order of sale by DCA( deadline next week)

[caller]

I had not defence my CCJ case (not thinking properly, not knowing this site, wrong advice from CAB) and resultly got a CCJ and straight away the DCA applied for CO (they don't bother to content/chase/nego with me about money at all at that stage, a long time).

 

Now I get a CCJ and A CO hanging at my head.

 

After the CO occer, they suddenly chased me harshly and keep changing what amout they wanted.

 

I lately asked them if they get any assignment evident from the OC since I don't have a clue who they are and the amout they chased after.

 

I might do it wrongly or I pushed some button, the DCA straight claiming they want the full payment and they would apply order of sale deadline next week.

 

I had gotten advice form my last thread (thanks for all the people here) and I had sent for my SAR file from my OC. I am still waiting for it. I plan to look into my file and then I might have a chance to set aside the CCJ and get rid of the CO. They could chase me in a new case and this time I (thanks for this site) could properly defense and get back my right.

 

The OC replied last week asking for copy of passport etc( **** they need a copy of the passport/driving licence and the signature on this must be the same as the signature for the Account. Could any one tell me : are you, by law, must sign every legal document at the same signature? my friend told me he sign in different ways for different banks cards to avoid fradulant), anyway I sent a copy and forgot to (too many things to struggle and my mind always not clear) temper proof the signature. Now I am very worry somehow someone could lift it off.

 

Anyway, what should I do now, I haven't get the SAR file back, should I send in the set aside form now OR I should ask the court to assign the monthly payment.

 

Would the above work as they are submitting 'order of sale ' at the same time? Actually to spend £75 now for the set aside at my situation it's a a huge mountain for me to climb.

 

What should I do now? Please any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks for advance.

[angry cat]

bump

[sequenci]

Who is the creditor?

How much is the debt?

Is the property jointly owned?

Have you children?

[caller]

Thanks sequenci,

 

Who is the creditor

a credit card

 

How much is the debt?

under £5000 with those late payment interest etc, panlty charges, solicitor fees etc

 

Is the property jointly owned?

solo under my name

 

Have you children?

I have a kid over 19 still financial rely on me

 

Thanks for your help

[teaboy2]

Don't send them anything with your signiture on it. they have no legal grounds in which to ask for such, all they need to produce the documents you asked for is the account details such as your name, address and date of birth, but in most cases just an account number or reference number will do.

 

it sounds to me that they are after your signature so they can attempt to recreate the original document and pass it of as a true copy of the origianal, when really it just a newly created document in which they have added the signature from your passport too and hoped to pass of as a true copy.

 

You DO NOT have to sign all legal documents with the same signature. there is no law that exists that says you do have too. that is why many CAG memebers will advise you not to sign any letters or documents that you are sending to creditors or DCA's, and instead to use a computerised font on your letters and documents.

[caller]

Thanks, teaboy2,

 

i am afraid I already done that as my mind was not clear at that moment. I feef horrible now. I first sent for the SAR file hoping to set aside the CCJ and CO, now the order of sale is hanging on my head and it seems you are right, the OC acted very suspeciously.

 

If they lifted my signature and provided this as a true copy of credit aggreement then I have no charge to set aside and it looks definitely I would lose my home.

 

I still waiting for my SAR file, should I do anything now to the OC, should I another letter to warn them it's illegal to lift my signature ect.

 

And at the same time, should I sent in set aside form and vary of payment(N245) at the same time.

 

I am very struggle with money therefore I am trying to save any penny. I would like to sent the N244 set aside form next week since the DCA claimed they would send the order of sale form to court next week. Would this help to hold them until the hearing of set aside.

 

Sorry so many things to ask... any advice wold be very appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

Caller

[caller]

Hi, need every advice for my N244 form

 

Coudl I write the reason for set aside as

 

1. the DCA did not have assignment letter, thus no legal right of the alleged debt
   
2. the DCA could not provide the credit agreement
   
3. I had not defended myself because I am badly advised by CAB (it's true)
   
4. No DN
   

The DCA had refused to give me a copy claiming that I had admitted the debt and therefore they are under no oblignation to give me one under consumer law. I would like to send another request (after hand in the N244) using CRP rule.

 

I have 2 major obstacle now beside the normal risk

 

The judge might think

a) I didn't defend before and

b)I haven't paid the DCA anything yet,

the judge would I just a [problem] and refused a set aside hearing

(From my last experience,I had a very nasty judge sat at my CCJ and CO hearings, so I am very very afraid of judges nowadays)

 

As you see I had send in my signaure for my SAR, I am now very worried that out of a blow they would provide a copy of credit agreement from nowhere.

 

Any help would be very very appreciated, I had all help from every direction since I am tracking on water here to prepare for the set aside hearing without any legal mind at all.

 

HELP! Please.

[sillygirl1]

No, the Judge has a legal obligation to hear your defence, they will not automatically think that you are doing a '[problem]', if anything it is the DCAs haste in getting a charging order which is the '[problem]'.

 

You don't need a legal mind to defend yourself, just a clear head and stay in control of your temper... believe me it is easy to 'loose it' when the DCA's duty solicitor (for that is what they usually use) state "we have no hope of recovering funds from this debtor"... that is when you clearly state "Sir or Madam, the creditor has not provided any documentation to support their particulars of claim and are relying on nothing more than a printed pierce of paper from their clients which state the amount owed. No statements have been provided and no original documentaion provided. At this stage an application form is not sufficient for them to tie the alleged debt to myself."

 

Forget the 'legal stuff'', just have a couple of statements like this written down and odds on the judge will listen. If you start clouding the issue with the various CCA legislation they may throw YOU out...

[sillygirl1]

You should be able to fill in the N244 form with our help WITHOUT the SAR information, the fact that you still have not got this can be added to the details ie

 

On XXX date I sent a SAR request to the original creditor, requesting full details of their allegations as none had been supplied prior to the judgement by default (for this is what it was) was obtained. To date no information has been supplied, this should be sufficient in itself to question their allegations as to the true amount owed.

[caller]

Hi, Sillygirl1, big thanks from deep of my heart, that's exactly what I need.

[caller]

Hi, All

 

Hope you don't mind I would like to ask for more help here, this time it is about how to fill the N244 form :-

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

at Q3, What order are you asking the court to make and why?

 

should I just mentioned the CCJ or I should mention the CO too, The DCA claimed they would apply Order of Sale next week, should I mention that as well.

 

at Q4, Have you attached a draft of the order you are applying for? Yes/NO

 

I don't know what is this.

 

at Q5 How do you want to have this application dealt with?

 

I think I should marked 'choice a hearing'?

 

at Q6 How long do you think the hearing will last

 

Shoud I marked 15 Mins? 30 MIns? I don't know what should I fill

 

at Q8 What level of Judge does your hearing need?

 

Should I fill 'district judge'

 

at Q10 What information will you be relying on, in support of your application?

a)the attached witness statement

b) the statement of case

c) the evidence set out in the box *below * this is a big empty space for me to fill in and some printed word : statement of Truth for applicat to sign

 

I don't know what they are; should I choice (b) in my case; do I need to fill something on the big empty space and sign the statement of Truth.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Any hints/advice would be much appreciated

[teaboy2]

Hi caller

 

Follow the advice given above and you should be ok. Also keep the letter from the OC that asked you for the signature to show it to the judge as you could argue that the OC had no legal grounds to require a copy of your signature and argue that you believe that any forth coming documentation could have been falsefied by the OC by the use of your signature.

 

Explain to the judge that if the said documentation still existed then they are legally obliged to produce such documentation without the need of any identification documents complete with your signiture. It may sound a long shot, but using it along with their so far non complience with your subject access request could prove a valid point in the eyes of the judge.

 

End of the day it is the claiment that has to strait prove of the debt and you can request they provide evidence as to why they required your signature. Am sure the judge would be interested in knowing as to why aswell, as no doubt this will not be the judges first case with regards to disputed debts. so the judge will be aware that it is unusaul for the OC to have made such a request for signature prior to them producing the documents requested.

 

So you could also add to your defence that you have reasonable grounds to believe that the claiment has falsified documentation or intends to do so given their request for your signature prior to providing you with your Subject access request.

 

If the judge asks why you went ahead and send copies of your signature just state that like you have on here that your mind was in to places at once becuase of the threat of losing your home over this.

 

Also with dca refusing to give you a notice of assignment stating you have admitted the debt and therefore they are not required to provide you with one under consumer law, is i believe a false statement. as you are prefectly entiled to have one regardless of weather you admit to the debt or not.

Edited September 12, 2009 by teaboy2

[sillygirl1]

What I now need is

 

The amount of the alleged debt

The name of the original creditor

The name of the DCA/Solicitors who took you to court

 

then the fun begins - remimber I have now had seven solicitors told off in court for being 'poorly prepared' or not knowing all the facts of the case - six of those were cases I dealt with on this site at a distance and one I did for a colleague who defended a dodgy catalogue claim... thats this years tally so far, lets get this set aside first.

 

You can PM me the details and I can help further if you don't want them on the site. I can download a copy of the N244 and use that.

 

You should have it ready to take to the court on Monday - I also need to know where your local court is.

[teaboy2]

Caller

 

I have sent a message to supersnopper whos a memeber of the site team so expect a member of the site team to take a look at this thread and give you some more valueable help and advice, along with the advice we and others have and will give you. Also listen to sillygirl shes been through all this before and has alot of experience to draw back on to help you out with this.

[sillygirl1]

Q10 is where you set everything out in you 'statement of case'

 

The statement I gave you is for use in court should you need it, I believe in keeping it simple and avoid the need to remember court acts and dates which miight give the other side a chance to counter with a legal argument you won't understand.

[supasnooper]

Just to let you know the site team are aware of the thread.

[caller]

Hi, many thanks to you all, sillygirl, teaboy2, supesnooper,

 

I am sorry I could reply you all earlier, I do not have internet at home and I rely the computer of my small local library with limit time usage. Apology to you all sincerely.

 

I am so grateful for all your help.

 

Caller

[caller]

Hi, sillygirl,

 

your advices are so great. Thanks again for your great help and I thanks for you to let me use the PM. I properly PM you later (sorry I could not tell you what time since I don't have internet at home and no scanner at local library, I would try to find a internet cafe) and posted the draft of the N244 form. Thanks again and again.

 

caller

[caller]

Hi, all, I couldn't not find any scanner at this moment, I typed the letter here I mentioned before : response from the OC regarding the SAR file, the OC are requesting the 'right signature' form me : -

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

xx September 2009

 

Dear XXXX,

 

Thank you for your request to be provided with personal data pursuant to theData Protection Act 1998.

 

For security reasons we require you to provide a form of positive identification ( an example of acceptable identification would be a copy of a driving licence or passport which includes the main cardholders signature*). Althought statement information has been sent to you at your address a current postal address is not an adequate form of identification. Due to the amount of personal information XXXX(name of the OC) will be sending in the Subject Access Request, including bank details, security information, places of birth and dates of birth, we would require extra identification from our customers.

 

Yours sincererly,

signature signed

(Compliance Department)

 

* these words are in bold on the letter

 

__________________________________________________________

 

Thanks all

 

Caller

[caller]

Hi, all,

 

I would like to send out the N244 this week, any idea/advice would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Caller

[caller]

Hi, sillygirl1,

 

I had send a PM to you to state about my case, thanks for all your help.

 

Caller

[teaboy2]

Hi, all, I couldn't not find any scanner at this moment, I typed the letter here I mentioned before : response from the OC regarding the SAR file, the OC are requesting the 'right signature' form me : -

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

xx September 2009

 

Dear XXXX,

 

Thank you for your request to be provided with personal data pursuant to theData Protection Act 1998.

 

For security reasons we require you to provide a form of positive identification ( an example of acceptable identification would be a copy of a driving licence or passport which includes the main cardholders signature*). Althought statement information has been sent to you at your address a current postal address is not an adequate form of identification. Due to the amount of personal information XXXX(name of the OC) will be sending in the Subject Access Request, including bank details, security information, places of birth and dates of birth, we would require extra identification from our customers.

 

Yours sincererly,

signature signed

(Compliance Department)

 

* these words are in bold on the letter

 

__________________________________________________________

 

Thanks all

 

Caller

 

not alot can be done now that you already sent the ID. so basically just do what we have said in earlier posts and if they have not provided the documents before the court hearing ask the judge to order them to do so.

 

stick to your guns about your concerns for the faking of the signiture to create false documentation and stait them to prove they are the true copies of the originals and to provide you with what legal reason they required your ID with signiture when it was already confirmed as to who you are. becuase if they hadnt confirmed you to be who they are making the claim against then it would never have gone to court and they would have had no legal grounds to place a CCJ against you if they werent 100% certain as to your ID. becuase if they were not 100% certain as to who you were then they could be placing a CCJ against someone completely innocent. or at least that would be my argument.

[caller]

thanks, teaboy2, thanks for your good advice.

 

I am going to complete the N244 with all the good advice gathering at my thread.

 

I would read more in the forum and would post more question to prepare the hearing later once I know the hearing date.

 

Thanks to you all.

 

Caller

[caller]

Hi, all.

 

Trying to complete the N244 form now, is it enough to just submit 'the statement of case' --( try to put it in a very short clear form without any special legal term and submit this week)at this stage .

 

Or must I write in 'the attached witness statement' as well, if not, should I do it after confirmation of the hearing date and then submitting one to the court

 

and if there's more add-on then something submit another paper called 'amendment of withness statement'?

 

Sorry quite confuse with all this term and procedures... What is a 'skeleton statment' & 'defence statment'? when do someone use it during the court procedure?

 

Please any advice would be much appreciated.

[caller]

Some help please to fill the form

 

On the N244 form, Paragraph 3

 

Qs3 . What order are you asking the court to make and why?

 

I intend to write this

Take Notice that the Defendant asked the court to set aside and stayed the County Court Judegement and the Charging Order as new evidence/developement could let the defendant to defense successfully asto the claimant's particular of claim

Qs 4 Have you attached a draft of the order you are applying for? Yes/No

 

Don't know what to say?

 

Qs 6 How long do you think the hearing will last?

 

Should I say 15..... or 30 minutes or 1 hour?

Qs 9 who should be served with this application?

And as on the claim form for the CCJ, there's a claimant (A )and the solicitor (B) on anothe box of ' the address for sending documents and payments.

Who should I put on the form? the claimant A or both A & B

------------------------------------------------------------

I am preparing some essay I think I would put it as the statement of case to attached with form and I try to make it clear and short.

 

I would like to say the alleged claim is not enforcement due to

 

1) no NoA

2) no DN

3) get big misleading advice from CAB and thus not doing the right thing at the right time to appeal with the CCJ

 

I know these point not sounding very promissing but I would give it a go.

 

Anyone? could you share your experience .....

 

Any opinion would be much appreciated.