DVLA Late Licensing Penalty

[xxtinyangelxx]

having looked at your thread, everything u need to know is already in this thread, give it a read ;-)

 

I've read this thread a number of times now and theres conflicting advice.

 

Maybe some of you who really do know your stuff could read my thread and make a reply, maybe a bit more in laymans terms?

 

I've spoke to philips collections services yesterday AGAIN and was called back today. After speaking with a supervisor they have put my account on hold for 2 weeks until i contact the dvla and ask for a copy of the acknowledgement letter. But i doubt if i DO get a copy of an acknowledgement letter that it will state on it that i was the last registered keeper until the sale on 08/12/2008!!!

 

Now what?

[dojj]

i've just got a letter back from the dvla llp peeps that says:

 

i note that on 30th september you sent a letter to the dvla swansea notifying the disposal of a number of vehicles in your possession. in your letter you also confirmed that a sorn declaration was currently in force for vehicle *******. i can confirm that as at 30th september 2009 this information was correct, however the sorn declaration for vehicle ******* expired on the 31st of october 2009 and the vehicle has remained unlicensed since this date

 

followed by more bumpf about not making a further sorn declaration, even though i've sent 2 letters in november asking why i haven't received my reminder as i can't sorn it until i have the reminder because i can't put in any numbers

 

rather than send me a letter saying "here are the numbers, sorry for any inconvenience", they've said that the letter they sent on the 1st of december telling me i was liable for the fine still needs to be paid

 

so can i just wrote back to them saying that i've done what has been asked of me and i will see them in court?

 

or do i just roll over and pay the fine and send them a poo in a box?

[Raykay]

I expect that what they will tell you is that if you haven't got the reminder, you should use form V890 (from a Post Office) - all that needs is the Registration Mark, Make & Model.

 

You only need a reference number if you are doing it on-line or by phone.

[dojj]

they've sent me the form, but that doesn't mean that they should still be sending me fines for something that i've not only sent 2 letters to them about, but also phoned them in regards to it, so the phone call will be in there somewhere

 

i'll have to send them a poo in a box, recorded delivery, just in case it gets lost in the post

[Raykay]

As the SORN expired on 31st October the vehicle became 'un-licensed' from that date. You should have either licensed it or declared SORN again on 1st November, as you did neither you became liable for the Late Licensing Penalty.

I don't suppose that your letters or phone calls will make an difference to the DVLA chasing you for the money.

[dojj]

that's what i'm thinking

 

but i wrote to them twice in november asking where the reminder was without any reply

 

i suppose this is the way they are going to "earn" money seeing as the letter also states that they get a favourable rate from the royal mail for posting their letters but they would not be able to send them out recorded as it would not be cost effective for the taxpayer

 

at this point i should just swear a lot before baning my head against a brick wall ebfore paying up i suppose

[Anyamonsta]

I have a very similar problem at the moment, however the time frame for myself is just 8 weeks or so from declaring the car scrapped. They insist that they did not receive notification and will not discuss it over the phone, only in writing so this could take a while to resolve. Either way, there is NO WAY IN HELL that I'm paying 40p yet alone £40 or £80. Not only is that a lot of cash to me right now, but a publicly funded government body such as the DVLA should encourage the cost and time savings of telephone conversations or Email and not be insisting that 'snail mail' be used to drag out and delay such cases.

 

Anyway...

 

I filled in my slip and sent it off last November...

I received no confirmation letter, which was due over the new year period...

I didn't even think about it as as far as I was concerned, it was unimportant.

I was fined, but received no letter telling me so...

I received a FINAL NOTICE to which i wrote and contested...

They wrote back lowering the £80 to £40 if I paid before the deadline as I had not received the original fine letter...

I called them and spoke to the rudest woman in the world who did nothing for my case other than to offend me, hang up on me and all-in-all refuse to talk to me suggesting that they do this to people a lot !

 

This is my response to that phone call... I will post more as it happens because if need be, I WILL go to court and fight this!

 

Dear Mrs Costin,

Before I begin the main body of this letter, I would like to note the current time and date, 9:30 am 09.03.2010, having just gotten off the telephone to one of your staff members at your call centre (020 8302 9331). My experience of your call centre was quite bizarre; please allow me to describe it to you...

I called the first time to hear a message that the call centre was currently closed and that I should call back between 9 – 5 Mon – Fri, which at 9:15 on a Tuesday I thought was a little unprofessional for such a large government agency spending public money. Having said this, I assumed a simple mistake had taken place within your telephone system so I called back. Unfortunately, my second call was answered by a very rude woman who’s name I did not ask. I will not go to the lengths in this letter to explain the conversation as it was recorded by your office. I encourage you to play back the audio file of this and judge for yourself just how much customer service training the telephonist needs. There was no need for her to be rude to me or even engage in the conversation in the first place. Understandably, I pursued the conversation in the first instance as I had a problem that I wanted resolving without the time constraint of having to write you, but she asked about my dilemma and then was very rude in dismissing it. Totally unnecessary.

 

Anyway, I will leave that in your hands as more importantly for me is the problem in hand. I was issued a final notice some weeks ago, with regards to a fine that I did not know that I had received. The fine was for £80 under the allegation that I had not informed DVLA that my car had been scrapped. This is unfortunate error is untrue as I did, in fact, post the yellow strip (V5C/3) to the DVLA office in Swansea last November (2009). I scrapped the car through my local council’s recommended outlet, “AutoBits”. They came a collected the car, signed the paperwork in front of me, and witnessed while I signed the yellow portion. He then tore it off (V5C/3) and gave it to me to post whilst keeping the rest of the document to deal with him-self. I posted the yellow strip away a day later and thought no more about it.

 

Although I was aware that I should receive a confirmation letter, I was not aware that I would be liable for a fine should I not be able to produce it. Having looked at the same portion of the log book of a friend, it simply states that if I don’t receive the letter within four weeks, to contact you and request one, not that I would be fined if the DVLA did not log my initial contact.

I understand that the DVLA print the reminder about the confirmation letter for the occasional mishap with the postal service, but the fact that I am having to write, or rather that I am not allowed to phone, suggests that it is a common problem and your staff do not wish to engage in such conversations as you are trying to charge £40 - £80 for something that I have already dealt with.

4 weeks from the date of scrapping my car was over the new year period and it simply slipped my mind being such a busy time for any family, especially as I had not realised its importance and having got rid of the car considered the whole situation dealt with and finished.

So, I would again like to strongly contest the fine which your office has issued as I consider it wholly unfair and unjust. Your standard procedure is to fill in the yellow slip and post it to the Swansea office, just as I did. I find it likely that your office has simply not received it, or misplaced it in its processing stage and see no reason why I should be financially penalised for this as the statement “If you have not received an acknowledgment letter after 4 weeks please contact DVLA on...” does not really impose the importance of the letter, nor suggest that I will be fined for your office not sending it to me. Also, not having received the original letter stating that I had been fined suggests that it is likely that some sort of problem in your mailing room and would suggest that correspondence to and from your office be made by registered delivery, albeit easier by telephone.

I hope this explains clearly why I feel I do not owe DVLA any form of financial penalty and hope that you are in a position to resolve the matter fairly.

[dojj]

they don't listen

the dvla and the llp are 2 different departments, the dvla got my letter, but that didn't stop the llp peeps sending me fines and stuff

 

if i have a moment i'll type up the whole letter they sent me, including why they don't snd out recorded deivery stuff

 

on the other hand, the guy i spoke ot on the phone said that they normally wait the 4 weeks for you to ask them why thigns havn't happened and then wait another 4 weeks before sending out the fines

 

unforntunatly though, the llp peeps won't give a rats unless you can provide them with a copy of the letter they are asking for, lots of peole say they've backed down, but even when faced with proof that they had the correct information, the letters still kept coming, so i've paid the bill and am now in the prosess of contesting it

[Anyamonsta]

I will not be paying this one. They can take me to court if they like but there is no mention of any fine on the instructions to send the notification slip in therefore no reason for me to feel that the mistake / oversight is mine.

[lonerider]

I am to, also not going to pay and have a date at county court. I dont recieve a tax reminder, so I get a V890 for, send it back as SORN. months later from a DCA get a fine. Phone DVLA, not interested. Ask them for my original SORN that I sent them, and it is sent back. This has the correct date for SORN. Still going to get a fine because they dont receive my SORN in time. I sent it on time, well on time. Phone DVLA (Deliberately violating Local Authority) still not interested. Asked DVLA do you lose items,they say NO. I fired of many Freedom Of Information Requests guess what, they lose internal mail ALL the time.

 

If you are truly not guilty, fight it. The DVLA is just a cowboy outfit. Yes it will go to County Court, but dont be afraid. Remember that the DVLA were using Philips Collection Services whilst this DCA was being investigated for having unlicensed software on their 100 computers. DVLA knew about this as per FOIR made. So this just tell you, that the DVLA does not care, but its main goal is to collect revenue for their masters at Whithall.

 

Happy Days!

[xxtinyangelxx]

Iim seriously considering paying their stupid fine!! Im not keeping very well at the moment and could do without the pressure and the fight.

 

If id have been healthier it would be a different story

[dojj]

I am to, also not going to pay and have a date at county court. I dont recieve a tax reminder, so I get a V890 for, send it back as SORN. months later from a DCA get a fine. Phone DVLA, not interested. Ask them for my original SORN that I sent them, and it is sent back. This has the correct date for SORN. Still going to get a fine because they dont receive my SORN in time. I sent it on time, well on time. Phone DVLA (Deliberately violating Local Authority) still not interested. Asked DVLA do you lose items,they say NO. I fired of many Freedom Of Information Requests guess what, they lose internal mail ALL the time.

 

If you are truly not guilty, fight it. The DVLA is just a cowboy outfit. Yes it will go to County Court, but dont be afraid. Remember that the DVLA were using Philips Collection Services whilst this DCA was being investigated for having unlicensed software on their 100 computers. DVLA knew about this as per FOIR made. So this just tell you, that the DVLA does not care, but its main goal is to collect revenue for their masters at Whithall.

 

Happy Days!

 

i'll be following this with intrest

 

they cheeky gits send you a letter after you pay them, even though you pay them in protest, to say "thank you for paying the fine for not declaring sorn"

 

and woe betide anyone who loses this letter because they can just send you another fine and, without this original letter you get screwed once more

[Anyamonsta]

The letter I sent, copied above, was returned the other day because I had miss typed my Reg' number. I was less than happy to say the least so I sent it back today with this attached:

 

 

(Address)

25/03/10

REF: (Reg)

Dear DVLA,

It would appear that in my last communication to you I miss typed my registration number. I apologies for this as I am mildly dyslexic but cannot help but wonder why, if you noted my address and the error, you did not simply highlight it as such, an error. I am more than confident that if you search your database for the above address, the correct registration number will be displayed and common sense will prevail allowing you to see that two of the digits were simply the wrong way around. Not the gravest error in the world and certainly not good reason to prolong this ridiculous problem any longer.

I’m honestly disgusted at the way in which the DVLA is wasting both time and money over this whole affair and think that should it continue much longer I will escalate it as far as possible. You have, so far, posted three letters (Four if including the one I didn’t receive) plus the time taken to type and seal the them physically. I myself, have also spent far too much of my own time writing and posting responses to a simple problem that should have been resolved weeks ago.

So, I return to you the exact same letter that you have childishly returned and ask again that you look at it as you should have done in the first place.

So far this very simple problem has snowballed into the following errors:

• You failed to notify me that I had been fined as you have allegedly not received, or most likely misplaced, my V5C/3.

• You then doubled the fine and gave final notice without getting any form of explanation from myself. Am I really guilty until proven innocent over such a trivial matter?

• You then decided that as I could not provide the letter that YOU did not send to me, I was still liable but graciously halved the value to £40. (How very insulting... How could I possibly provide you with a letter that you did not send, and how is it that you still at this point assume that the error is mine. Think logically and tell me which is more likely... that one man misplaced one piece of paper before sealing and posting an empty envelope without noticing! OR, that one of your many staff, opened one of your many mail bags, and one of the hundreds of envelopes in it was accidentally discarded or misplaced somewhere within your sizable building.)

 

• I telephoned, as this is both quick and easier that writing, but the call staff member that I spoke to was both rude and dismissive. And, once I finally got to explain my dilemma on the phone I was hung up on. How very, very offensive and massively unprofessional. Excellent value for public money!

• Having written to you, my letter has now been returned over a minor typing error. Surely this is not justification for returning the letter further delaying the process. I fully understand that the vehicle plate that I quoted as reference was incorrectly typed, but fail to see how common sense did not allow the person who dealt with it to see that two digits typed the wrong way around is simply cause for confirmation, not really a valid/good reason reject the letter.

 

Again, I ask you to read my letter, mistypes and all. I also, again, would like to contest the fine which is at the centre of this whole fiasco. I am honestly stunned at how much time, energy and money in wages and postal costs is being spent on this ordeal and must question the financial viability of what you are doing. Surely now that you are taking the time to read and respond to this the cost for the DVLA is far over the £40 - £80 that you are trying to unfairly ask of me.

 

I eagerly await your response,

 

 

 

Me.

 

P.S. Should you wish to save a little time and money you could Email me on the following address: [email protected]

This is a quick and secure way to deal with correspondence which also has the added advantage of providing proof of being sent with an electronic Time/Date stamp. I see no sensible reason why this would be slower, less secure or less cost effective for you.

[Anyamonsta]

The above letter is actually toned down a lot. The original was a little sharper than that but I read it back and decided that it was far to aggressive and should be calmed down a little.

There is no way I'm paying them though...

[foghornPICKEFOO]

not related to this thread sorry, but the elusive Patricia Woolley is my mother in law. She's actually a really nice lady. I know that doesn't really help anyone here

[Anyamonsta]

RESULT ! ! !

Got a reply to the above letters.

The DVLA have responded as follows:

 

"Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the late licensing penalty requested from you for allegedly failing to re-license your vehicle as required.

The contents have been noted and under the circumstances, no further action will be taken on this case.

Yours sincerely,

Mrs P Woolley. "

 

Finally, some sense from Sidcup !

 

As for Mr FoghornPICKEFOO's comment above, I don't doubt that Mrs Woolley is as normal and as nice to know as anyone else on a personal level. But, I did not deal with her on a personal level. I fully understand that she personally did not try to charge me and that it was the company that she works for... but that does not make me want to pay them any more than I did before, nor does it mean that I am going to lie down and be stolen from.

[Big Bill]

I met Alison Woolley after she took over from Steve Alexander as head of customer amd compliance at the DVLA. It does seem a coincidence that there should be two Mrs Woolleys at the DVLA.