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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Claim Stayed – Due to Unenforceable CCA Test Cases.


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How on earth can any form of reconstitution be accepted when the act requires production of the original for enforcement to be possible.

G

-------------------------

 

Exactly, Sir Gallahad !

 

People forget that the CCA was written in Plain English by Francis Bennion, in part because the CCA repealed the common law into consumer credit ! And with the supposed "demise" of the common law into consumer credit went all the common law tests that barristers had previously cleverly employed to establish eg, that it may well be reasonable to presume that "the sun shines in the daytime", as the CCA clearly states in most of its sections, but that that presumption must follow the established doctrine that all presumptions are rebuttable, not least because there are other factors that may well cause difficulty from time to time depending on eg the individual circumstances by which the contract in question came into being, in sustaining the reasonableness of the continuance of that rule in a changing society, etc, etc, etc.......

 

You don't hear much from he whom the common law termed (in the 30's) the "reasonable man" these days, do you ? You know him, that fellah that spent his days riding the Clapham Omnibus waiting to be asked for his opinion as to the merits of a particular fact situation. What happened to his "take" on things, eh ? He suddenly found obscurity, didn't he ? Or was obscurity thrust upon him, eh ?

 

Which links to Mr Bennion - who was careful to use wording in the Act like "it shall be ............" and not "ah, yeah, well, you see, guv'nor, it's not quite as you might care to think, you see, 'cos, that will depend on how the judge feels about it, you know, 'cos, I mean, he knows about these things, you see, er, not, on wot you might think he's gonna think it means."

 

NO. We don't know. But do we do understand "the sun shines in the daytime". Yeah, alright ! alright ! "Wot is sunshine?" "Wot is daytime?"

 

What we do know is that the tests employed by the House of Lords that satisfied Section 127(3) for a reasonable moment in time, (er, whilst that reasonable moment in time existed), appear to have themselves been repealed along with that section when it disappeared from the 2006 CCA, along with that pain in the butt, smartie on the Clapham Omnibus who probably got thrown out of the country for being alien. Alien to what? Has anyone seen him lately ?

Give him my regards !

 

John Story smilie.gif

 

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

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Has case recently against Next where there was no agreement or DN. Judge found for us without us having to say a word in Court and lambastedd the other side for their attempt to trying and enforce without them

 

Just serves to emphasise that it's something of a lottery regarding which Judge you end up with and their knowledge of consumer credit law. Some appear to find for the claimant merely on the basis that the defendant admits borrowing the money and/or the claimant provides statements to that effect.

 

Naturally, how well you argue your case is a major factor but I've read of so many injustices on this site which appear to be attributable to ignorance and/or prejudice by the Judge.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

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Just serves to emphasise that it's something of a lottery regarding which Judge you end up with and their knowledge of consumer credit law. Some appear to find for the claimant merely on the basis that the defendant admits borrowing the money and/or the claimant provides statements to that effect.

-----------

That's the point Welshmam - the (common law) Judges prefer the (old) common law position of caveat emptor (Here, "You borrow money you pay it back"), where "Acknowledgement of the debt" was all a plaintiff needed to win its common law claim as you say. Natwest tried this in Story and I readily admitted that I'd borrowed the money - but on terms that Mr Jackson had refused (smiling) to write - actually, it was Mary Pallister who asked him to document his "magnanimous" offer of £500,000 IF I accepted his business plan. I was happy with his handshake. Many debtors were simply tricked into admitting that they'd borrowed the money - their being too honest to suggest otherwise.

 

However, the CCA presumes 'mischief' on the part of lenders and it therefore provides that once a CCA defence is lodged, (if the debtor is even aware of the CCA) the Courts are (supposed to be) disallowed to refer to Common [contractual] Law, and the case MUST be subjected solely to CCA tests, starting with Section 8 (Regulated Agreements) and if the original contract passes Section 8 then the CCA applies, including the requirement that if the creditor has commenced the action in a Common Law Court (High Court and above) it MUST BE transferred to the County Court, ONCE a recognisable contract comes into existence, because again, the creditor has access to very clever common law practitioners who will attempt to evade the CCA. I say evade as opposed to avoid, because most solicitors are CCA licenced and they are supposed to respect the law.

 

The 1974 CCA simplified the process of contract recognition where the old common law multi-conditional contract' (offer/acceptance/capacity/consideration, etc) was restricted to sum - ie if the 'loan' was for less than (£2k, then £5k then £15k then £25k) then only the tests in the CCA are to be employed, including of course Section 16 which lists the only exemptions - everything else is regulated until such time as the loan is repaid from the debtors own purse.

 

I've argued this til I'm blue in the face, but the Common Law Courts have simply ignored the point and have engaged in oppressive practices to deter us, and regretably they do so because they know only too well that Section 8 CCA applies in Story; however they can't face that they have created a £300 Billions' plus monster where the ruling is still used, despite their knowledge of the grounds that, together with Francis Bennion's support, I challenge that ruling on the grounds that 3 regulated agreements are ignored by Auld LJ in his determination to benefit the common law.

 

Don't lose faith, the vast majority of District Judges/ County Court Judges are thoroughly decent and, after all, they have Sole Jurisdiction under S 141 CCA 1974 in recognition of their "competence" as opposed to the Common Law Courts which will "Fudge" all day given half a chance !

 

John Story smilie.gif

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

Edited by ruinedbynatwest
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This is a reality that can only be be tempered by the rule of law within the acceptable forms of protest that exist within our legal constitution. I have had to place faith in the american constitution where my .com protest site is regulated by international law - ie a .co.uk address would simply not be there.

 

It was brought home to me, brutally, on two accounts - and I shall mention one here - (the other is simply appalling and it involves a mid Atlantic meeting between Churchill and Roosevelt and, essentially two banks [one american, one british] during the second world war - at some point before D-Day - they were discussing Hitler's [continuing] interest payments) - the first, and not that palatable was within conference, by a silk who was brought in as a CCA specialist, Peter Smith QC, (who's now a High Court Judge) when I was approaching the High Court with Natwest V Story & Pallister - "The Judge will Fudge" and "truth and justice will be early casualties in this case" he opined as justification for terminating my legal aid certificate - because the outcome would be "potentially disastrous" for Natwest. We ended up swearing at each other and he terminated my legal aid certificate on the grounds that the judges did not like the CCA - "they are firmly grounded in the tradtion that if you borrow money you pay it back", and that I had shot myself in the foot by involving the Bank of England. I was pretty annoyed because I had been with Natwest for 17 years and repaid every single penny before I fell out with Mr Jackson because his handshake was worthless and because he taunted me "You've nothing in writing", and because, anyone who knows me will tell you that I am NOT a "round dodger" !

 

I keep repeating this woeful tale, and I apologise to those who've heard it before - but there's a critical point here - we have a Rule of Law - that applies to everyone, and we cannot allow resignation, "Oh, well, that's alright, then" simply because a senior judge is miffed that Parliament has been critical of the Common Law. What the hell was he (Peter Smith QC) actually saying to us (my junior barrister and solicitor were present) ? Was he actually saying that it is valid legal argument that a senior judge sets binding legal precedent on the basis that he doesn't 'like' something ?

 

Is he saying (as I strongly suspect) that the law has become sycophantic ?

Who polices primacy ? Where is Parliament's voice in all this ? Is it left to Mr Bennion ?

 

The Judges are not above the law. They swear to uphold Parliamentary Supremacy and the truth in Story is that they are caught red-handed by Section 8 CCA where regulated agreements were refinanced by the multiple agreement Auld LJ held to be unregulated.

 

What we must remember is that the Courts are a social barometer, and at the moment they are chock a block full with CCA cases that will be sending very alarming messages to the authorities.

 

It is no longer a secret that the banks are overstepping the mark !!

 

John Story smilie.gif

 

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

Who who was it in history that said " all that is bad in the world is not done by evil men, but by good men who sit by and do nothing " we have a reconstucted CCA under afidafit and an original the card carrier . WE want to hit back some guidance would be most welcome its in the " mbna application form" thread by professorgbr dont think i got that quote at the top quite right but hope its close to the mark .
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Just serves to emphasise that it's something of a lottery regarding which Judge you end up with and their knowledge of consumer credit law

 

This is true and why its equally important that we try to understand the legal argument including case law and reference material enough to educate them and not be bullied by the other sides Barrister which for most LIPs is the main reason if and why they fail

Live Life-Debt Free

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Just seen the following on Ceefax; 04/12/2009:

 

"Lenders must not mislead borrowers that their debts are enforceable, when in fact they are not, The OFT says.

The Regulator also says many debtors have, in turn, been mislead about their ability to escape their debts:

 

The OFT's comments are part of an intervention in a series of High Court test cases about the enforceability of debts under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

The outcome could affect thousands of potential court cases."

 

AC

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Just seen the following on Ceefax; 04/12/2009:

 

"Lenders must not mislead borrowers that their debts are enforceable, when in fact they are not, The OFT says.

The Regulator also says many debtors have, in turn, been mislead about their ability to escape their debts:

 

The OFT's comments are part of an intervention in a series of High Court test cases about the enforceability of debts under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

The outcome could affect thousands of potential court cases."

 

AC

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2624289.html

 

The full story in the link above, AC :D

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Can a reconstituted agreement have a reconstituted signature?

 

Can a DCA produce a reconstituted witness to this reconstituted agreement verifying its reconstituted accuracy?

 

Just asking.

 

Calling an entirely hypothetical spade an entirely hypothetical spade, no. And if some alleged DCA allegedly did reconstitute signatures, they allegedly might fall foul of the Fraud Act. That can carry a prison sentence.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Calling an entirely hypothetical spade an entirely hypothetical spade, no. And if some alleged DCA allegedly did reconstitute signatures, they allegedly might fall foul of the Fraud Act. That can carry a prison sentence.

 

Exactly the situation I am in. At a physical inspection of my 'original agreement', under CPR31.16, I was presented with a document that had been scanned and printed. It had my signature on it alright, but that signature was printed, it was not hand written by pen. The same applies to everything else 'hand written' on the form, it was printed. I am 100% sure of that.

 

This is not the thread for this I know, but as we veered into reconstituting agreements I thought I'd mention it. Any suggestions on how to deal with this situation would be welcome.

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Whilst SI1983/1553 allows them to reconstitute it would appear the OFT are saying if they don't have a copy on file they must point out that its unenforceable.

 

The simple answer would be just to either provide what's on file or admit nothing held....

Live Life-Debt Free

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If I catch the drift of the OFT comments correctly there seems to be something of a focus on the particular situation where the debtor is actually in default – therefore possibly creating the impression that the requesting of information under sections 77-79 of the Act is of little interest to those debtors (that is, the majority) who are not in default with their agreements.

 

If this were to become an established viewpoint and somehow translated into serious action it would be very good news for the banks and very harmful to consumer interests.

 

Rather like the way it would be very helpful if re-constituted agreements were to become an acceptable alternative to the real thing. But again, not for consumers

 

Interesting....

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Exactly the situation I am in. At a physical inspection of my 'original agreement', under CPR31.16, I was presented with a document that had been scanned and printed. It had my signature on it alright, but that signature was printed, it was not hand written by pen. The same applies to everything else 'hand written' on the form, it was printed. I am 100% sure of that.

 

This is not the thread for this I know, but as we veered into reconstituting agreements I thought I'd mention it. Any suggestions on how to deal with this situation would be welcome.

If you are realy sure about this I believe it to be a matter for the police. Its a very serious fraud.

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