Windywoo's OH v Cabot.

[Windywoo]

Leading on from my own experience with Cabot, I would appreciate some help with the following letter I received from them, for OH.

 

 

Dear Mr Windywoo

 

I refer to your letter dated 24th April 2008 and our letter dated 2nd June 2008.

 

I understand you have made a request for a copy of your credit agreement with Goldfish Bank Ltd, the original lender.

 

The Cabot Financial Group purchased your debt from Goldfish Bank on 11th April 2008.

 

In your letter dated 24th April 2008, your state you are entitled under sections 77-78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to a opy of the credit agreement that you signed with Goldfish Bank.

 

We have made several urgent requests to Goldfish Bank to forward any documentaion relationg to your account to us. Unfortunately, Cabot has not received documentation due to delay in retrieving this information from their archives.

 

Please be advised, that the failure to provide a copy of your agreement with the agreed time lines does not affect the legality of your debt with Cabot, but merely renders the credit agreement unenforceable until such time the agreement can be produced.

 

I can confirm that Cabot has taken the decision to treat the balance outstanding on the account as irrecoverable. Please note that this decision is not to be confused or interpreted as a write-off of the outstanding balance on your account as the debt legally remains. Please be advised the although Cabot has treated the above account as irrecoverable, we shall continue to report to the CRA's accordingly.

 

Notwithstanding the above, Cabot with continue to request these documents from the original lender and in the event that Cabot obtains the information as requested by you at a later date, we reserve the right to recommence collection on your account.

 

YS

 

The facts are - this account was taken over by Barclays in the early part of 2008. We have never received a DN, and to my knowledge there wasn't a NoA, just "hello" letter from Cabot. They admit they cannot collect on this account, but no doubt they have placed a default on OH credit file - I haven't looked, yet! In the light of their admission, potentionally, how can we get this removed, OH credit history is clean apart from this!!

 

TY all.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Windywoo
spelling

[42man]

Did you see this thread Windy - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/115280-useful-information.html

[PGH7447]

I would say you wont be able to get it removed, as they state in their letter the debt still exists but they cant collect on it due to non production of the agreement, this does not mean the debt has suddenly vanished

 

may be wrong but that is my take on it

[Windywoo]

Well, what a turn up for the books!

 

Today, I have just received a large package from Cabot. Inside they have sent me, statements, terms and conditions, NoA (alleged) and a copy of their "Hello" letter. In their covering letter, they have the audacity to say they have provided the information requested under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, YET, and this is the good bit:

 

"Further to your request, please find enclosed all of the relevant information. In addition we have enclosed other information as part of your request not applicable to sections 77-78 of the CCA (i.e representation of your notice of assignment and our introductory letter).

 

However, as the accounts were opened in 20XX, Golfish Bank Ltd no longer hold this documentation.

 

Notwithstanding the above I am enclosing the relevant statements in relation to your account. These clearly show that you have received and utilized the credit acrd made available to you. In addition they detail your failure to repay the debt to the original lender and Cabot, however the repayments you have made act as an acknowledgement of the debt.....

 

So what they are saying is, there is no credit agreement pertaining to this alleged debt, but they still expect payment - I don't think so!!

 

BTW, the T&Cs are completely illegible, there is no indication that they apply to the account, no name or address, so they could be anything!

 

Could anyone point me in the direction of a suitable response, please!

[PGH7447]

amend to suit

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On date I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/78. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on date.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company/Original Creditor and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

 

Furthermore

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days this alleged account is therefore in serious default.

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month it is in serious default.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

AS YOU HAVE FAILED TO COMPLY WITH A LAWFUL REQUEST FOR A TRUE, SIGNED COPY OF THE SAID AGREEMENT AND OTHER RELEVANT DOCUMENTS MENTIONED IN IT.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. – This you have now done, consequently I will be reporting your company to the relevant authorities which will include, but may not be limited to, Trading Standards and the Financial Ombudsman

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account. - This you claim to be doing in your letter dated 6 November 2007 and is further confirmed by the alleged balance increasing by £135.39.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[Windywoo]

Sent the letter to our friends at Cabot (TY PGH).

 

Been away for a week, and came home to a letter from Cabot dated 26th June (same date as I sent them my letter) thanking OH for his payment! (Silly chumps, do they really think they are going to get any money???)

In the meantime, they have been phoning OH at work, so today, the telephone letter is going off, along with a copy of the letter I sent them on 26th.

 

How difficult it is when you are dealing with such an ignorant outfit...!!

[PGH7447]

very, but most of the letters you wil get are automated so just file and ignore

[diddydicky]

i would write a letter of complaint to OFT with a copy to all the cra's enclosing a copy of their letter and complaining that the action they are proposing in relation to marking your credit files whilst at the same time admitting the de bt is unenforceable is a clear case of acting vindictively and vexatiously

 

its worth a try

[thrubolt]

Hi windywoo,

I see you have received the same TOSH from these misfits as my wife.They sent her a "Representation"of NOA, and representations of other documents.Not originals because the dates were this year, but they appear to have tried to "backdate" them. Utter nonsense Backdating 2, yes 2 years. Also using white tape to cover application form and say it is a full binding document, I still have the peely back for judge to see for himself. Also using different account numbers. this was back in April - have held out and heard nothing more. Suggest do same and let them give themselves enough rope.

[Windywoo]

Ok, received another load of nonsense from our friends at Cabot, a letter "explaining" why they should continue processing OH data, and again asking for payment. Oh, and despite me sending them the phone letter, OH still gets phone calls from a chap by the name of Anderson, (shame on you Mr Anderson) lol.

 

Firing off another letter today, drawing their attention to their ignorance of the law and regulatory rules, and the fact that we have written clarification from them that there is NO credit agreement for the alleged account, then that will be it, no further correspondence! If they decide to take the court route, then they will be in trouble methinks!

 

These idiots are sooo trying!! Lol

[mr.ton]

Its typical DCA behaviour that shouldnt come as suprise to anyone really.

[Windywoo]

Another load of codswallop from them today. They're "temporarily" taking OH works number off their system, pending him phoning them to offer some money (fat chance) athough, in the meantime he's had another call from them - this was on Monday.

 

"Can I speak Mr WW please? Yes, who's calling? It's Steve from Cabot. Can I have your surname, Steve? Oh no, I don't divulge that sort of information! Sorry, but then I can't speak to you, can I?" And OH hung up. I've told him, under no circumstances is he to have any verbal dialogue with these monkeys, put the phone down immediately.

 

I fired off another letter to them on the 9th July, so we'll wait and see what they come up with, and in the meantime I've also complained to Consumer Direct, next it'll be the OFT!!

[Windywoo]

Following the letter I sent on 9th July, there has been no further correspondence from them and no phone calls either!!

[Windywoo]

I was rather suprised to receive another begging letter from our friends dated 19th August, I've completely ignored it!!

[cerberusalert]

Charity begins at home.

[Windywoo]

Yet another "Please call us letter" arrived yesterday.

 

Don't these morons understand english - no CCA, no money!!!!!!

[Windywoo]

Right, another letter came this morning:

 

Dear Mr Windywoo

 

We've still not received any satisfactory response from you about repaying the above amount. Unless you contact us within the next 7 days we'll take action to recover this debt, together with any interest and charges which may be payable.

 

 

We'll either:

• Instruct an external collection agency to call on you to recover the debt.
  

Or

• Instruct a solicitor to start legal action. This may result in a County Court Judgement being obtained against you, which could severly affect your ability to obtain credit in the future.
  

County Court Judgement

 

If a County Court Judgement is enforced, this may lead to one or more of the following:

• A Charging Order - this means if you currently own your own property we'll register a Caution against your Title to the premises at HM Land Registry. Then If you sell the property all the money you owe to Cabot will be deducted from the proceeds of the sale and paid direct to us.
  
• An Attachment of Earnings Order - this means that the Court will order your employer to deduct set amounts from your pay to settle your debt to Cabot.
  
• Order to Obtain Information - this means that you'll be questioned in Court about your income, expenses and financial assets.
  

Blah blah!!

 

Now, I'm not phased by this at all, if they think they will succeed then let them take us to court - but, silly Cabot, you need paperwork, and you haven't got any, have you?????

 

Just as an after thought, is this a new template they are using? They seem to be substituting "may" for "we'll", or is this just a new frightener for the uninformed.

 

Anyhow, sent another stinking letter back, addressed to Lindsay Thomas "Senior Recoveries Manager"! Hello Lindsay, if you're looking in!! If they do take us to Court, then we'll take them to the cleaners and get every penny in damages we can!!

 

Any comments please!

[diddydicky]

Right, another letter came this morning:

 

Dear Mr Windywoo

 

We've still not received any satisfactory response from you about repaying the above amount. Unless you contact us within the next 7 days we'll take action to recover this debt, together with any interest and charges which may be payable.

 

 

We'll either:

• Instruct an external collection agency to call on you to recover the debt.
  

Or

• Instruct a solicitor to start legal action. This may result in a County Court Judgement being obtained against you, which could severly affect your ability to obtain credit in the future.
  

County Court Judgement

 

If a County Court Judgement is enforced, this may lead to one or more of the following:

• A Charging Order - this means if you currently own your own property we'll register a Caution against your Title to the premises at HM Land Registry. Then If you sell the property all the money you owe to Cabot will be deducted from the proceeds of the sale and paid direct to us.
  
• An Attachment of Earnings Order - this means that the Court will order your employer to deduct set amounts from your pay to settle your debt to Cabot.
  
• Order to Obtain Information - this means that you'll be questioned in Court about your income, expenses and financial assets.
  

Blah blah!!

 

Now, I'm not phased by this at all, if they think they will succeed then let them take us to court - but, silly Cabot, you need paperwork, and you haven't got any, have you?????

 

Just as an after thought, is this a new template they are using? They seem to be substituting "may" for "we'll", or is this just a new frightener for the uninformed.

 

Anyhow, sent another stinking letter back, addressed to Lindsay Thomas "Senior Recoveries Manager"! Hello Lindsay, if you're looking in!! If they do take us to Court, then we'll take them to the cleaners and get every penny in damages we can!!

 

Any comments please!

 

 

all that is needed is:-

 

Dear Sirs,

 

thank your for your letter of XXX Inst

 

the contents of your letter have been noted and i await your advices

 

yours sincerely

[Windywoo]

TY Diddydicky,

 

This really is p***ing me off. My two encounters with these idiots wasn't near as difficult as this, maybe because this is quite a substantial sum they're after, that they're a lot more persistant!

 

How do they think they can get a judgement in court when they have no paperwork?! - I suppose they rely on ignorance! :mad:It's obvious they don't read any of the correspondence they're sent, and just carry on with their ruthless campaign in the hope that somebody will pay - sickening!!

[diddydicky]

TY Diddydicky,

 

This really is p***ing me off. My two encounters with these idiots wasn't near as difficult as this, maybe because this is quite a substantial sum they're after, that they're a lot more persistant!

 

How do they think they can get a judgement in court when they have no paperwork?! - I suppose they rely on ignorance! :mad:It's obvious they don't read any of the correspondence they're sent, and just carry on with their ruthless campaign in the hope that somebody will pay - sickening!!

 

have you done the letter offering to go to where the original is to see it?

 

if not ill let you have a copy. always best at a later date to show that you bent over backwards to settle the matter

[Windywoo]

have you done the letter offering to go to where the original is to see it?

 

 

No original to see diddydicky, they admit they do not have the paperwork, that's the whole annoying thing about it!

 

I suppose they're desperate 'cause their profits were down this year!!

[diddydicky]

aren't you the lucky one!!

[Windywoo]

A little update to this thread:

 

We've received a couple more begging letters from our friends at Cabot, but, after a weeks holiday, came home and yes, another letter, this time offering such a good deal - 40% off, settlement required within thirty days!!

 

Could this possibly mean, that at last, they are beginning to get the message - no paperwork, no money! Sorry Cabot, not good enough - you 'aint getting a penny!!!

[twofoot]

In light of it being your OH only bad debt is it not worth a F&F offering them say 10% or even 5% with conditions attached like clearing CRA. Would certainly wind them up and if it's 'without predjudice' they can't use it against you in court. I'd do the 5% offer even if I'd no intention of paying just to wind them up. Make it clear that you will not haggle over the offer as this is all you can raise.

[diddydicky]

In light of it being your OH only bad debt is it not worth a F&F offering them say 10% or even 5% with conditions attached like clearing CRA. Would certainly wind them up and if it's 'without predjudice' they can't use it against you in court. I'd do the 5% offer even if I'd no intention of paying just to wind them up. Make it clear that you will not haggle over the offer as this is all you can raise.

 

quoting " to rid myself of the nuisance value of this claim"