MBNA/Arrow Global - BR Petition

[samu99]

I think AG need a stern letter on this one samu. I'll try & draft something & check back later...

 

Thank you so much Foolish Girl.... I am beginning to feel a bit down....but still hoping all will be well in the end... I have to remain positive even if it is just for my kids sake.

[foolishgirl]

This chain of events concerns me slightly as it looks as though the SD could have been served at your father's address:

I have never received any Statutory Demand notice, I recall my dad returning a letter to the DCA after a phone call with them but I haven't seen or received the letter. I did asked them to re-send it but never received it and still to this day don't know what it was.

 

1. Did you ever live here during the course of this account that they are claiming on?

 

2. Does your father recall signing for this letter? What was the content of this tel. conversation? Can he recall the date of delivery or the date of the phone call? How did he return the letter eg. Rec. Del?

 

Hi,As I'm beginning to get worried now, as I have not heard anything from AG regarding the b/k petition. I called to court several times and was told the court hearing cann't go ahead until the serve me and I told them I am concerned they will do it without serving me, she said they would have to show proof they have done so. Also, she said the court hearing should be likely in March as it was filed in Jan.

 

I think she may be referring to a B/K hearing but they would have to prove they served the SD correctly which doesn't seem likely (see below) Unfortunately I wouldn't trust AG an inch & it's possible that they may be trying to pull a fast one by claiming they have served correctly at your father's address despite your father informing them otherwise & returning the letter to them.

 

What do you think I should do now with AG?

 

If you can answer the above, it would help to decide on further action

 

I recently received a letter from AG regarding CCA request since 16 July I made to FRA UK Ltd regarding another MBNA alledged DEBT with Virgin credit cards, I send a letter 14 Aug to say "account in Dispute" and got no response. Now AG send me letter with credit agreement photocopy at the back with terms and signature that looks like an application form at the form. Yesterday, I send a "SAR, data protect act" to FRA UK Ltd because I have reasons to believe the details send by AG isn't truly correct. Any advice would be greatly appreicated.

 

You may be better starting a new thread off for this one so the issues don't confused on here. Just post the link here so peeps can find it easily.

 

Info. re. service of SDs with thanks to Seqenci

The creditor is under obligation to take reasonable steps to bring the demand to the debtor’s attention and if, practicable, personal service should take place. Where this is not possible, the creditor is allowed to serve the demand either via post or through a letterbox, but it is expected that following steps have taken place first:

 

• One personal visit to each of the debtor’s known residencies and places of business
  
• If it is not possible to serve the Statutory Demand during the visit(s), a letter should be sent to the debtor making her/him aware of the visit(s) have taken place and purpose of the visit(s). The letter should also state that another visit will be made for the same purpose and specify the date, time and place. At least two business days’ notice must be given. The letter should also state that if the time and place are inconvenient, the debtor should name a reasonable alternative. The letter can also state that if the debtor fails to keep the appointment, the demand will be posted/inserted through a letterbox and, if a bankruptcy petition is presented, the court will be requested to accept this as a service of demand. Copies of the letter should be sent to all known addresses of the debtor.
  

If the creditor presents a bankruptcy petition to the court, an affidavit has to be sworn giving details of service of the Statutory Demand. If a demand was not served personally and no written acknowledgement of service has been received from the debtor, the creditor must set out the steps it has taken to ensure the demand has been served on the debtor. If the court is not satisfied that the creditor has carried out their obligations, it can refuse to issue a petition.

 

Try not to worry about this samu, it should all be sorted out without B/K but it will probably involve you in a great deal of paperwork, court hearings etc. However at the end of the day, you can submit your costs & make these bs pay!

[samu99]

This chain of events concerns me slightly as it looks as though the SD could have been served at your father's address:

 

 

 

1. Did you ever live here during the course of this account that they are claiming on?No,it was at my address when I was very sick, I recall it was never posted, apparently it was put through my letter box, my dad at the time not in is right mind as to not to make me more worried as I was ill, call them and told them I was not living at my address. They then asked him to return the letter back to them which he did and I never seen the content of the letter.I then received a letter in the post to say they had received a phone call from Mr xxx xxxx and they can confirmed I owned the property and for me to make arrangements to settle the debt.I wrote back asking what the letter was about after what my dad told me he did and have never to this day received anything regarding that letter or its contents (this was around June/Jul last year).

 

2. Does your father recall signing for this letter? What was the content of this tel. conversation? Can he recall the date of delivery or the date of the phone call? How did he return the letter eg. Rec. Del?

No, he did not signed for any letter. He telephoned them telling them he was the owner of the property and didn't know me I think on the 18 June 2009. The letter was returned normal post apparently. I then received a letter from AG dated 19 June 2009 to say they have been contacted by MR XXX and they enclosed records from L/R showing I owed the property and they would continue with action as previously detailed.I responded to that letter, explaining I wasn't aware what my dad did until 4th Jul and asked them to forward the letter to me as I was not aware of the contents, I also made an offer to pay £50 per mth which was refused in their letter of 13 Jul asking me to verifiy details of my income, expenditure and assests and referring to the letter dated 1st May 2009 which I have never received. I then found your website to seek help. After sending the letter for CCA everthing was put on hold until they forward the forms posted here several months ago. I remember cancelling the payment proposal due to another letter which I received regarding another debt relating to another MBNA account.

 

 

Info. re. service of SDs with thanks to Seqenci

 

The creditor is under obligation to take reasonable steps to bring the demand to the debtor’s attention and if, practicable, personal service should take place. Where this is not possible, the creditor is allowed to serve the demand either via post or through a letterbox, but it is expected that following steps have taken place first:

 

• One personal visit to each of the debtor’s known residencies and places of business
  
• If it is not possible to serve the Statutory Demand during the visit(s), a letter should be sent to the debtor making her/him aware of the visit(s) have taken place and purpose of the visit(s). The letter should also state that another visit will be made for the same purpose and specify the date, time and place. At least two business days’ notice must be given. The letter should also state that if the time and place are inconvenient, the debtor should name a reasonable alternative. The letter can also state that if the debtor fails to keep the appointment, the demand will be posted/inserted through a letterbox and, if a bankruptcy petition is presented, the court will be requested to accept this as a service of demand. Copies of the letter should be sent to all known addresses of the debtor.
  

If the creditor presents a bankruptcy petition to the court, an affidavit has to be sworn giving details of service of the Statutory Demand. If a demand was not served personally and no written acknowledgement of service has been received from the debtor, the creditor must set out the steps it has taken to ensure the demand has been served on the debtor. If the court is not satisfied that the creditor has carried out their obligations, it can refuse to issue a petition.

 

Try not to worry about this samu, it should all be sorted out without B/K but it will probably involve you in a great deal of paperwork, court hearings etc. However at the end of the day, you can submit your costs & make these bs pay!

I just hope these people would say they served me and used what my dad did as a way of saying they served me and I ignored it.. I feel like screening at my dad (he is sixty odd years old) and thought he was helping me. I hope only just hope his behaviour wouldn't go against me... I have to remain positive and not give up... Any advice or help would be much appreciate.... Thank you.

[foolishgirl]

I really don't know what's going on here samu.

 

The time period you mention WRT the letter your dad returned would not seem to tie in as it seems the BP has not been submitted until Jan 2010. You only have 21 days to have an SD set aside before issue of the bk petition & you don't seem to have received either an SD or a BP & you should have expected to receive them within a few weeks of one another i.e. if the letter your dad returned last June was a SD, bk proceedings now just don't make sense timewise.

 

However you also mention in another post a variation on address details:

 

but received a letter with a different address stating I haven't responded to their request for payment and they would be filing a bankruptcy order against my property. I have today received a letter from the land registry stating they have received notification of bankruptacy against my property on the 21st Jan 2009.

 

What did you mean by the 'different address'? i.e. Could an SD have been delivered to an address at which you are not residing?

 

I suspect that the next thing you may receive will be a letter notifying you of b/k proceedings & I am not sure that you can do anything until you get that letter. However I would use the in between time to make sure you have all the statements, DNs etc that you will need to mount a defence. If you haven't done so already, I suggest you send an SAR to MBNA to request all information incl. statements, DNs, agreement etc. You need to send it Rec Del. sign but cross thro' you sig so it can't be copied & a PO for £10.00. The template is here:

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

[samu99]

I really don't know what's going on here samu.

 

The time period you mention WRT the letter your dad returned would not seem to tie in as it seems the BP has not been submitted until Jan 2010. You only have 21 days to have an SD set aside before issue of the bk petition & you don't seem to have received either an SD or a BP & you should have expected to receive them within a few weeks of one another i.e. if the letter your dad returned last June was a SD, bk proceedings now just don't make sense timewise.

 

However you also mention in another post a variation on address details:

 

 

 

What did you mean by the 'different address'? i.e. Could an SD have been delivered to an address at which you are not residing?

No, what I meant was AG address was different from all the previous correspondence.

I suspect that the next thing you may receive will be a letter notifying you of b/k proceedings & I am not sure that you can do anything until you get that letter. However I would use the in between time to make sure you have all the statements, DNs etc that you will need to mount a defence. If you haven't done so already, I suggest you send an SAR to MBNA to request all information incl. statements, DNs, agreement etc. You need to send it Rec Del. sign but cross thro' you sig so it can't be copied & a PO for £10.00. The template is here:

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

 

I only have letters from AG along with the so long agreements, I have no DN or statments. I will send off for SAR tomorrow but they have 40 days to response but hoping they send it back sooner rather than later. Do I send this direct to MBNA?Last week I send SAR request to FRA UK Ltd which relates to another MBNA account. RegardsSAMU

[foolishgirl]

Do I send this direct to MBNA?Last week I send SAR request to FRA UK Ltd which relates to another MBNA account.

 

It shouldn't matter who you send it to if the account has been sold but you may get more positive response from MBNA. Don't forget, don't sign & send Rec. Del.

 

I may be daft here but who are FRA?

[samu99]

It shouldn't matter who you send it to if the account has been sold but you may get more positive response from MBNA. Don't forget, don't sign & send Rec. Del.

 

I may be daft here but who are FRA?

 

You're not daft Foolish Girl... I think I am confusing you that's all. It is 2 x account with MBNA, one is being dealt with First Revenue Assurance UK Ltd (FRA), who also work with AG.I received a card in my letter box to say to call (a mobile) which I did and was told they had some important documents for me and when it would be convenient for them to deliver. I told them at 6pm tonight and I am currently waiting to see what it is.I will let you know once I receive it.Thanks again for all your help..Regards

[foolishgirl]

I don't know if there is a link between AG & FRA but be VERY careful if (& it's a big if) they do actually call. Do NOT let them in under any circumstances!

 

The card/parcel trick is an old one - it just establishes for them that you actually live there. Unfortunately by phoning them you have also released your phone no. to them & I suspect you may now receive plenty of harrassing calls. If so, I suggest you purchase the Truecall recorder off this site:

The Consumer Forums - TrueCall digital telephone recorder - the Rolls Royce of call recorders

[samu99]

You're not daft Foolish Girl... I think I am confusing you that's all. It is 2 x account with MBNA, one is being dealt with First Revenue Assurance UK Ltd (FRA), who also work with AG.I received a card in my letter box to say to call (a mobile) which I did and was told they had some important documents for me and when it would be convenient for them to deliver. I told them at 6pm tonight and I am currently waiting to see what it is.I will let you know once I receive it.Thanks again for all your help..Regards

 

 

 

Just received the form called Creditor's Bankruptcy Petition on Failure to Comply with a Statutory Demand for a Liquidated Sum Payable immediately Form 6.7 Me against AG LLP petition the court that a b/k order may be made against me.It states on the 17/6/2009 a statutory demand was served upon the debtor by Substituted ServiceIn respect of the above mentioned debt. To the best of my knowledge and belief the demand has neither been complied with or set aside in accordance with the Rules and no application to set it aside is outstanding.We do not, nor does any person on our behafl, hold any security ont he debtor's estate, or any part thereof, for the payment of the above mentioned sum.ENDORSEMENTThis petition having been presented to court on 19 Jan 2010. It is ordered that the petition shall be heard as follows

Edited February 17, 2010 by samu99

[foolishgirl]

Hmm...thought it might be this one.

 

So it looks as though the 'letter' that your dad returned was in fact the SD although I assume the prelims were not complied with in accordance with Post 52.

 

What date is the b/k hearing?

 

You are now going to have to act quickly & I suggest you immediately post in the Bankruptcy forum with a link to this thread to ask for help. I'll alert the site team also.

[samu99]

Hmm...thought it might be this one.

 

So it looks as though the 'letter' that your dad returned was in fact the SD although I assume the prelims were not complied with in accordance with Post 52.

 

What date is the b/k hearing?

 

You are now going to have to act quickly & I suggest you immediately post in the Bankruptcy forum with a link to this thread to ask for help. I'll alert the site team also.

 

The hearing is schedule on the 26 March at 10am. My computer hard drive is damaged and the guy is trying to get all the data copied over. at the moment I am using a friends computer and she ran out of ink... I would have to go and get some now so I can photocopy the petition tonight.I have a death in the family and the funeral is tomorrow but I want to get this posted up here tonight no matter what. Can you PLEASE REMIND ME HOW TO GET THINGS ATTACHED TO THIS SITE AGAIN? I have to go out now and try and get some ink and get the doc photocopy/because the printer is saying an aligning problem. I will get the link posted tonight... just remind how to do it. Thanks.

[samu99]

The hearing is schedule on the 26 March at 10am. My computer hard drive is damaged and the guy is trying to get all the data copied over. at the moment I am using a friends computer and she ran out of ink... I would have to go and get some now so I can photocopy the petition tonight.I have a death in the family and the funeral is tomorrow but I want to get this posted up here tonight no matter what. Can you PLEASE REMIND ME HOW TO GET THINGS ATTACHED TO THIS SITE AGAIN? I have to go out now and try and get some ink and get the doc photocopy/because the printer is saying an aligning problem. I will get the link posted tonight... just remind how to do it. Thanks.

 

 

Hi, I think I've managed to attached the document as requested.

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

http://tinypic.com/r/ib98nt/6

Edited February 17, 2010 by samu99

[foolishgirl]

Samu, I don't have any personal experience of bankruptcy so have asked for someone else to look in on your thread. In the meantime you MUST post another thread in this forum immediately asking for help & putting a link to this thread (copy & paste the http at the top of the page of this thread):

 

Formal Solutions: Bankruptcy, Administration Orders and IVAs - The Consumer Forums

 

There are lots of people on that forum who have been through the same process & survived but you need to act FAST.

[samu99]

Good evening,

 

I need some urgent help, I received a B/K petition today and have to act fast.. I only have 7 days to respond.

 

Please see the link below of my thread regarding my situation. I need help to oppose the petition. URGENT PLEASE

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/217925-mbna-arrow-global-dca-4.html

[samu99]

Samu, I don't have any personal experience of bankruptcy so have asked for someone else to look in on your thread. In the meantime you MUST post another thread in this forum immediately asking for help & putting a link to this thread (copy & paste the http at the top of the page of this thread):

 

Formal Solutions: Bankruptcy, Administration Orders and IVAs - The Consumer Forums

 

There are lots of people on that forum who have been through the same process & survived but you need to act FAST.

 

Thanks Foolish Girl, I've just posted the details as advised.

[42man]

OK....firstly please try and relax Samu. First things first, you MUST get all and ANY paperwork with regards to this from the court....visit if you have to, but get copies of EVERYTHING on the file, the court may charge you a small fee for the copying, explain that you are the litigant in person, they will not directly help you with the case. The forms to use in bankruptcy petition are form 6.19. this should be accompanied with an affadavit, and witness statements if necessary, once filled out they have to be submitted to the court and the opposing solicitors 7 days before the hearing. Once you have all the paperwork, send me a PM to let me know what is there, but do be cautious about posting on here. A SAR to the original creditor is also a good idea...(I haven't read through all of your thread yet, but I will when I get a chance).... - take a bit of confidence from this though - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/230330-bankruptcy-petition-costs.html

[42man]

Be aware that Arrow are watching this thread....can you send me a PM and let me know exactly what the particulars are on the petition, and as you have never seen a stat demand, once you have the details from the court let me know what they say on there too.

[42man]

Samu....a SAR to the original creditor is a good idea...you have sent a SAR to Arrow...have they complied yet ?

 

Also I am adding this too...

 

Then r 6.15 says:

(1) Service of the petition should be proved by affidavit.

(2) The affidavit shall have exhibited to it -

(a) a sealed copy of the petition, and

(b) if substituted service has been ordered, a sealed copy of the order;

and it should be filed in court immediately after service.

'In my judgment, bankruptcy is one of the most serious forms of execution that can be brought against a debtor. In any bankruptcy proceedings it is, in my view, absolutely clear that the provisions as to service must be followed exactly. The rules provide in terms that the petition must be supported by an affidavit of service showing how the petition was served, and express reference is made to substituted service and the way in which that then is to be proved, which involves the affidavit of service having with it a sealed copy of the order.' - JUDGE BOGGIS QC - SITTING AS A JUDGE OF THE HIGH COURT

[42man]

Was there any PPI ?

[samu99]

Samu....a SAR to the original creditor is a good idea...you have sent a SAR to Arrow...have they complied yet ?

 

Also I am adding this too...

 

Then r 6.15 says:

(1) Service of the petition should be proved by affidavit.

(2) The affidavit shall have exhibited to it -

(a) a sealed copy of the petition, and

(b) if substituted service has been ordered, a sealed copy of the order;

and it should be filed in court immediately after service.

 

'In my judgment, bankruptcy is one of the most serious forms of execution that can be brought against a debtor. In any bankruptcy proceedings it is, in my view, absolutely clear that the provisions as to service must be followed exactly. The rules provide in terms that the petition must be supported by an affidavit of service showing how the petition was served, and express reference is made to substituted service and the way in which that then is to be proved, which involves the affidavit of service having with it a sealed copy of the order.' - JUDGE BOGGIS QC - SITTING AS A JUDGE OF THE HIGH COURT

 

No, Arrow haven't complied with my SAR request not even an acknowledgement of my request.

 

Have you received the details send via PM?

[samu99]

Was there any PPI ?

 

 

HI 42 Man,

 

I haven't heard from you since my last PM, ae you available to help me please? Thank you.

[mandyjayne]

bump

[foolishgirl]

I don't know how far you got with this Samu but if you need urgent help alert the site team by pressing the red triangle & submitting your message. If 42man is not available someone else may be able to help.

[samu99]

I don't know how far you got with this Samu but if you need urgent help alert the site team by pressing the red triangle & submitting your message. If 42man is not available someone else may be able to help.

 

Hi Foolish Girl,

 

Thanks for your help. I have just send the alert message to the site team.

 

Regards

[citizenB]

Samu, can you please let us know how the hearing went.