landlorn/tennants and the judge

[tillym]

Hi,

 

Ok this may be a long storey but i would really epreciate any help and advice from anyone.

On the 1st March this year we rented a home from a couple who were getting into the property game,Me,My wife and 3 kids all moved to the property on the above date,the deposit and a months rent in advance was paid and everything was signed by the landlady.3 months down the line the landlady and her boy friend split up.the landlady wants her house back,a section 21 was served and expired on the 1st September we later found out that the deposit was not paid in to the goverment protection scheme,we found out that the landlady was going for an accelerated eviction,our solicitor told us that she could not do it as she has not paid the bond money into the scheme and the landlady could be prosecuted for purgery.anyway we got a letter from the courts telling us what has happened and this morning we received an eviction notice from the court,we explained the situation to the judge on the reply forms about the non payment of the bond money,anyhow the judge has went in favour of the landlady as she has told the courts that it was her boyfriend who took all the money and sorted everything out for the tennancy,i now have 4 weeks from the day to find a property and the local council are not very helpful.

I would really epreciate any help or advice on this as me and the wife are very close to the breaking point.

Many Thanks

Michael.

[tillym]

also i would like to add that the property is in the name of the landlady only and all documents were signed between myself and the landlady only.

[Emma1973]

Blimey, someone found a sympathetic judge! Unfortunately because you were not in court theres no knowing what evidence she presented or said so cant comment on it.

 

Seriously you need to be done the council re-housing department tomorrow with the Possesion Order. Now thats been granted they have to take notice, they will tell you to stay there as at the end of the 4 weeks she cant just turn up and change the lock. She has to go back to court and get an order for the bailiffs to evict you. But in my experience the council will usually rehouse you well before this.

 

The deposit situation is now a seperate issue, and despite the court judgement you may still be able to sue for this.

[Kentish Lass]

This judge did not know what he/she was doing. A s.21 notice is invalid if the deposit has not been protected. It should not matter what the LL said in court. The notice itself was not correct.

 

It is also totally ridiculous to say it is ok for her not to comply with the legislation regarding deposit protection because she has a rotten boyfriend!!

 

This whole thing makes the English legal system look stupid!! It is a disgrace. Unbelievable! (Sorry - very cross about your situation!)

 

As Emma says, the process of eviction takes time and LL has to go back to the court to get the order enforced. Hopefully the council will have helped you out by then, but in the meantime it would not hurt to have a chat with Shelter who have a great deal of experience in these matters.

 

The other matter of course is the unprotected deposit. I suggest you write to each of the 3 deposit protection schemes and check that your deposit was not protected. (They will write back, so you will then have written evidence that it was not.)

 

I would say you should then sue her for the deposit + 3xdeposit, BUT, these claims are no longer being treated as small claims and therefore you could, if you lose, be liable for considerable costs. Whilst I think you have an open and shut case, I think you have enough on your plate at the moment without adding to your problems. However, once you are settled, and if your deposit has not been returned to you, you might think about going ahead.

 

In the meantime - you don't say if you have actually received the deposit back. Assuming not, write to LL and say that unless you receive your deposit in full within the next [7] days you will sue her for deposit +3xdeposit for non-compliance with the deposit protection legislation. Hopefully this will prompt her to return it. If not, come back to us and we will try and help.

[tillym]

The landlord has always stated that our deposit will be returned when we leave the property,we have advised her that we can claim compensation fron her as she stated that her solicitor has told her that will be dealt with at a later date!!

The letter of eviction from the court also states that she is not really entitled to repay me the deposit as her ex boyfriend took control of all the money.I also received a copy of the letter sent to the court by our landlord and basically it is a whole load of lies stating that we never paid the deposit to her and it was paid to the boy friend(which it wasnt).She had signed the tennancy agreement when i handed her the money.What really annoys me and the wife is that the law is there to protect us as tennants and this so called district judge has totally over ruled that law and seems to of taken pitty on this woman,so why on earth was this law introduced?It now seems as though all my neighbours are against me and my family as none of them speak now and other children in the street are saying to my children that we are supposed to of been moved out by now.I have the option to see my solicitor again to fight this case but is it worth the extra expence to just delay it for a couple of months,i will need my money for when i do move and christmas is just around the corner.

Tomorrow we will contact the court and ask to see this district judge for an explanation on his decision,wether thats allowed or not but i feel that im owed an explanation at least.

The local council use a banding scheme but there is not very many houses available in my area.

[Kentish Lass]

This is all such nonsense. The owner of the house is the Landlord. It is the Landlord's responsibility to ensure that the deposit is protected. There are many Landlord's who are now having problems because their letting agents who were supposed to have protected the deposits have gone bankrupt or disappeared with the money but the law says it is the Landlord's responsibility and so it is. How can this judge talk such rubbish!! I simply do not understand how you can be made homeless and told you can't have your deposit back because the landlord has a lousy taste in men!!

 

Please, go and talk to Shelter. They have lawyers there who may be able to help you. I don't know if you can just go and see the judge. If you do get to see him, make sure you have every piece of evidence you can to prove your case and keep calm and do not lose your temper, even though you may feel you have a grievance. Did you pay the deposit by cheque? Perhaps you have your bank statement?

 

I really wish I could be of more help to you!

[raydetinu]

Who signed the AST agreement her or her boyfriend as landlord. you could always appeal the decision. ther is so much wrong with this judgement. You should have gone to court and used the contract and housing act re the deposit situation.

[tillym]

The owner of the property who is the landlady and myself signed the contract.

we contacted Shelter today as as Kentonlass stated we should do(thanks for that),we explained the situation and they could not believe what was going on,we are now waiting for the specialist people in our area to contact us to arrange an appointment.We also contacted our local council who we are keeping them up too date and also they could not believe the situation.

We asked the court if we could make an appointment to speak to the judge but that was a no no.

I still would love to know why the judge proceeded with the eviction notice known fine well that the section 21 was invalid???

If the judge has made this decision can he reverse the decision or when you appeal does it go to the same judge or a different judge?

I will keep you updated on the situation as the days go on.

[Aequitas]

Section 215 (1) of the Housing Act says:

 

If a tenancy deposit has been paid in connection with a shorthold tenancy, no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy at a time when—

(a) the deposit is not being held in accordance with an authorised scheme, or

(b) the initial requirements of such a scheme (see section 213(4)) have not been complied with in relation to the deposit.

 

The subsection is quite clear. If a deposit has been paid, it does not matter to whom, and has not been protected then no section 21 notice can be served until the deposit is protected. It seems the learned judge erred in the law.

 

Since I am not a litigator I am unsure how you can go about getting this put right. Obviously you can appeal, but you may be able to ask for the judgement to be put aside.

[raydetinu]

Defo, speak to the court asap and they will tell what forms to fill ( N244 ?)in to get it set aside for grounds stated. do it now!

[kathy918]

I would like to know how you get on with this as my landlady has won a possession order even though I went to great lengths in providing what I thought was an iron clad defence in writing. I.E. No TDS notification, no gas certificate for two years, failure to respond to a report over 13 months without a hot water supply to sinks and bath (due to faulty heater), correspondance from her without full contact details, a separate deposit paid to her agent by cheque not mentioned in tenancy agreement.

I may have been stupid, but I am a fast learner ready to fight and what do I get (a Judge who doesn't read!) My fault again? I guess relying on the courts to know the law is not something us lay people should do. I have learnt my lesson, will be applying for a stay, apparently it will cost me £75 to do it. THis time I will turn up in person to explain!!!?? to the judge.

[MrShed]

Kathy - possession order via Section 21 or Section 8?

[kathy918]

Section 21.

[tillym]

Hi,Just an update on the situation.

 

After consulting shelter who could not assist us as we were not entitled to legal aid we have decided to let the landlord get away with it for now.The cost would just be too much for solicitors to proceed with this matter as we will need all our money for moving.The judge states i have to be out this week(friday) but we have no option to prolong it ie the bailiffs.

Last week my landlord gained access with my permission and she would like to gain access again this weekend between 9am and 2pm as she wants the gas man to service the heating.Are my able to tell her that she can only gain access once every 4 weeks or did i read that wrong somewhere else??? if its for the gas man then can i tell her to come back during normal working hours ie mon-fri???

Or can i tell her that she cant come in but the gas man is ok to gaib access??

I just cant wait til i move from this house as the whole situationis so depressing.

Thanks

Michael.