Served with S21 Requiring Posession

[MartinPC]

I have been renting properties for many years having rented through a significant number of agencies, I am a landlord myself renting out my own house, 2 months ago I signed a tenancy agreement with estate/letting agent ‘Your Move’ and it has been my worst experience of all the agencies I have ever dealt with, it is not so much the case that they are in breach of the tenancy agreement but they are totally disregarding it except when it suits themselves.

Of course the tenancy agreement is between the landlord and the tenant, Your Move ‘hide’ behind “we are merely the agent’ but Your Move dictate the tenancy agreement, indeed it was their local manager that signed the tenancy agreement upon behalf of the landlord and indeed it is Your Move that take the rent payment each month.

And, as a landlord myself, the landlord is dependant upon the agent, his/her agent, keeping him/her informed but Your Move have made their procedures, their policies, so complicated not even Your Move’s staff know of the condition of the property, of any problems with the property, unless these may be reported to them by the tenant.

Compounding this their inventory reporting is sub-contracted out to third party(s), a standard inventory, this inventory, is of 52 A4 pages, it is nonsense, it even itemises, as a fixture and fitting, unopened (previous tenants) mail on the entrance hall floor. When a tenant departs a property Your Move itemise a departure inspection report, when the next tenant is moving in they complete an inventory report but, it is apparent, that nobody at Your Move studies these, or compares these, which is hardly surprising as each may be of 52 pages which would occupy staff time trying to make head or tail of what may be amiss.

Now, at the time that Your Move signed, upon behalf of the landlord, my tenancy agreement they already knew that the landlord was in default, in breach, of it because they had bought a number of problems with the property to my attention, by telephone, the day previously, a number of other problems were reported in the inventory, an inventory report that had been taken on the morning of the signing of the tenancy agreement but I didn’t receive a copy of until some 2 weeks later, and immediately upon subsequently entering the property I made Your Move aware of further problems and over the following days made Your Move aware of more problems as these problems became discovered.

Your Move, before signing the tenancy agreement, had made me aware of:

• Cracked tiles on 2 bathroom floors.
  
• Burns to 2 bedroom carpets
  
• Fridge/Freezer not defrosted
  
• Some ceiling damage in entrance hall
  

My response to Your Move regarding these, bearing in mind that I was facing homelessness within a day or two, was that these problems would not prevent me moving in to the property upon Your Move’s assurance that these problems would be put right in the imminent future.

Upon entering the property, later the same day by email, I alerted Your Move of the following, additional, problems:

• Shower dripping (this is metered water and I subsequently measured the drip at 1.9 litres per hour).
  
• Missing curtain tracks in 2 bedrooms (removed by previous tenants).
  
• Carpets dirty and stained in all 4 bedrooms.
  
• Stairs and landing carpet so dirty I considered it dirtied beyond cleaning.
  
• Skirting board adrift in dining room.
  
• Handrail detached from garden decking.
  
• Garden gate post adrift from its fixings.
  
• Literally every wall in every room in need of redecoration.
  
• Paint missing from kitchen windowsill (the MDF sill was never undercoated before gloss being applied).
  
• Grime on kitchen floor.
  
• Kitchen Venetian blind caked in filth.
  

And, over the following days, I alerted Your Move of such problems:

• No TV reception from aerial point despite an aerial being present in the loft.
  
• Kitchen sink plug in pieces.
  
• Hole in dining room wall where previous tenants had routed a satellite TV cable through.
  
• Bathroom floor(s) leaking like a sieve, the reported damage to the entrance hall ceiling is water damage from the leaking bathroom floor immediately above.
  
• Kitchen cupboards covered in (years of) grease and grime).
  
• Downstairs toilet infested with previous tenants pubic hairs.
  
• To generalize, the previous tenants had made no attempt to clean whatsoever, not even a duster or vacuum cleaner. Every surface in the property is dusty, or otherwise dirty, there is grease, grime, the carpets were disgusting, it was just so bad that it was, reasonably, beyond inhabitation.
  

Some 6 days after moving in, having been reduced to sleeping downstairs on a sofa due to the filth of the upstairs carpets, Your Move appointed professional carpet cleaners, the bedroom carpets became acceptable however, I was proven right, the stairs and landing carpet were dirtied, ruined, beyond being cleaned and, after 8 weeks in the property, arrangements are being made to replace this carpet.

Due to the leaking, not merely the previously reported ‘cracked tiles’, bathroom floors and I had no facility to take a bath or shower, for fear of causing damage for which I would have been responsible, for a 6 week period until these floors were replaced and during this period my only washing facility had been the kitchen sink.

8 weeks on the shower continued to drip at 1.9 litres of, metered, water per hour, Your Move have been aware the shower needs a new ‘service pack’ for some 6 or 7 weeks but alas they decline to repair, other repairs have been put right in the past week but only after I emailed the office of Your Move’s MD warning of impending county court action against them, whilst other repairs, no TV reception for the past 8 weeks is just an example, remain outstanding.

In communications with their maintenance department they must read the Landlord & Tenants Act of 1985 over their morning cornflakes because it is there favourite quote to cite that act stating that many of these problems are not legally required to be put right by the landlord, many of these communications are recorded in writing by email.

However clause 4.3 of Your Move’s tenancy agreement clearly states that the landlord is to ensure that upon the commencement date of the tenancy agreement he/she shall ensure that all installations, systems and appliances are clean and in proper working order.

This clause has been blatantly ignored, disregarded, by both the landlord (who is located hundreds of miles away) and Your Move who vainly attempt to administer everything from their Hampshire HQ rather than their local office(s).

So fed up have I become that, more recently, I have informed them that I interpret that the tenancy agreement has not yet commenced, it can’t have commenced because the landlord needs to adhere to clause 4.3 before it may commence, and once clause 4.3 had been adhered to then I will consider the tenancy agreement to have commenced and I will happily pay the rent payable under that agreement. For the period until clause 4.3 has been adhered to then we need to mutually agree upon how much rent I may pay taking in to consideration my hardships of being reduced to sleeping on the sofa and washing in the kitchen sink.

Your Move decline to acknowledge nor respond to me regarding this whilst their debt recovery department continue to ‘harrass’ me for payment of ‘disputed’ rent payment(s).

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

[bedlington83]

I think your on dodgy ground arguing that the tenancy hasn't started. The clause in the agreement has clearly been broken but that doesn't prevent the tenancy from being created. You've moved in and have paid rent so the tenancy exists. You may also be on dodgy grounds withholding rent, although I concede that you probably know more about it than I do.

 

Your best bet is to sue the landlord but I think you're doing that anyway. Good luck and keep us informed

[MartinPC]

bedlington,

 

That was what I posted back then. Thereafter I took a solicitor's advice and am making online money claims for reductions in the rent for up to the first 39 days of the tenancy.

 

If/when I may be in direct contact with the LL then I'll tell them that further claims are to be forthcoming, 3 months in to the tenancy the downstair loo remains a 'no go' area whilst awaiting cleaning of pubic hairs, still no TV aerial reception, and then there's, so far, 3 months of metered water @ 1.9 litres per hour (dripping from the shower) etc. and do they wish to sort these out in or out of court?

[MartinPC]

Might somebody knowledgably answer this one please:

 

I Have today received the LL's defence to my county court claim, previously, via the agent, they had offered a monetary settlement which I neither accepted nor refused but declined to enter in to communication regarding it with any other party than the LL or their legal representative, and now the LL is defending my claim in total.

 

The LL's defence is very weak to say the least, it is economic with the truth and, in places, factually incorrect that I can prove and in writing and one point they are focusing on, not that is bears any relevance to my claim, is that I had placed 'emulsion' paint rollers, brush and tray in the bath to drip dry, deposits of paint that I have long since removed with a damp cloth.

 

However they have, in writing, clarified that they have photographic evidence of this provided by photo(s) taken by a contractor who had been here, as informed to me, merely to replace the cracked tiled bathroom floor and whilst that contractor had informed me of taking photo(s) of the finished floor there is no way that the area of the paint deposits etc. around the bath taps would have appeared in such photo(s) unless the contracted had specifically targeted the camera on that area and such a photo would not have included any of the bathroom floor that he was supposed to be photographing.

 

I suspected, a few days thereafter, that something was going on because in conversation with the agent's local office they mentioned something regarding paint rollers etc.

 

It is in the tenancy agreement that, upon provision of at least 24 hours notice, I shall permit the LL or agent to enter the premises for:

 

1. Examining the condition of the premises, or:

 

2. Maintaining or repairing, and it goes on to mention that I shall permit entry to all persons authorised by the LL or the agent.

 

The LL or the agent had provided me with at least 24 hours notice of workmen calling for the purpose of replacing the bathroom floor and I had permited, agreed to, workmen calling to replace the bathroom floor.

 

At no time had the LL or agent asked or notified me that an examiniation of the condition of the premises, other than the bathroom floor, would be carried out at that time thus my question is:

 

Whilst a judge may accept such photographic evidence, not that it bears any relevance to my claim, are the LL or agent in breach of the tenancy agreement, indeed 'dirty tricks', by accepting such photographs as documented examination of the property, i.e. they are accepting that an examination of the property took place, having not provided me with at least 24 hours notice whereas I would have been provided with the time to clean the paint deposits off with a damp cloth?

[MartinPC]

Hi All,

 

Coming to the latter stages, 9 weeks to go, of a 6 month AST and have been served with a S21 that the landlord required possession, my tenancy is being refused ectension, on the last day of my 6 months.

 

This comes as no surprise, I have already seen this house being advertised for rental from the end of my 6 months, it's all very political, I have been a good tenant but have need to take the LL to court for breach of tenancy agreement etc.

 

But my question is, that having been served with this S21, do I need to stay, or pay, until the last day of the AST or can I quit beforehand.

 

My reason for asking is that I have seen an ideal property to move to but I doubt it will remain available for 9 weeks until the end of this AST.

 

Thanks

[Kentish Lass]

The s.21 notice is simply that - a notice informing you that the LL requires possession of the property at the end of the AST term. If you choose not to go, LL has to get a court order to actually gain that possession (and if you still don't go - get bailiffs to evict).

 

Unfortunately, in answer to your question, no, you cannot leave before the end of the AST term, but you can just walk out on the last day - no need to give notice (regardless of what it says in the AST).

 

I guess this is not the answer you are looking for.

 

The only variation to this would be if your LL agreed to you leaving before the end of the term. Since it sounds as if relations are not too wonderful in that direction this may not be an option, especially since the LL can dictate the terms of such agreement between you.

 

By the way, you talk about taking LL to court for breach of the terms of the AST. I don't know the details, obviously, but do think carefully before jumping in to court - if you lose it could be expensive. You should always weigh up the pros and cons of such action and make sure you think it is worth it beforehand.

[MartinPC]

Thans KL,

 

I would have preferred a different answer but your answer is the one I had been expecting anyway.

 

The subject of the court case was that the 2 bathrooms, due to cracked floors causing water damage to the ceilings and walls below, were unusable for the first 6 weeks of my tenancy and until the LL/agent got their fingers out of backsides to do something about it and so much of this, and other matters, has been recorded in written email communications.

 

Another BIG problem was that the previous tenants had not so much as put a vacuum cleaner around prior to departing, the house had been empty for 2 weeks before I moved in, and the LL/agent had done diddly squat to clean or sort out the other required repairs.

 

On the same subject I have repeatedly called that the TA needs amending to the effect that I may leave the property in the same condition to how I found it but these calls have falling on deaf ears.

 

Now I'm reading this paperwork, accompanying the S21 notice, received and it is stating that the property needs to be cleaned throughout and, in particular, that curtains should be professionally cleaned and receipt(s) for the same provided.

 

Now, in particular, the curtains were so 'manky' when I moved in the agent himself insisted that I wash my hands after touching them, again this is recorded in a written email, and the tenancy agreement states that such cleaning should only take place if the such "shall have been soiled".

 

Well these curtains have been in storage thus they shall not have been soiled during my tenancy but, by this letter and in disagreement with the tenancy agreement, I am being instructed to have them professionally cleaned!

 

I consider this to be enough of a justification to withhold rent payment(s) to the equivalent of the security deposit, I have repeated argued regarding the filthy state of this property when I moved in, that I am not prepared to deep clean it twice, upon moving in and upon moving out, one or the other but not both, and now they are telling me that if I do not clean etc. then my security deposit is 'in danger'!

[Kentish Lass]

I sympathise with you on this. Particularly since, with a two week void, there was no excuse for not making sure the property was in a good state for the start of your tenancy. as for repairs etc. it is such false economy not to carry these out.

 

By the way, why did you take the property if it was in such a state?

 

I know there are some really bad tenants out there, but as a LL myself, it makes me furious when good tenants are treated in the way you describe. I have said it before though, too many LLs see their properties as ATMs!!

[MartinPC]

KL,

 

Thanks, I am a LL also and my tenant has been in my (owned) house for 10 years, part of this is because she loves the house but the fact that I put right any problems also helps!

 

As LL's we prefer to make as much money, revenue, as we can, that is only human nature, but we need to understand that we need to put money back in sometimes!

 

Another problem with this house, reported on the LL/agent's inventory, is a dripping shower and 4 months down the road they still decline/refuse to have a new 'service pack' installed.

 

This is dripping at a rate of 1.9 lites per hour, that's some 5,000 litres of water down the drain so far, and this is metered water. I'm going to calculate the cost of 1.9 litres per hour for 6 months and deduct this from the rent also

[MartinPC]

KL,

 

If I might, please, run another scenario past you:

 

I've mention that the shower continues to drip, the shower is in need of a new 'service pack' and the LL/agent have know this since soon after my tenancy started, and they were aware the shower was dripping before I moved in.

 

In the TA, and under the 1985 act, the LL is obligated to repair and keep in good working order installations for the supply of water. This shower is a fixed water installation with it's own plumbed water supply and with no fitted isolator valves thus, short of turning the water supply off at the main stop cock, it continues to drip.

 

Bearing in mind this breaches, in my belief, the 1985 act does this represent, what is legally referred to as, a fundamental breach of the TA?

 

Thanks

[Kentish Lass]

I am afraid I do not know the answer to that - you need a lawyer for that one.

 

I only know that you should have been able to get 3 quotes for the necessary repair, send them with a letter to your landlord stating that you have repeatedly requested that the fault with the shower unit (which was known to LL and LA at the beginning of the tenancy) be repaired and that if such repair is not carried out within [14?] days, that you will use the cheapest quote to have the work carried out and deduct the cost from the next rental payment. You could also have advised that since LL and LA had repeatedly refused to carry out this very necessary repair, you would be deducting the costs of the wasted metered water from the rental payment.

 

(By the way, don't forget that your waste water bill is based on the metered water usage......)

 

I don't suppose this is any use to you really, but I am not a lawyer and don't know the answer to your original question, sorry!!

[MartinPC]

Thanks again KL,

 

Yes, I appreciate that for metered water I also pay a percentage of used water as a sewerage charge ..... and I believe I pay some VAT on these, have no fear, nothing shall be missed

 

I'll also be charging the LL for utilities used by their workmen during my tenancy, work that should have been completed before I moved in. Just as an example the patio needed the green cleaning off it, it was lethal to walk on when wet, the workman jet-washed it for 2.5 hours and reading about the jet-washers on Argos's website they use 6+ litres of water per minute and something like 1.2kw of electricity per hour!

 

To be honest, for 2 months after moving in to this property I allowed myself to become stressed regarding it, I was neglecting my business duties, and after 2 months I found it necessary to give up hope and just make the best of a bad job, I had just lost enthusiasm to have estimates etc. for the repair of the shower, any abidance to the TA had been all one sided, it became clear that the other party(s) couldn't give a rat's backside, and I declined to become stressed any further.

 

I think I'll play this off the cuff, it I find another place to live then this LL/agent can go to hell, if I don't find somewhere to live, so soon, then I'll play this tenancy out by the book.

 

Thanks Again

[MartinPC]

KL,

 

Taking in to consideration that I have a sense of humour, this gets funnier and funnier, this agent are continuing to change, or make up, the rules as they go along!

 

I've had a further 'snotgram' from the agent today informing me, amongst other things, of the following:

 

1. That the check-out inspection is scheduled for 2 days after my tenancy ends and it is expected that I shall return to the property to meet with their representative.

 

2. That I am expected to return the keys, to an office I have never heard of, by that office's close of business during my final day of tenancy.

 

3. A check-out fee of £109.25 inc. VAT shall be deducted from my security deposit.

 

Well I make the following points:

 

1. As of 2359 hours on my final day of tenancy I am no longer under any contractual obligation to the LL/agent, I could be moving hundreds of miles away, indeed internationally, and if they think I am returning to this property, particularly at my own expense and when I should be at work, when I am under no contractual obligation to do so then they can take a hike. If they cannot schedule the inspection during my final day of tenancy then that is their problem, not mine!

 

Furthermore the TA states that such an inspection shall take place at the end of the tenancy and not after the end of the tenancy!

 

2. The TA states that at the check-out inspection the representative shall take the keys from me, I am not required to return them to any address. And, as far as I'm concerned, I am contracted and paying until 2359 hours on that last day of tenancy and if they are dictating that the keys returned during office hours, of that day, then they are changing the TA whilst terminating my tenancy early!

 

3. A check-out fee is covered in the TA but, regarding the security deposit, the TA does not allow for such a fee to be deducted from it, the deposit is only for damages, any legal fees or any other monies outstanding at the end of the tenancy, the tenancy still has 2 months to run so they should be offering me a choice of methods of how I would like to pay this fee.

 

I've been reading about these TDS's on this forum and I've read something about being informed within a 3 week period that the deposit has been held in a scheme.

 

In my scenario, and at the time I was signing the TA, I was informed that the deposit would be protected in a scheme, indeed it is written in the TA, and I was just handing the deposit over at that time, and that was the last I heard on the subject.

 

In this snotgram of today the agent seem very confident that they are going to deduct this or that from the deposit so next week I'm going to be making a phone calls to the TDS however have the agent conformed to the TDS requirements, that the informed me that the deposit would go to a TDS but I haven't had it confirmed since that the deposit is actually in, or received by, a TDS?

 

Thanks

[MartinPC]

Hi People,

 

My tenant and I get along extremely well, she is on DSS benefits and has been a good tenant for the past 11 years, however DSS have recently 'cut' her benefits, she is accumulating bills that she cannot pay and only circa 60% of the rent is being paid by DSS, my tenant is even thinking of declaring herself bankrupt so bad is her situation.

 

I was only keeping the house whilst it remained profitable and, combined with other circumstances in my life, this situation convinces me to put the house up for sale and as soon as is reasonably possible.

 

Her current tenancy agreement has circa 6 months to run, there is a one month notice clause in it, to keep things 100% legal what do I need to serve upon her to serve notice that she needs to vacate the property on a particular date?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Snorkerz]

Is your tenants current agreement an AST?

 

Does she owe you at least 2 months worth or rent?

[MartinPC]

Hi,

 

It's an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement with a one month, by either party, notice period incorporated within it.

 

If she isn't in arrears by at least the monetary equivalent of 2 months rent yet then, by the end of this month (January), she will be in arrears by that amount.

 

However ...... as per 'standard' rent payments are contracted as payable one month in advance but, all the time (11 years) she has been my tenant, she has been on DHSS housing benefits thus she has always been circa one month in arrears because DHSS pay in arrears rather than in advance.

 

This said my tenant is now waving the white flag, unless she can take out a loan she simply cannot meet with rent payments but her loan applications are being refused because of her situation, no regular income etc.

[Bookworm]

Well, if you have a good relationship with her, best thing IMO would be to serve her notice, she then ignores it and you have to get an eviction order.

 

The reason is if she leaves when notice runs out, the council doesn't have a duty to rehouse her, as it would be classified as making herself "intentionally homeless". OTOH, if she is evicted, then the council has a legal duty to rehouse her and she may have a better chance to end up in a property where she Hb covers the totality of the rent.

 

Also bear in mind that with the current housing market, a tenant who only pays part of the rent is still better than an empty house... Just a thought. ;-)

[MartinPC]

Thanks Bookworm,

 

I do have a good relationship with her and she sometimes asks me for advice on subjects similar to what we are discussing now.

 

When she notified me of this situation, earlier this month, my initial response was that I had no intention of evicting her before the end of her tenancy which expires in August however, since then, I have spoken to my mortgage lender, my tenant's lack of payments is causing a lack of mortgage repayments, and my mortgage lender seem, politely, unwilling to wait until the autumn to catch up with mortgage arrears.

 

But, before this situation developed, I had it in mind to sell the house and emigrate this year, I had, more or less, decided to put the house up for sale at the end of the current tenancy but all the while I keep it my mortgage arrears are accumulating and, combined with my mortgage lenders 'impatience', I feel I need to put the house up for sale in circa March, once the warmer weather arrives when more people go viewing etc.

 

Hence my reason for coming here to ask the initial question but thanks for mentioning about the council's legal responsibilities etc. I'll email my tenant shortly giving her an update and letting her know this, that it is not to her advantage if I don't evict her etc.

 

One question please ..... once I put the house up for sale should I 'legally' serve notice on her at that time or, not knowing how long the house may take to sell, allow her to remain in the house and serve notice once I have accepted an offer on the house? She wouldn't be 'difficult', she'll allow people to view, show them around etc.

 

Thanks again

[Snorkerz]

If she isn't 'difficult' and leaves without a court order then the council are unlikely to house her.

 

You need to commence the s8 process now. Once you get a possesion order, it is up to you if & when you call in the bailiffs. If you were to organise bailiffs for, say, a fortnight before completion date then that would allow a little room for mess-ups.

[MartinPC]

Hi Snorkerz,

 

But, surely, if I serve the appropriate eviction paperwork upon her then, surely, she is lawfully required to vacate the property by no later than the appropriate date.

 

Surely, with that eviction paperwork in hand she can then go to the council, that she is to be homeless by X date and she needs rehousing?

 

A court order would only be required should she fail to abide what is lawfully required and, correct me if I'm wrong, a CCJ would be issued against her and 'screw' her in the future.

 

Bookworm mentioned, previously, that if she is evicted, i.e. eviction paperwork is served upon her, then the council has a legal duty to rehouse her, surely a council cannot be seen to be encouraging her to act unlawfully by encouraging her to ignore an eviction order, to have a court order, a CCJ, issued against her, before they will do what is their legal responsibility ..... can they?

[Bookworm]

... Wanna bet?

 

This is exactly what happened to us many moons ago. Our private landlord wanted us out, I went to the council and asked them about rehousing, they're the ones who explained to us that if we left willingly at the end of our notice, they would nothing about it... Go figure.

 

Once you go to court and have the court order, she can take a copy to the council, until then, they won't move a finger.

 

Depending on where in the UK you are, there may be difficulties if she's "just" a single woman with no other problem than being on benefits, as she wouldn't be priority, I know our council puts people in hostels or B&Bs, which isn't ideal...

 

It's actually something which really bugs me, the way the councils have changed the goalposts for Housing Benefit. Their new way of working things out means that people have to find the shortfall from elsewhere, ie in a lot of cases their Income Support... Yet IS is the minimum the law says you need to survive on, NOT including rent or council tax... So surely the councils' methods are forcing people into further poverty? How do they get away with that?

 

(sorry, OT, but it does drive me nuts. )

[Snorkerz]

Sorry MartinPC, the s8 notice you give is just a warning that you are going to apply to the court or possesion, it doesn't force her to move out and she has every right to stay until a court order is obtained - ie it isn't unlawful, it is her right. You, as landlord, have no 'right' to terminate the tenancy, Only the court can make a tenant leave a property (or, more accurately, bailiffs with the courts permission)

 

I don't believe a possession order automatically results in a CCJ unless you request an order for the outstanding rent etc. Even if you did that, a CCJ can be easily removed providing it is paid within 14 days.

 

However, it may be recorded somewhere as protection for future landlords who may find themselves in an equally difficult situation.

[MartinPC]

Thanks Book.

 

Thanks Snork,

 

It's not a case that I have a tenancy problem, well not yet anyway , I'm actually asking these questions, seeking advice, upon both my own behalf and on behalf of my tenant, her and I do talk to each other and we hope to sort this mess out amicably between us.

 

Her communication to me earlier this month explained her situation and she left it to me if I wanted to evict her or not, she's been my good tenant of 11 years and, whilst business is business, I don't want to kick her out leaving her, perhaps, homeless if we can find an amicable resolve.

 

Her situation shanged because both her children are now over 18 y/o thus she's lost benefits associated with children and, because they are 18+, I doubt the council will take her dependant children in to consideration because they are, now, legally adults.

 

Once concern, one fear of god, you lot are putting up me is if I am to put the house up for sale and I need to go through a court order etc. then this is going to lead to complications, nobody is likely to make an offer for the house if there is a court case in progress!

 

But thanks for all advices, I might direct my tenant to this thread so she can read all this information for herself.

[NewSAHD]

Can understand why this may have happened, but, all the same, it is still really frustrating to hear where this is possibly leading for your tenant and you...

 

Is the large reduction in her housing benefit simply due to her being a sole occupant in a two bedroom (or more) house, as opposed to having just the one bedroom?

 

====

 

(EDIT: my post crossed with yours

"Her situation shanged because both her children are now over 18 y/o thus she's lost benefits associated with children and, because they are 18+, I doubt the council will take her dependant children in to consideration because they are, now, legally adults."

Harsh question, perhaps, but I am assuming the children may work now, if so, do they pay rent to their mother - and would they? I ask as some years back it was suggested to my brother (not by me, but he was somewhat older than 18) that he pay my mother rent for living with her at the time as she herself had bills to pay)

 

===

 

I ask as I dealt with what seems to be a similar case a couple of years back, although fully appreciate the guidelines to work within may have changed.

 

That case was not initially managed/dealt with by me either, but passed to me late in the day to resolve, as tenant and landlord seemed to face an impossible situation - as do you and your tenant.

 

In that case an elderly tenant passed away and his widow (having lived together for many years in the same two bedroom flat) found her housing benefit reduced, as she was then one person living in a two bedroom flat. She had no savings or any other way of making up the shortfall in rent that was being proposed. It seemed, on the face of it, that she would have to leave.

 

It was resolved with the initially 'discrete' assistance of the Local Authority and the Rent Officer - and, of course, the Landlord later accepting slightly less than a full market rent for the foreseeable future. Elderly lady has her rent paid in full by Housing Benefit, Landlord receives "nearly" full market rent and everyone gets a rosy feeling.

 

As the elderly lady's home was a two bedroom flat I was even working on the premise that everyone was initially and sufficiently unhappy about what could occur to (lightly) suggest one bedroom be locked by the landlord, so the tenant had no access.

 

The flat would then be assessed for Housing Benefit purposes as one bed - call it subterfuge, whatever, but I've had landlords lock attic spaces over the years (to retain the space for "safe" ie non-flammable storage).

 

Never came to that so there was no need to push too hard on that line of thought - and am not even sure now how serious it was intended to be - but as soon as I read your post I thought of that little old lady.

 

I hope you accept this post in the spirit it is intended - and ask if the house is able to be divided up in any one way, should you "need" any storage space for the foreseeable future?

 

Perhaps someone with more up to date experience might comment too?

Edited January 29, 2010 by NewSAHD
crossed posts

[Planner]

Okay, a little confusing this one. Shes either within the fixed term of a six month AST agreement or she isnt. Theres no in between stage which would allow either of you to terminate with one months notice.

 

I she is within he fixed term of a 6 months AST then the earliest you couold get her out with a s.21 notice would be at the end of the fixed term, Minimum notice for a landlord to serve is two months, regardless of what your AST agreement says. If she is on a monthly periodic (rolloing tenancy), you can serve two months notice now in the form of a s.21.

 

When she is two months in arrears ou can serve the s.8 notice.