Beau

Edited May 8, 2010 by BeauBrummie
Extra info added

[cymruambyth]

Just a thought are there any good mathematicians that I can PM details with? (Sorry Sir F don't wish to hi jack) I have the same information in my SAR but I do have a defective DN with a date.

[sir fussalot]

Sir Fuss

Do you have the Raw Data that Morgans send out in responce to SAR and probably in there bundle of account? if so doesnt it say something along the lines of

 

'200, auto, 00/00/2006 00.00, Error during calculation days since default notice, date date of default notice is not known for this case, thus making calculation is invalid.

 

 

Hadit,

 

practically word for word, I was going to challenge on, "How could you calculate interest etc, when the info' was not known"

 

This "phrase" date not known crops up regularly, but they still managed to put on "penalty interest".

 

will post up all the details later .Have to go to work now.

 

Beau, I think I must have had your D.J. he accepted several points after being told by Cabrots man what they meant, then replying, " Yes, I think

you are correct...

 

Not very reassuring

 

fussey.

[Hadituptohere]

Not only the interest but default amounts are incorrect which are the arrears. If Cabots own computerised system cannot make the calculation how can anyone else????????

 

Another one down to the Judge Lottery

 

Hadituptohere

[Hadituptohere]

Cant wait to read what Morans have come up with this time, you say the case was adjurned hope theres still time to blow holes in there nonsence

 

 

Hadituptohere

 

 

Your keeping us in suspence :-|

[Dotty50]

Hi

 

Did anyone get any balance information within the SAR?

 

I have sheets of payments/merchandise interest/cash interest and their wonderful payment break plan but nothing showing what the balance was for the duration.

[sir fussalot]

Hiya All, so Sorry I could not post any earlier. Mad three days at work.

didn't finish til late last night.

 

Went To Court Adjourned again.

Went in, different judge. went to sit by judge, my wife next to me.

 

No, Mrs Fusslot sits there, you sit there. he snapped.. (its my wifes case).

 

I stood up, and said sir, may I speak for my wife, she's still ill and.....

 

NO YOU MAY NOT, now sit down and keep quiet, That was a good start, my nerves completeley shot..

 

Mrs Fussalot was not well and wanted to "give up" and agree to anything

from Cabrot. I persuaded her to be there as she would not (and could not ) be able to say anything.

When he asked the first question to my wife, there was a horrible pause,

I then asked, as my wife was ill can I please answer for her.

 

The D.J. took off his glasses and sighed, Mr Fussalot. I do not like people trying to be lawyers, it does not help, and it does not do your wifes case any good to be represented by someone untrained.

 

However carry on.

 

Of course by this time I am "all over the place"

 

Well what do you think is the matter with the agreement? he asked.

 

I said, well it is not an properley executed agreement, and as such it

precludes the cou....... Thank you Mr. Fussalot, the D.J. hissed.

I don't want a speech just answer the question.

 

I said for the start, this is no more than an application form. An application form can be an agreement Mr. Fussalot. Helooked at the

 

opposition, and said I assume thats what you are saying.

 

Yes sir. he replied.

 

Why would this not be acceptable then Mr. Fusslot?

 

It was at this Point I couldn't believe what was happening, I just wanted to run.

 

I said it doesn't have the prescribed terms within the agreement.

 

What are the prescribed terms Mr. |Fussalot?

 

Well for one the number of repayments. Two there..... Just aminuet

 

He interrupted, lets have a look in the terms and conditions.

 

Thats another thing I said they are not the original terms and conditions.

 

Mr. fussalot, I will not tell you again, I only want you to answer the question, not to keep interupting.

 

But they are of no use, they are not the original t&c's.

 

Getting anoyed, he said how do you know they are not

 

Because. late penalty charges state £18. we have never had £18 for L.P's

 

from the third statement we have proof that the L.P's have allways been at £24.00 also fro the S.A.R. req from Barclaycard they list £24 from "day 1".

Mr. Fussalot. has it never occurred to you that the charges may have "gone up".

 

No sir, to do that they must give 30 days notice to vary the charges.

 

AND if you look in the "RAW DATA". entry for X/X/X. following my CCA request, it says T&c's used.

Sept '06, when the a/c was opened in 2002.

 

The D.J. then looked at Cabots man who said" It is not necessarrilly the T&c;s used from that date.

 

The D.J. made a note of this.

 

He cited the Manchester case as to the T&c's can be on seperate forms.

 

I then told him that, when I asked Cabot for a CCA request several years earlier, they had sent yet another different set of tc's.

 

Can you produce them the D.J. asked. not here. I said I didnt bring them

 

Mr. Fussalot why on earth did you not bring them to court?

 

I said that as I hadn't entered them as evidence before I didn't think they would be able to be used.

 

He threw his arms in the air.

 

So we need an adjournment for you to produce the original T&C's.

 

No I don't have the originals.

 

He flew into a rage you have just told me you have the originals. he shouted.

 

I was flabbergasted, I said no sir, I said Cabots supplied me...... Mr.Fussalot you have just told me you do have the originals yes or no?

 

I said Im sorry if I gave you the wrong.....Mr.Fussalot I will ask you once more. "Do you have CONFLICTING T&C's yes or no".

 

I said yes.

 

He threw his pen on the desk,. I said but they are from Cabots.

 

must go to work now, back soon

[sir fussalot]

Hiya, i'll continue.

 

I said I'm sorry but you have just asked me if I have conflicting T&C's, and I do from Cabot,

 

I am not interested in those he barked. They don't matter.

 

Now do you or do you not have the originals?

 

I said no. then he asked "Cabots man" to confirm whether or not they would be the original.

 

He said he would look into it for the next hearing.

 

Then the D.J. asked what else I didn't agree with.

 

I told him about the, "interest rate" not correct. he said it didn't matter as it was on the T&c's and that it could be varied.

 

I said the dates of repayments, frequency, timing etc.

He just looked thro' the terms & c's to each point and said "they are all answered here."

 

He said, " so thats the agreement decided. I will not go back to this at the next hearing, this is finished, do you understand?".

So I had to agree.

 

Then he asked if that was it. I said no sir. well what else do you think is wrong.

 

I said the Notice of Assignment, I haven't recieved one.

 

So he asked Cabot how do you send a Notice of Assignment out.

 

He told him that it would be "computer generated" when they took over the account.

 

The D.J. asked if anyone needed to "press a button" to send it.Cabot said NO, it was automatic.

 

Yes then I will accept that it would have been sent then......

 

So I asked about the Deed of Assignment the one that was "redacted"

 

or in other words completely blanked out. Showing no proof whatsoever that it had a connection with my a/c.

 

Suprise Suprise the D.J. agreed with ME.....it was completely useless

and had been redacted a "little over keenly"

 

So as the case was going to be adjourned could Cabots supply one next time that had alittle more information on it.

 

Right is that it now Mr. Fussalot.

 

No sir.

 

He then actually groaned.

 

I asked about the Default notice. the D.J. looked at Cabot.

 

Cabot said, well sir for the reasons already given no D.N notice was required to be sent by either, Cabot or Monument

 

I asked, Can I ask Mr Cabot a question, was a D.N notice sent.

 

He replied he couldn't answer for Monument as he didn't know, BUT as they were claiming only the arrears, it wasn't necessary anyway.

 

I then asked how do you get the ARREARS to be the same as the capital

sum total. THANK you Mr. Fussalot. The D.J. iterrupted, I am conducting this court not you....

 

He looked at Cabot and said "well". ( I thought, this'll be good )

 

Cabot replied that" the dictionary definition for arrears was, any money owed or not paid, that should have been".

 

Guess what the D.J. said............

 

Correct.. very well, O.K.

 

That was it. I said So,as Monument did not send a D.N. notice the account had been unlawfully terminated

 

And unlawfull rescission means I can claim damages.

 

Thank you Mr. Fussalot be quiet.

 

Then he looked at Cabot, is this correct has the account been terminated

I could sense the dissapointment in his question.

 

This time Cabot got flustered, rummaging thro his papers he said he was not aware that the account had been terminated.

 

The D.J. said how do you know it has been terminated.

 

I said the letter from Monument saying " the arrears of £150, has not been paid, this account has now been closed."

 

s.f.

[sir fussalot]

I had told the D.J that the previous court order had told Cabots that the

 

original agreement had to be produced at the hearing. along with the D.N.

 

and the Notice of Assignment

 

He just said that was the other hearing, and Not his.

 

He made reference to the Manchester case, and Rankines.

 

The other judge told me to send in a Skeleton argument with the points of law I was questioning or relying on. But, not to quote case after case and have a long list of rulings.

 

This one complained that I had no defence, and the case (for the defence) SHOULD HAVE BEEN THROWN OUT.

 

i HAVE BEEN TO (a few ) courts, but this one was the worst.

thank goodness they are not all like the D.J. I had.

 

I really trhink he had made his mind up that we had lost. until the last point.

 

But if we have lost. (next hearing to be announced) they can only claim £150. arrears.

 

would they still be able to claim their costs on top of that.?

 

currently running at £2,500.00p

 

s.f.

[BeauBrummie]

 

I really trhink he had made his mind up that we had lost. until the last point.

 

Yes, Sirfuss - I got the the same feeling after no more than about 10 mIns of my hearing

But if we have lost. (next hearing to be announced) they can only claim £150. arrears.

 

Is it your view that the DJ accepted that there was no DN and the account was terminated unlawfully?

 

would they still be able to claim their costs on top of that.?

 

currently running at £2,500.00p

 

It may be worth investigating - not sure, but I can tell you that I have asked to be allowed to counterclaim against the original claim, should I win on appeal. Obviously my costs would counter their costs so to speak.

 

s.f.

 

Keep your chin up and keep digging - vjjohn has alot of info on the way that these accounts were assigned from Barclaycard - ref s36 of the Companies act.

 

Beau

[Hadituptohere]

Hi sir fus and beau

 

well done for getting throught that ordeal sir fus, lets hope that they can only claim the arrears 150.00, cant see them getting costs when their poc claim the full balance? someone will correct me if im wrong.

 

Beau any chance of a link to Vjohns info, thanks

 

 

Hadituptohere

[BeauBrummie]

Just another angle to counter Cabot charge that no DN is required. I assume you do have the original Providian T&C's as provided by Cabot!!

 

Look at Page 6 S16 (i) "Early Repayment"

 

Think that sums up the required action for termination!!

 

Hadituptohere,

 

This scenario is where the DOA was only signed by one person contrary to S36 Companies Act 2006, so it depends on the dates of assigment.

 

I think Vjohn would accept a PM request for the relevant info if its relevant to this case.

 

Beau

[Hadituptohere]

Sir fuss, beau

 

Do you both have the NOA from barclays to cabot? I have mine and its about 30 pages mainly made up of blanked/marker out pages? Just looking at mine page 26, schedule 5, Eligible accounts:

 

7 'Eligible accounts are accounts which have been originated, maintained and serviced in all material respects in compliance with all Applicable Licences, consents, approval, authorisations, registrations or declarations required to be obtained, effected or given by the vendor or any agents acting on its behalf including in particular but without limitation, the Cosumer Credit Act 1974, the data Protection Act 1998, and the Administration of justice Act 1970.'

 

Then

 

9. which are not Uncollectable Accounts

 

Of course uncollectable accounts has been blacked out totally

 

Then theres this which I think are foolishgirls words:

 

The point is that if the account has been absolutely assigned, the agreement has been terminated. Your agreement is not with Cabot or any other DCA that wants to claim it, it's with the OC & the OC cannot assign it (with all the rights & duties etc!!) unless it has been terminated. Now they have a choice, either

(a) the account is in default & they send a DN under S87 & then terminate or

(b) the account is not in default but they just feel like terminating anyway in which case they have to give you notice

 

The arrears argument only comes into play when they've issued a DN (i.e.arrears at date of DN) or when it's been terminated & if it's been terminated, it has to done as above.

 

 

Maybe something there

 

Hadituptohere

[vjohn82]

9. which are not Uncollectable Accounts

 

Of course uncollectable accounts has been blacked out totally

 

I too have an account sale agreement between Barclaycard and HFO Capital where the uncollectable account portion has been totally blanked out.

 

I'm going to be looking applying for a court order to get this portion released.

 

 

Then theres this which I think are foolishgirls words:

 

The point is that if the account has been absolutely assigned, the agreement has been terminated. (This is correct) Your agreement is not with Cabot or any other DCA that wants to claim it, it's with the OC & the OC cannot assign it (with all the rights & duties etc!!) unless it has been terminated. Now they have a choice, either

(a) the account is in default & they send a DN under S87 & then terminate or

(b) the account is not in default but they just feel like terminating anyway in which case they have to give you notice

 

The arrears argument only comes into play when they've issued a DN (i.e.arrears at date of DN) or when it's been terminated & if it's been terminated, it has to done as above.

 

 

Maybe something there

 

Hadituptohere