What will happen when the DVLA cease to issue real tax discs. The European Police will then have to consult the EUCARIS database held in the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg. That database does not include the validity of the Excise Duty payment only the date of first registration and the name of the registered keeper. That name is often inaccurate since the best the DVLA have achieved is 1 in 35 of the registered keepers of vehicles cannot be traced from the vehicle register it often as bad as 1 in 23 therefore they rarely bother. Other police forces do not have access to that data and simply rely on the Registration Certificate and the insurance certificate or Green Card. Often foreign registration of a UK vehicle is horrendously expensive which is why ex-pats use a UK registered car even after its tax runs out. It is cheaper to buy an old banger locally but you cannot do that in every country you get to on an extended tour. So the only way is to insure your vehicle abroad it can be less expensive than you think, and then tour the world. Once you are overseas SORN your vehicle on line and raise two fingers to the DVLA. Some countries require the MOT certificate whilst others require their own Technical test certificate valid within the EU but not outside the EU The only problem arises when you return to the UK. You must get the tax at the port of entry ASAP and that will mean that you need to get UK Insurance and a quick trip to a pre-arranged MOT before you can use it on the highway. The port will want you off their patch ASAP so it must be organised to that effect.

I have subscribed to that thread.

Has anyone else had the misfortune to have their application form to register an imported vehicle tampered with so that the vehicle is then made to appear much older than it actually is. If so please contact me with the details. Big Bill

Don't hold your breath! but you may be lucky as the Bike was first registered in the EU. After 2004 the Directive EC 37/1999 applies and the harmonised parameter date of first registration is defined as the date on which the vehicle was administratively authorized to enter service in road traffic identified and issued with a serial number known as the registration number for the first time. That is defined in UK legislation by Regulation 10A of the Road vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002. As far as tampering with the application form is concerned; according to the DVLA "Although there are no written instructions to do so it is common practice for the application form to be corrected". The DVLA also admit to rewriting a whole form with "addional information" and then processing that form as if the applicant had filled it in.

The Registered Keeper is not necessarily the owner of the vehicle and very few Keepers can actually prove that they own the vehicle. The registered keeper does not necessarily need a driving license so making your aged aunt who is registered blind the registered keeper solves a lot of problems. The vehicle owner (who is not registered by the DVLA and cannot be located by the DVLA) can permit any licensed driver who has his own "Any other vehicle" insurance policy to drive that vehicle without the knowledge of the registered keeper. Thus limiting the powers of the BPA to practically nil. Unless of course the DVLA extend another SI to those Rogue Clampers and that states " References to the owner are to the person who is the keeper of the vehicle at that time" In recording a date, time and place of all vehicles, is the parking management company actually invading the privacy of the drivers of the other cars, not the ones who overstay, which might make the ANPR cameras unlawful . Food for thought?

Has any one else noted that the Protection of freedoms Act that came into force in October 2012 also amended the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. It expanded the definition of road (highway maintained at public expense) to include "or other land". The Secretary of State for Transport ( DVLA) can then by regulation (SI introduced by the DVLA) delegate the powers of the local council to the parking management companies of the BPA. That will mean that a single MP ( Mike Penning ?) will have the power to reverse the Protection of Freedoms Act and legalize the the clamping and towing away from private land.The Rogue Clampers will then be legalized. Keep checking the Draft SI's to see when that happens.

The DVLA's own annual reports (available on-line) show that over the last few years they cannot trace the registered keeper of a vehicle from their Vehicle Register in between 1 in 23 and 1 in 34 cases. The target is better than 4%. The situation with the Driver Register is even worse where the driver cannot be traced from the record in nearly 25% of cases. The target is 20%. How on earth can they be allowed to continue issuing penalties "from the record" with that level of inaccuracy.

Make certain that you do turn up on time at the court because in these cases the court automatically finds you guilty if you do not turn up. The DVLA might be using misinformation to cause you to be found guilty in your absence.

Somebody is telling lies and I wonder who?

These regulations are made under powers in section 7A of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994, as amended by the Finance Act 2002. The amendments cover continuous registration and the power to enforce directly from the record, and create a new criminal offence of being the registered keeper of an unlicensed vehicle. They give specific powers to the Secretary of State to levy an automatic supplement on those keepers who fail to license their vehicles on time. The regulations set the level of the new penalty for those who are served with notices following their failure to license their vehicles on time, or to make a statutory off-road notification if they intend to take a vehicle off the road. The proposed penalty is £80, reduced to £40 if paid within 28 days of the notice being served. That penalty will apply if a keeper fails to license a vehicle or to make a statutory off-road notification within a month of the expiry of the previous licence or statutory off-road notification. The regulations also prescribe that the registered keeper of the vehicle shall be liable to pay the penalty. This is taken directly from the explanatory notes to parliament.

The legislation actually allows 28 days between expiry and a SORN application look it up your self. The DVLA and their cohotrs may tell you different. The DVLA cannot fine you they apply a penalty charge that can only be recovered through the courts. It is not a "fine" only the courts can Fine you.

Lonerider Can you please contact Big Bill (you have my email if not PM will do) have some important news for you.

In this years accounts for the year 2009-2010 the DVLA admit that the Vehicle register is only 97.1% accurate ( 96.7 previous year) which means that there are about 1.25 million vehicles whose record is inaccurate. That probably accounts for the majority of the so-called uninsured vehicles on the road. the rest are hardly going to be put off. A young lad buys a very cheap car for cash with ten months MOT and tax then gets someone with a declared interest to insure it RTA only for a few pounds and lo and behold it passes all roadside checks. Only the lad driving is not insured. and already banned so TWOCing is not a problem to him but the insurance companies are loosing out. For this when my insurance on the camper van runs out on the 27th June and i don't use it again untill September. My choice is simple, either I cease to use it for the last three weeks and SORN it or re-insure. either way I lose out. I would normally leave it taxed and only insure for the next outing. The insurance companies are laughing all the way to the bank and the DVLA are waiting to pounce with the proposed £1000 penalty charge.

CEO of the DVLA (Simon Tse was Noel Shanahan)---- 01792 782798 ---- [email protected] (was Noel shanahans personal assistant ) [email protected] .uk (CEO's Office) Head of Local Services Network (David Marshalsay)( also Ann Jones)--- 01792 788 233 --- [email protected] k Head of Customer Services and Compliance(Mrs Alison Wolley)---01792 788 225 Drivers customer services----01792 782 255 Switchboard? --- 01792 772232 Always ask to be transfered internally and do not allow them to put you off by ringing the 0870 or any other number. Don't forget to put 141 in front of the number so that the recipient cannot tell that it is not an internal call

It seems that the DVLA will be in charge of Continuous Insurance Enforcement with all th problems that will bring. I wonder how they will cope with a neighbour's land rover. He uses it intermittently for "Mud Plugging" and only insures it for those occasions. For the rest of the year he allows me and several others to use it on our own "RTA only" insurance (You bend it you mend it). The present wording of the law cannot cope with that just as it cannot cope with hire cars that are only insured during the hire period and lease hire cars where the registered keeper has the responsibility to insure but is not the owner and therefore does not give a damn if the car gets crushed. The latter have special provisions made for them but what will happen to the owners of classice and vintage cars that are only insured for the dutation of the events and where the car is tax exempt. It is a cock-up waiting to happen and the DVLA will no doubt take full advantage in the issuing of penalty charges. The continuous registration debacle was supposed to bring in £30,000,000 a year but actually costs the taxpayer £18,000,000. When your insurance ends mid month are your prohibitted from using the car for the first half because it must be SORN'D for the whole month or are you allowed to use it up to the last day of the insurance and only SORN it at the begining of the next month? There are too many pitfalls that will be used to make the motorist pay more. I am waiting to see who is the first to post about geting "fined " for no insurance.

The car should have a VRM with an N or P prefix. If the VRM is 01 or 51 (2001) then it would be fraudulent to sell the car as being of that age and the person who registered it might have inadvertently comitted fraud when registering it. The DVLA's rules were very misleading at that time and still are for that matter. If it is a RHD version the it probably came from Japan or Australia and could easily have been previously regstered there. The DVLA take the view that if they get it wrong and issue a Vehicle Registration Mark that makes the car look younger than it actually is then it is the applicant who comitted the offence because he or she did not stop the DVLA from getting it wrong and this is a criminal offence with up to two years imprisonment.

The inside of the new V5C is almost identical to the old one. Page 3 has a different wording at the top and a new section 12. I have tried to attach a picture of the front and the changes inside. The advert to the right is none of my doing and sorry included some text that was not intended to be included. The extract below is taken from an SI.doc

Sorrry Buzby but the law is on the side of the DVLA. This is an extract from the SI that allows the DVLA and their agents to take possession of a car without a court order. This would normally be a tortious act against the "owner" of the goods and contrary to the oldest legislation in this country the C 15 of the 1267 Statute of Marlborough, which makes it unlawful to apply distraint to any goods without a court order. References to the "owner" of a vehicle at a particular time are to the person by whom it was then kept and the person in whose name the vehicle is registered at a particular time shall be taken, unless the contrary is shown, to be the person by whom the vehicle was kept at that time. So unless the owner can prove otherwise the RK is the owner.

I rest my case

This stupidity started in the USA and some prats are still trying to say that because the state authorities register the ownership of your car it means that the state "owns" the car and only leases it to you. Ignore John Harris et al and remember " never argue with an idiot he will bring you down to his level and then beat you with his experience".

First thing to do is take off the number plates and cover up the VIN if it is visible from the outside. This prevents NCP or other robbers from Identifying the car and if they cannot identify it they cannot remove it. Then set about sorting out the mess.

Do you also advocate driving down to Swansea when the problem is there? I much prefer to talk to the organ grinder and noty the monkey.

Writing is a waste of time because unless you send it recorded delivery there is a high chance that it gets filed in the green bin. Even mail gets lost after it has been recorded as received. I know of one instance where the DVLA claim that the envelope was empty because they could not find a record of its contents. Ringing the phone on their desk certainly gets their attention. It usually produces results very quickly especially if you threaten to ring the CEO directly.

Perhaps we can start a DVLA directory of Phone numbers and email addresses that actually work. My conribution is:- CEO of the DVLA (Simon Tse was Noel Shanahan)---- 01792 782798 ---- [email protected] (was Noel shanahans personal assistant )[email protected] (CEO's Office) Head of Local Services Network (David Marshalsay)( also Ann Jones)--- 01792 788 233 --- [email protected] Head of Customer Services and Compliance(Mrs Alison Woolley)---01792 788 225 Manager DVLA Bristol (Paul Edwards) -- 01179 748125 Head of Enforcement (Steve Alexander) --- 01792 ?????? This is the one we really need for SORN etc. Drivers customer services----01792 782 255 Switchboard? --- 01792 772232 Can anyone supply a copy of the internal telephone directory it is not restricted information? Tips:- Always ask to be transfered internally and do not allow them to put you off by ringing the 0870 or any other number. Don't forget to put 141 in front of the number so that the recipient cannot tell that it is not an internal call

Perhaps we can start a DVLA directory of Phone numbers and email addresses that actually work. My conribution is:- CEO of the DVLA (Simon Tse)---- 01792 782798 ---- [email protected]@dvla.gsi.gov.uk Head of Local Services Network (David Marshalsay) --- 01792 788 233 Head of Customer Services and Compliance(Mrs Alison Woolley)---01792 788 225 Manager DVLA Bristol (Paul Edwards) -- 01179 748125 Head of Enforcement (Steve Alexander) --- 01792 ?????? This is the one we really need for SORN etc. Drivers customer services----01792 782 255 Switchboard? --- 01792 772232 Always ask to be transfered internally and do not allow them to put you off. Don't forget to put 141 in front of the number so that the recipient cannot tell that it is not an internal call