Is it possible to charge an administration fee to dca's f

[AzziDePazzi]

Years and years ago, I knew it was possible to send a fax to junk fax advertising companies stating that any more unsolicited messages shall be invoiced on a per-page basis.

 

Is it still possible to state a claim like this with regards to letters that are irrelevant, unlawful or vexatious after a default has been declared due to lack of enforceability?

 

Just an idea

[2Grumpy]

I have sent a letter to a DCA telling them that I charge £50 for dealing with any phone calls or replying to letters containing unlawful claims or demands.

 

Don't know if it will work because I haven't had any replies or phone calls since ...

 

Also added a fee for dealing with any representatives in person:)

[Kraken1]

folk have been successful. The trick seems to be to ensure that the charges are not stupid and you can show that there is a valid contract - this means having an offer, acceptance and consideration.

[lickthewallfatboy]

I've chased at least one DCA using this tactic.....it's gotta be worth a go

[accesspwd]

Surely its worth a go, some DCA's charge for sending us letters dont they and even phone calls (Welcome Finance do this). So in a way if we represent ourself as our own solicitor then we can charge £35 to reply to them in writting, £10 for a phone call etc...(providing the account is in genuine dispute) would i be right in saying this?

[harrassed senior]

It can't hurt to try can it, so give it a go.

[accesspwd]

Ill be right on it

[dcakiller]

Sounds good and if they do not pay up sell the debt on to another dca for a laugh

Edited June 17, 2009 by dcakiller
typo

[accesspwd]

Fair play, that gave me a giggle. Sell it back to their own company (doubtfull that will work mind, interesting though)

[dcakiller]

Fair play, that gave me a giggle. Sell it back to their own company (doubtfull that will work mind, interesting though)

 

Even better sell it to a sister company for say 10% of the ballance they will probably be so greedy for proffit that they will not check it out first:lol:

[accesspwd]

Right guys, lets get cracking - well get the DCA's to make themselves go bust by buying back their own debts mwahaha

[AzziDePazzi]

Well it'll definitely be worth mentioning that no reply means that they acquiesce.

 

Do they need a statutory period where they can contest the terms? And if so, how long? - This would be good to cover yourself legally.

 

Ideally you could maybe get enough letters from a company to cancel out the amount they think you owe them. Would make for an interesting negotiation to say 'well, I'm happy to settle your account after you've settled mine'.

 

Also, what might be a reasonable fee shedule? 2Grumpy, can you show us yours?

 

I will post a letter template on here after I have made one today or tomorrow, maybe someone can come in and add all the relevant law points to make the letter particularly potent?

[accesspwd]

Look forward to another post later Azz, See what we can draw together

[AzziDePazzi]

I'm working on a couple of letters now. One to give a notice of the fee schedule, one to state that they have been charged. I will need someone to help to create a lawful invoice letter as this is out of my scope.

 

I could do with a couple of bits of info:

 

1) I'm titling the letter 'Notice of Fee Schedule' - how long do they have to come back and contest or rebut my terms?

2) Does the DPA give us any rights to claim a recording of telephone conversations who claim to record their calls? (I'd like to charge for failure to supply stuff where possible) - evil.

3) Will they have a statutory period in which they can contest an individual charge?

 

Thanks =)

[accesspwd]

Just thought, would we need some form of consumer licence to issue such charges?

 

Oh yeah, if not, how about just copying one of the letter the DCA send us but just swap the details over from ours to theirs?

 

Just a quick thought..

[AzziDePazzi]

Ok, here's a couple of first drafts - Someone please go over it with a fine tooth comb and adjust where appropriate:

 

------TO NOTIFY A FEE SCHEDULE (WARNING!!! DRAFT ONLY!)------

 

**YOUR ADDRESS**

**DCA'S ADDRESS**

 

 

Notice of Fee Schedule

 

Ref: **REFERENCE NUMBER OF ALLEGED ACCOUNT**

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

As you are aware, this account had entered default on **DATE** and as you are no-doubt aware, section 77(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states:

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

To re-iterate your obligations:

 

- You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

- You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

- You may not pass the account to a third party.

- You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

- You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

Therefore, any attempt to pursue this alleged debt will result in **DCA** being charged in accordance to the following Fee Schedule:

 

For any letters received from **DCA** containing unlawful claims or demands: £25 per letter

 

For any telephone contact from your company regarding this account: £50 per call

 

For passing/selling this account onto 3rd parties: £500 per contravention

 

For any erroneous default notices issued to this account: £250 per erroneous notice

 

For any letters I need to write to **DCA** in response to letters containing unlawful claims or demands, telephone contact regarding this account, passing/selling this account onto 3rd parties and any erroneous default notices INCLUDING letters notifying you of charges incurred: £10

 

 

You shall be notified of all fees that you incur in writing. ***I need help on invoicing terms here:

- is there a way to make sure these charges don't expire?

- do they have a statutory period in which they can dispute a charge?

- how do we define, in a nice way, that we reserve the right to invoice them when we see fit? ***

 

You have 28 days to confirm receipt of this letter. Please note that if I have not heard from you within 28 days, you are deemed to acquiesce to the above terms.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

AzziDePazzi

 

 

-----------------------------------------

------FOR TELEPHONE CONTACTS (WARNING!!! DRAFT ONLY!)------

 

**YOUR ADDRESS**

**DCA'S ADDRESS**

 

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref: **REFERENCE NUMBER OF ALLEGED ACCOUNT**

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

On **DATE OF CONTACT** at **TIME** you contacted me with regards to this account.

 

As you are aware, this account had entered default on **DATE** and as section 77(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 clearly states:

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Your attempt to pursue this alleged debt clearly breaches your obligations and therefore you have been charged £**XX**, in-line with the fee schedule that you have agreed to. A copy of my fee schedule is enclosed for your perusal.

 

To re-iterate your obligations whilst this account is in dispute:

 

- You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

- You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

- You may not pass the account to a third party.

- You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

- You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I continue to reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

AzziDePazzi =)

[accesspwd]

Fair play i like it.

 

Think i might crack onto this and give it a blast. Got nothing to lose and all the charges to gain.

 

well done Azz,

 

Any info on our legal right to do this would be a great help if possible guys. so get replying

[AzziDePazzi]

Hold back before you do accesspwd

 

It would still be useful for someone knowledgeable to go over the terms I used and make it more solid as well as working out the best way to invoice the DCA.

 

I wouldn't send out a fee schedule (if that's even the right term?) without informing them on how I plan to invoice them.

 

It might also be fair to include interest at the base rate if they don't pay within a certain period. However, I would waiver putting this into the terms if I knew I could charge a bulk amount at a later date.

 

Also, selling disputed accounts onto 3rd parties is a provable breach of Data Protection....so charging for DPA breaches is also feasible, right?

 

If this thread whittles out, I'll create a new one for just the letter templates.

Edited June 17, 2009 by AzziDePazzi

[accesspwd]

Sounds good to me Azzi

 

seems like your pretty switched on up there if you get me.

 

This thread got me held tight, i want more more more info ha

 

Well in insurance when you take out a policy you get the policy term, a schedule and certificate.

 

The schedule will have all the info of the company along with pinpointed accurate info, should any of it change or be wrong the policyholder would be charge of the policy become void if not notified upon receiving the document

 

so maybe we follow suite in a way and send them the same exept the certificate, unless we do send them a certificate congratulating them on there new agreement with us

 

Or maybe im taking this a step to far

[AzziDePazzi]

Sounds good to me Azzi

 

Well in insurance when you take out a policy you get the policy term, a schedule and certificate.

 

The schedule will have all the info of the company along with pinpointed accurate info, should any of it change or be wrong the policyholder would be charge of the policy become void if not notified upon receiving the document

 

so maybe we follow suite in a way and send them the same exept the certificate, unless we do send them a certificate congratulating them on there new agreement with us

 

 

Not sure about this area at all. I would assume one legal person (me) can apply a fee to another legal person (DCA) providing both parties agree.

 

I'd assume a certificate proves that the party is reputable and good for holding the money. What prerequisites does an entity need to obtain a certificate? Might this method make their payments subject to taxation?

 

To summarise all questions then:

1) What is the statutory period for a DCA to dispute or rebut the initial fee terms? And:

 

2) Can their lack of reply, or addressing your correspondence (which is normally the case) acquiesce them to these terms?

 

3) What is the statutory period for a DCA to contest a particular fee charge (eg, if they want to contest they made a phonecall, or sent a particular letter)

 

4) Does a person need any particular status to be able to charge fees? eg, a consumer license, certification etc. etc. -

 

5) Can Kraken1's comment of '...ensure that the charges are not stupid and you can show that there is a valid contract - this means having an offer, acceptance and consideration.' be expanded on by someone? -

 

According to Wikipedia an acceptance of an offer must be communicated unless it is a unilateral contract, where there can be exceptions.

 

5) Are the legal terms correct and/or can they be improved? Are we entering them into a fair contract? Obviously, from the sample letter, I want to charge them a lot more money for times when they clearly break the law.

 

Thanks for any help on this in advance

[rameses_qc]

For a contract to be binding, you need

 

• An Offer
  
• Acceptance of that offer
  
• Consideration
  
• Intention to create legal relations
  

You are offering to contract with the DCA

They must accept that offer. Silence is not acceptance

See

Lord Denning in Entores v Miles Far East Corp (1955)

 

 

The offeror cannot impose a contract on the offeree against his wishes by deeming that his silence should amount to an acceptance:

 

• Felthouse v Bindley (1862) 11 CBNS 869.
  

 

 

 

it is possible to have a binding contract without a matching offer and acceptance. See:

• Brogden v Metropolitan Railway Co. (1877) 2 App Cas 666
  
• Lord Denning in Gibson v Manchester City Council [1979] above
  
• Percy Trentham Ltd v Archital Luxfer Ltd [1993] 1 Lloyd's Rep 25.
  

[NailPost]

Agree with Rams. You would need the dca to agree to your terms and conditions and bearing in mind the template libaries in their system don't have anything that agrees to them paying money out - and bearing in mind most dca's file any letters that don't contain money or offers of payment in the bin the biggest problem you would have is enforcing any invoice due.

[accesspwd]

Nice post Azz

 

Also to add...

 

Just to go into a little details about DCA's, I dont know to much about laws and procedures to be totally honest.

 

So im just wondering on what ground someone has the right to buy somones debt, then add subsequent charges to that account.

 

Im assuming that the law would state you can buy a debt then add charges from there provided they are fair.

 

From our prospective we are not buying a debt but we are creating a debt in the DCA's name.

 

Would that be a fair ground to create a debt out of not offered, provided, or giving a service?

 

Im assuming we would need to register as a professional in some what relevant field?

 

Anything to add or answer would be great.

 

Thanks for listening to the blabbering on

[accesspwd]

For a contract to be binding, you need

 

• An Offer
  
• Acceptance of that offer
  
• Consideration
  
• Intention to create legal relations
  

You are offering to contract with the DCA

They must accept that offer. Silence is not acceptance

See

Lord Denning in Entores v Miles Far East Corp (1955)

 

 

The offeror cannot impose a contract on the offeree against his wishes by deeming that his silence should amount to an acceptance:

 

• Felthouse v Bindley (1862) 11 CBNS 869.
  

 

 

 

it is possible to have a binding contract without a matching offer and acceptance. See:

• Brogden v Metropolitan Railway Co. (1877) 2 App Cas 666
  
• Lord Denning in Gibson v Manchester City Council [1979] above
  
• Percy Trentham Ltd v Archital Luxfer Ltd [1993] 1 Lloyd's Rep 25.
  

 

 

An acceptance is needed to make a contract binding?

 

We dont accept for our debt to be sold on, nor to we accept any form of contract with the DCA, nor for them to add charges.

 

I take it somewhere along the line they are clearly eligable as this is what they do?

 

Sorry if im not getting this, i just want all the info i can get

 

Thanks

[AzziDePazzi]

For a contract to be binding, you need

 

• An Offer
  
• Acceptance of that offer
  
• Consideration
  
• Intention to create legal relations
  

You are offering to contract with the DCA

They must accept that offer. Silence is not acceptance

See

Lord Denning in Entores v Miles Far East Corp (1955)

 

 

The offeror cannot impose a contract on the offeree against his wishes by deeming that his silence should amount to an acceptance:

 

• Felthouse v Bindley (1862) 11 CBNS 869.
  

 

 

 

it is possible to have a binding contract without a matching offer and acceptance. See:

• Brogden v Metropolitan Railway Co. (1877) 2 App Cas 666
  
• Lord Denning in Gibson v Manchester City Council [1979] above
  
• Percy Trentham Ltd v Archital Luxfer Ltd [1993] 1 Lloyd's Rep 25.
  

 

Thanks for the help.

 

I have only really started getting into the swing of this stuff. I am really bad at reading cases but am walking through them now ... I'm a bit better at traipsing through the laws themselves.

 

Do you think there is there anything with regards to the last 3 cases that would have any applicability to all this?