no jsa for 5 weeks!

[angryandy]

Hi all, just wondering if any of you would be able to help me.

 

I left my self employed job on the 2nd june as i was making a loss rather than a profit.

 

I spoke to job centre plus who confirmed that i was entitled to job seekers allowance but would have to fill some forms in and make a few telephone calls etc etc.

 

At this time i let working tax credits know that i was no longer working so they would stop paying me. They said they will give me four weeks roll on of the tax credits as they do but it would be in the form of a giro rather than in my bank account.

All well and good so far but the thing is now is that i still haven't recieved any jsa so far and i won't get any until the 3rd july. They say they won't back date it to the 2nd june because i was still getting tax credits.

From what i got told when i first went the job centre they said they would still back date it. Basically i want to know who is right. Are they trying it on or are they in their rights to do this? Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[ErikaPNP]

Backdating is only usually done to the date you made the claim. Anything beyond that date is very rare. If you were receiving Tax Credit then depending on the amount you received they are right, as the JSA will likely be Income Based, which means that your benefit is reduced in line with your other household income.

 

I say this because self employed people usually pay class 2 NI rather than class 1. In order to receive contribution based jobseekers, you need to have paid enough class 1 NI contributions in the two years before you claimed jobseekers to qualify for contributory JSA.

 

In a nutshell, it is not the Jobcentre who are right, and they should not be giving you advice on whether or not the claim will be backdated, because ultimately it is the processing team who deal with your claim and who are fully trained in the processing of it.

 

What reason did the jobcentre say the claim would be backdated?

[angryandy]

Thanks Erika.

 

They never really give me a reason. I had my first interview on the 9th June and the first time i signed was on the 16th.

It was during the first interview that the guy said that i will recieve my first payment three days after signing on and it would be back dated to the 2nd June. I should have recieved my first payment then on the 19th June which would be back dated to the 2nd.

I checked my bank on the 19th and nothing had been paid in. A good few phone calls and some days later i spoke to someone in the processing department who said i wasn't getting backpaid but they would send me an emergency payment of £31 and something pence. Thisn has got to last me until a week Friday.

That is the situation at the moment but i have two children to feed and my rent is due on the 1st. I have no savings as my old job didn't pay enough to put away for a 'rainy day'.

Also i have spoke to the council and they say it will take four weeks from now to process my claim for housing benefit. This is all well and good but considering i left my job on the 2nd June it will have been eight weeks before i get a penny to pay for my rent.

I think i must add also that this is the first time i have been on JSA and i do want to find work. I just need some help to do this and i feel that job centre plus and the local council are trying to make things as hard as possible for me in the hope i go back to my old job.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read my thread and answering it. Anymore advice would be great if you can!!!!

[ErikaPNP]

Rest assured that whilst you will come across some people in these positions with an unfortunate attitude and ones who provide the wrong information there are some who will go out of their way to help. That doesn't help you at the moment though, I know.

 

The jobcentre should never have advised you it would be backdated as I said. This is for the processing team to decide.

 

Ask the processing section what your "date of claim" is. This is the date the form is received in any jobcentreplus office, if you completed a claim form that is, or if you telephoned to claim it is the date you claimed over the telephone. That is your "date of claim" and is when any back payment should be made to, but as I said any other "household income" is taken into account so it may not be backdated if the income was above the threshold

 

What you have received is an "interim payment" by the sounds of it, if it was issued by jobseekers allowance. This is designed to "get you by".

 

What they have given you calculates as less than the living expenses you need to last that length of time, particularly if you have children. Once that money runs out, if you have no other means of income and have no food/gas/electricity, ask the jobcentre for the telephone number for Crisis Loans. This is a free phone telephone number and it varies depending on where you live. I will pre warn you it can take ages to get through as they are extremely busy. When you hear the automated voice giving you the options, the one you want is Crisis Loans/living expenses. It usually goes like this: press any key to continue, then option 1 at the first menu and option 2 at the second menu. (No, I don't ring Crisis Loans regularly, I just support people in getting their entitlements!). The best time to get through is early in the morning, the lines open in some areas at 8:30, though in some areas it is 9am. Tell them the situation, that you are waiting for JSA to be sorted out, how long it's been, they will ask questions such as other resources you may have. There is a catch to this......if you are entitled to JSA and should have had your payment but the payment of your benefit is delayed, and it is not your error, Crisis Loans will liaise with JSA processing to sort it out ASAP. This is because Crisis Loans should not be paid when benefit is due. In the meantime, if Crisis Loans feel there is a serious and immediate threat to your health and safety or that of your family, they will issue a payment that same day to you. You pop down to the local jobcentre with two forms of ID, sign the offer letter and get your giro. This soes have to be paid back out of your JSA once it is in payment, but essentially, if it is due to be paid and hasn't been they will see to it that it gets paid. But be aware if it is not yet due for any reason, they will not be able to liaise with JSA, and you don't need to ask them to liase. They can access basic details about your JSA claim from their computer and if they cannot see any reason for it not being in payment, they will contact JSA. They might not tell you they are doing this, they will just say they are going to make their decision and either pop you on hold or ring you back.

 

Once JSA have all the details they require to process your claim, the AACT (Actual Average Clearance time) used to be 11 and a half days, however this can vary greatly depending on how many claims they have. This is how long it should take to process a claim but bear in mind that with the recession in full swing there will be a lot more claims than usual and they won't have any more staff employed to deal with them so the clearance time may well have changed and also although the clearance time is there, reality can be very different. The AACT is based on working days, not calendar days. See the link, from May 09 Jobseeker's Allowance: 21 May 2009: Written answers and statements (TheyWorkForYou.com)

 

When did you claim housing benefit and council tax benefit? The AACT for housing benefit is 14 working days, but again in reality this can take longer. If you have provided them with all the information they require to make their decision and 14 working days have passed, and you are renting privately you have a right to have a reasonable sum of housing benefit paid, based on an estimate of your entitlement. They can only refuse to do this if you refuse to provide them with the information they require, the AACT has not passed or it is obvious that you would not be entitled to Housing Benefit.

Edited June 26, 2009 by ErikaPNP

[installspark]

Also i have spoke to the council and they say it will take four weeks from now to process my claim for housing benefit. This is all well and good but considering i left my job on the 2nd June it will have been eight weeks before i get a penny to pay for my rent.

 

When did you claim housing benefit and council tax benefit? The AACT for housing benefit is 14 working days, but again in reality this can take longer. If you have provided them with all the information they require to make their decision and 14 working days have passed, and you are renting privately you have a right to have a reasonable sum of housing benefit paid, based on an estimate of your entitlement. They can only refuse to do this if you refuse to provide them with the information they require, the AACT has not passed or it is obvious that you would not be entitled to Housing Benefit.

 

The AACT of 14 days (not working days) starts from when the LA (Local Authority) has received al relevant documentation. This is set in statute under The Housing Benefit Regulations 2006 s89 which states

 

Decisions by a relevant authority

89.—(1) Unless provided otherwise by these Regulations, any matter required to be determined under these Regulations shall be determined in the first instance by the relevant authority.

 

(2) The relevant authority shall make a decision on each claim within 14 days of the provisions of regulations 83 and 86 being satisfied or as soon as reasonably practicable thereafter.

 

(3) Without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing provisions of this regulation, in a case where a person—

 

• (a) made the notification specified in paragraph 2 of Schedule 7 within 14 days from the day immediately after the day on which his entitlement to income support or an income-based jobseeker's allowance ceased ("the appropriate day") and is treated as having claimed an extended payment under regulation 72(2); and
   
  (b) has made a claim, which meets the requirements of regulation 83(1), (6) and (9), within 14 days of the appropriate day,
   
  
  

the relevant authority shall give priority to that claim over other claims which do not fall within the provisions of this paragraph.

 

You have a period of one month in which to provide the evidence required, as per regulation 86(1)

 

Evidence and information

86. —(1) Subject to paragraph (2) and to paragraph 5 of Schedule A1[176] (treatment of claims for housing benefit by refugees), a person who makes a claim, or a person to whom housing benefit has been awarded, shall furnish such certificates, documents, information and evidence in connection with the claim or the award, or any question arising out of the claim or the award, as may reasonably be required by the relevant authority in order to determine that person's entitlement to, or continuing entitlement to, housing benefit and shall do so within one month of being required to do so or such longer period as the relevant authority may consider reasonable.

 

Furthermore, if the 14 day period has expeired and the LA has not made a decision then a payment on account should be made, the LA is required to make this payment without request from yourself. The payment on account is stipulated under regulation 93 (1) to 93 (3)

 

Payment on account of a rent allowance

93.

—(1) Where it is impracticable for the relevant authority to make a decision on a claim for a rent allowance within 14 days of the claim for it having been made and that impracticability does not arise out of the failure of the claimant, without good cause, to furnish such information, certificates, documents or evidence as the authority reasonably requires and has requested or which has been requested by the Secretary of State, the authority shall make a payment on account of any entitlement to a rent allowance of such amount as it considers reasonable having regard to—

(a) such information which may at the time be available to it concerning the claimant's circumstances; and

(b) any relevant determination made by a rent officer in exercise of the Housing Act functions.

(2) The notice of award of any payment on account of a rent allowance made under paragraph (1) shall contain a notice to the effect that if on the subsequent decision of the claim the person is not entitled to a rent allowance, or is entitled to an amount of rent allowance less than the amount of the payment on account, the whole of the amount paid on account or the excess of that amount over the entitlement to an allowance, as the case may be, will be recoverable from the person to whom the payment on account was made.

 

(3) Where on the basis of the subsequent decision the amount of rent allowance payable differs from the amount paid on account under paragraph (1), future payments of rent allowance shall be increased or reduced to take account of any underpayment or, as the case may be, overpayment.

 

All too often LA benefit staff will try and tell you that they can take anywhere between 2 weeks and 6 weeks to process a claim, this comes from a lack of understanding of the regulations in many cases.

 

If you have received the notification of your JSA, or as soon as you receive it, take the notification to your LA. JCP will notify the LA of your entitlement to benefit but this can take up to 4 weeks to be processed by the LA. (This is based on my experience of notifications)

 

You may find these useful:

 

RR2 - A guide to Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit (October 2006)

 

The Housing Benefit Regulations 2006

The Council Tax Benefit Regulations 2006

 

 

[ErikaPNP]

The AACT of 14 days (not working days) starts from when the LA (Local Authority) has received al relevant documentation. This is set in statute under The Housing Benefit Regulations 2006 s89 which states

 

Decisions by a relevant authority

89.—(1) Unless provided otherwise by these Regulations, any matter required to be determined under these Regulations shall be determined in the first instance by the relevant authority.

 

(2) The relevant authority shall make a decision on each claim within 14 days of the provisions of regulations 83 and 86 being satisfied or as soon as reasonably practicable thereafter.

 

(3) Without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing provisions of this regulation, in a case where a person—

 

• (a) made the notification specified in paragraph 2 of Schedule 7 within 14 days from the day immediately after the day on which his entitlement to income support or an income-based jobseeker's allowance ceased ("the appropriate day") and is treated as having claimed an extended payment under regulation 72(2); and
   
  (b) has made a claim, which meets the requirements of regulation 83(1), (6) and (9), within 14 days of the appropriate day,
   
  
  

the relevant authority shall give priority to that claim over other claims which do not fall within the provisions of this paragraph.

 

You have a period of one month in which to provide the evidence required, as per regulation 86(1)

 

Evidence and information

86. —(1) Subject to paragraph (2) and to paragraph 5 of Schedule A1[176] (treatment of claims for housing benefit by refugees), a person who makes a claim, or a person to whom housing benefit has been awarded, shall furnish such certificates, documents, information and evidence in connection with the claim or the award, or any question arising out of the claim or the award, as may reasonably be required by the relevant authority in order to determine that person's entitlement to, or continuing entitlement to, housing benefit and shall do so within one month of being required to do so or such longer period as the relevant authority may consider reasonable.

 

Furthermore, if the 14 day period has expeired and the LA has not made a decision then a payment on account should be made, the LA is required to make this payment without request from yourself. The payment on account is stipulated under regulation 93 (1) to 93 (3)

 

Payment on account of a rent allowance

93.

—(1) Where it is impracticable for the relevant authority to make a decision on a claim for a rent allowance within 14 days of the claim for it having been made and that impracticability does not arise out of the failure of the claimant, without good cause, to furnish such information, certificates, documents or evidence as the authority reasonably requires and has requested or which has been requested by the Secretary of State, the authority shall make a payment on account of any entitlement to a rent allowance of such amount as it considers reasonable having regard to—

(a) such information which may at the time be available to it concerning the claimant's circumstances; and

(b) any relevant determination made by a rent officer in exercise of the Housing Act functions.

(2) The notice of award of any payment on account of a rent allowance made under paragraph (1) shall contain a notice to the effect that if on the subsequent decision of the claim the person is not entitled to a rent allowance, or is entitled to an amount of rent allowance less than the amount of the payment on account, the whole of the amount paid on account or the excess of that amount over the entitlement to an allowance, as the case may be, will be recoverable from the person to whom the payment on account was made.

 

(3) Where on the basis of the subsequent decision the amount of rent allowance payable differs from the amount paid on account under paragraph (1), future payments of rent allowance shall be increased or reduced to take account of any underpayment or, as the case may be, overpayment.

 

All too often LA benefit staff will try and tell you that they can take anywhere between 2 weeks and 6 weeks to process a claim, this comes from a lack of understanding of the regulations in many cases.

 

If you have received the notification of your JSA, or as soon as you receive it, take the notification to your LA. JCP will notify the LA of your entitlement to benefit but this can take up to 4 weeks to be processed by the LA. (This is based on my experience of notifications)

 

You may find these useful:

 

RR2 - A guide to Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit (October 2006)

 

The Housing Benefit Regulations 2006

The Council Tax Benefit Regulations 2006

 

 

Thank you for clarifying that the 14 days are calendar. I know with DWP it's busniess days, and wrongly assumed HB was the same!

[angryandy]

Thanks alot in clearing some of the issues for me. I just need clarification on the housing benefit if it's possible. My JSA claim has now gone through so does that mean the council now have 14 calendar days to start paying me housing benefit. Also would this be back dated to the 2nd June because if it's not i would be a month behind on my rent with no way of paying it. I hope you can understand what i mean as i'm not great with writing things down.

Again thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my thread.

Andy

[ErikaPNP]

Hi Andy. The 14 days begin from when they have all the information they require to process the claim. In regard to back dating, I'm not entirely sure how that would work as I'm not savvy on Housing Benefit. I know that with DWP benefits they only backdate to the date you claimed, but not sure on how it would work with housing benefit as they are administered by different bodies.

[installspark]

Also would this be back dated to the 2nd June because if it's not i would be a month behind on my rent with no way of paying it. I hope you can understand what i mean as i'm not great with writing things down.

Again thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my thread.

Andy

 

For HB/CTB purposes, the backdating would be to 8th June. This is because the benefit week runs from Monday to Sunday and HB/CTB claims are treated as made the Monday following the receipt of the claim form. In terms of payment, although you will have missed out on the period 02/06 to 07/08, you will in effect get this back at the end of the claim.

 

Backdating and start of claim are covered by HB regulations 83(5) and 76 respectively.

[angryandy]

Thanks again Erika and Installspark. Installspark when you say i will get it at the end of the claim what does this mean? Does it mean i will be a month behind in my rent then? If so then is their any other people i can go to for an 'emergency payment' as such to clear my outstanding rent owed? Sorry for not understanding properly but not used to being in this situation. Thanks again for helping out

[installspark]

No, your entitlement for HB will be from 02/06, but will not be in payment until the following benefit week beginning 08/06. This shortfall of days is added to the end of the claim, the end of a benefit claim is the end of the benefit week following the change in circumstances. HB is normally paid in arrears.

 

You will receive a HB payment backdated to 08/06 once the claim has been processed.

 

For example, HB decision made on 01/07: You will receive a payment for the period 08/06 to 28/06. You end your HB claim 10/07 but will be paid until 19/07.

[angryandy]

Thanks very much for your help. I feel that is one load off my mind then. Thanks for taking the time to read and help me it is very much appreciated.

[installspark]

Thanks for taking the time to read and help me it is very much appreciated.

 

Even for those who are trained in benefits it can be a minefield at times; if it helps others then a few minutes of my time trying to provide clarification on benefits after/before going to work is time very well spent.

[patrickq1]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/207078-big-trouble-benefits-please.html

 

could you look into this erika please patrickq1