Foreman Showed List Of Redundancies

[BIGJIM1965]

I Dont Know Where To Start On This But Here Goes. Our Company Announced They Were To Make 12 Redundancies Last Week. On Wednesday The Company Confirmed The 12 Jobs At Risk And Each Employee Would Be Taken To The Personnel Department By The Foreman, After Being Advised By Personnel Of Your Job At Risk, An Appointment Was Given For Next Week To Come Back, You Were Then Led Out Of The Building By The Foreman And Checked Out By Security. However, Unbelievably, When Leading The 1st Man Out Whos Job Was At Risk, As It Was His Mate, The Foreman Showed His Mate The List Of Jobs At Risk, With The 12 Names That He Was Taking To Personnel. When The 1st Man Got In To The Car Park, He Phoned Some Of The Men In The Factory Of The Names Of Individuals Whose Jobs Were At Risk. As You Could Imagine, Emotions Were Already Running High And War About Broke Out. Every Name He Gave Was On The List, When Finally Called In Some Individuals Who Knew They Were On The List Of Jobs At Risk Complained Bitterly To Personnel About This Information That Had Been Passed On. Personnel Do Not Know Who Got The Ball Rolling Ie Foremans Mate. Personnel Do Know It Was The Foreman Who Squeeled The List Of Names As He Was The Only Person Who Had It. Personnel Advised They Would Investigate This Matter. We Have Since Found Out They Have Questioned The Foreman Involved Who Now Denies All Involvement. The Point Being We Know He Is Lying. Some Of Us Want To Bring This Up Further When We Go Back In For 2nd Jobs At Risk Interview, However Some Dont As They Dont Want To Be Seen As Troublemakers And Fear When The Work Picks Up Again They Wont Get Asked Back. Tensions Are Very High And We Feel Something Should Be Done About This Foreman. Please, Please Can Somebody Give Us Any Advice On This Extremely Difficult Situation.

Edited May 15, 2009 by BIGJIM1965

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Bump

[Tawnyowl]

First of all know your rightshttp://www.thesite.org/workandstudy/working/workersrights/redundancy

[Tawnyowl]

http://www.thesite.org/workandstudy/working/workersrights/redundancy

[Tawnyowl]

I understand your anger at the foreman and what is at risk and what it means to you all.I suppose he also felt under pressure having to tell you this information and made a error of judgement which sounds like it possibly led to unpleasent scenes and raised emotions.As a outsider looking in by all means raise this matter at the at risk interview but i only see him getting a disciplinery at most.I wish you and your co workers all the best for the future.Keep posting any questions you may have.May i say i am no expert and only know what i have learnt on here and by looking around forums.All the best tawnyowl.

[elche]

Hi Bigjim

 

Whilst the foreman disclosing the list of at risk employees was clearly bad practice, it doesn't fundamentally and of itself make the actual redundancy process itself unfair.

 

It will be a private matter between your employer and the foreman as regards if he will be disciplined for this. As you are only 'at risk' at the moment, your job may yet be safe, and i wish you the best of luck.

 

Please come back if you have any additional questions.

 

Che

[BIGJIM1965]

Full investigation now under way. Company now going through grievance procedure. Matter now being dealt with managing director.

 

BIGJIM

[Tawnyowl]

What was the grievance reason-how did you and your workmates word it or raise it. Raising a grievance : Directgov - Employment

[Tawnyowl]

MD dealing with it-good.

[BIGJIM1965]

One of my colleagues, whose job is at risk, went in on monday for his second interview, whilst in he completed a grievance form. To be honest I do not know the exact wording taken but I heard it was "inappropriate, untimely action taken by foreman". Personnel advised him that this would be passed on to managing director and this matter will be fully investigated.

[Tawnyowl]

Good luck and hoping things work out for you and your workmates at your 2nd at risk interviews.Tawnyowl.

[BIGJIM1965]

Update...I had my second interview with personnel this morning, personnel confirmed investigation under way.

All individuals who were advised that there jobs were at risk, have been in for their second interview this week. All were given the opportunity to discuss the assessments that the company had scored for each employee. After each assessment, each employee has now been advised that they are to be made redundant. The company advised each person at the interview of their own redundancy package. Personnel have advised that individuals do have the right to appeal on the above. Several of us, do not agree with the marking system used on assessments and wish to appeal against this. We know of several employees who have the same skills or less than us but who also have bad timekeeping and attendance. Why are they still in the building? So the question is this:

 

A. We wish to appeal. Presumably we must put a letter in to personnel confirming that we wish to appeal against I presume unsatisfactory selection of redundancy taken by company? Is this an adequate reason for appeal?

B. Is there a timescale to send your letter of appeal in?

C. Some of my colleagues wish to take this all the road, if all fails they are talking about industrial tribunal. I take it that is when we would have to see a lawyer, bearing in mind we are non union.

 

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Tawnyowl]

Hi Bigjim-sorry about hearing this news.I will try to help you.Have a chew on this-other people will help soon-ive got some ideas just got to gather them together.Redundancy and leaving your job : Directgov - Employment

[Tawnyowl]

BigJIM-Its getting to the stage i feel you need proffessional advice as theres so much at stake.There are links on the posts i sent.I have read your post carefully and will keep posting ideas but i feel this is your best option.Please keep posting with any news.Iam sending you a link that may or may not ease your pain and anguish you must be feeling.Carry on -be strong.Tawnyowl Calculate your redundancy payout : Directgov - Do it online

[BIGJIM1965]

Foreman suspended pending company investigation.

[Tawnyowl]

Hi Big Jim-Will comment tonight on the foreman.Am just wondering how you and your workkmates are bearing up.Hows it gone down with family.Has the local press taken any interest.Tawnyowl.

[BIGJIM1965]

Foreman received written warning....

 

Now we have to battle to try and win our appeals.

 

Any info greatly appreciated.

[Tawnyowl]

Hi BigJim going to send you a few things-may be at intervals but may help.But maybe time for the proffesional thing.

Know your rights

 

Employers are legally obliged to follow strict procedures when making redundancies. Here is the least you should expect:

• If there are between 20 and 99 people* being made redundant, you and/or your employee rep (ie, your union, if you have one) should be given at least 30 days' notice; if more than 100 jobs are to go, 90 days' notice.

• Employers should try to find you alternative work in the organisation.

• Your employer may choose who to let go on the basis of scores, usually calculated using disciplinary and attendance records, qualifications and appraisals. They may also apply "last in, first out", although this has become more difficult in the wake of age discrimination laws.

• You will not be entitled to redundancy pay if you have been with your employer for less than two years. You should, however, get notice pay, which, by law, must be at least one week for each year's service (one week if you have completed one full month but less than a year) up to a maximum of 12 weeks.

• If you have worked for two or more years you have the right to statutory redundancy pay and a written statement explaining the amount, and how it was calculated.

• The lump sum depends on your age, length of service (maximum 20 years), and your earnings (capped at £350 a week). If you are under 22 you will receive half a week's pay for each year; between 22 and 41, one week for each year; if over 41, 1.5 weeks. The most statutory redundancy an individual can receive is £10,500.

• Payoffs are calculated in full years, but with no fractions. So if you have worked for 10 years and 11 months, it is counted as 10.

You can work out your statutory entitlement using the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform's ready reckoner.

If your employer cannot afford your redundancy payment in the short term, the Redundancy Payments Office may make the payment from the national insurance fund. If your employer goes bust, the office makes the payment and recovers the debt later. For more information visit the Insolvency Service website.

You have the right to appeal against redundancy. Try offering to work shorter hours or a pay freeze, for example. This might be attractive to an employer trying to cut costs.

You can take your case to an employment tribunal if you have grounds to dispute your employer's decision.

This might be because you feel you were not consulted properly under the rules, or suspect age or sex discrimination, or a failure to try and find you a suitable alternative in the workplace, or you disagree with the level of redundancy payment.

The TUC has a lengthy booklet on redundancy and your rights at worksmart.org.uk

[elche]

A. We wish to appeal. Presumably we must put a letter in to personnel confirming that we wish to appeal against I presume unsatisfactory selection of redundancy taken by company? Is this an adequate reason for appeal?

B. Is there a timescale to send your letter of appeal in?

 

Just to answer these two points BIGJIM.

 

A - Fundamental to a fair procedure in any redundancy where selection from pools is made, is a fair an objectively verifiable scoring criteria. Thus if you feel that you were selected unfairly because the scoring was flawed, then this alone, if you can prove it, could make your dismissal unfair.

 

B - Check your contract of employment / employee handbook. They should list the appeal time-scale. Most I see are 5-7 working days.

 

Good luck

 

Che

[shifty50dog]

Hi,

Contact the andria adams organisation google it they might help your case,

[BIGJIM1965]

Our company has given us until 12 noon wednesday to write in our appeal. I should add, that over the years, anyone who has appealed has lost. Managing director always sticks by personnel department and manager. If business picks up and they start recruiting again, if you've appealed, you dont get asked back. And finally, 2 years ago, an individual lost their appeal but dug their heels in and took the company to an industrial tribunal.....and won. It may be a long road but he who dares...

[Tawnyowl]

Did your employer consider whether there were any alternative jobs. If your employer has assessed you as part of a redundancy selection process you should be told your scores. Ask for a copy of your score and the scores of anyone else with whom you have been compared. If you think you have been incorrectly assessed or that someone else should have assessed you tell your employer why. Personnel have advised that individuals do have the right to appeal on the above. Several of us, do not agree with the marking system used on assessments and wish to appeal against this. We know of several employees who have the same skills or less than us but who also have bad timekeeping and attendance. Why are they still in the building? :Go for it BigJim-sounds ok to me-lets make it hard for them-the outcome you want really is no one loses their job-even the less than perfect ones.As you go down the path-to whatever the final outcome is we will carry on trying to give you advice about future tribunals etc.Maybe after you have put the appeal in you can update or before with any questions you may have.Maybe you can read this for possible future reference.Dont forget the proffesional option.

If you have been unfairly selected for redundancy - rather than making a claim to an employment tribunal – it may be possible to negotiate an enhanced payment.mmm

 

 

It is usually a condition of making an enhanced payment that the employee enters into a compromise agreement with the employer to prevent the employee making any further claims. An employer proposing redundancies needs to devise and operate a fair procedure of selecting those to be made redundant. Selection for redundancy.

Selection is usually based on a scoring system in which points are awarded under various criteria. The criteria are likely to include factors such as experience, skills, attendance, timekeeping and disciplinary record. Criteria should be objective so far as possible to reduce the risk of disagreement about scores. To avoid possible age discrimination length of service is often not considered.

 

Make sure you know why it is your job that is at risk of redundancy and tell your employer if you think there are alternatives to redundancy (such as r

Ask if your employer has considered whether there are any alternative jobs. If You Think You Have Been Unfairly Selected .

 

As a redundancy is a dismissal, you have the same right of appeal as if you had been dismissed for any other reason and the process for the appeal will be the same. Your employer should tell you how to appeal the decision.

Your letter of appeal should include all the points which you have made already that you think are still valid, plus any other points which you have thought of since.

The employer should then set a time for your appeal to be heard. You are entitled to take a colleague or trade union official with you to the appeal hearing to act either as a witness/note taker or as your representative.

Deciding Whether to Make an Employment Tribunal Claim for Unfair Selection.

 

You have the right to claim that you have been unfairly selected for redundancy if you have continuous service of at least one year. If the employer has used a fair procedure, Employment Tribunals will not normally interfere with their selection - especially if there are major job losses relative to the size of the employer.

Even if you are sure that you can show that you have been unfairly selected for redundancy any award made by the Employment Tribunal may be small. The standard redundancy payment is the same as the basic award which a tribunal would make .Good luck Big Jim.As ive said before i am no expert ,just trying to help, and dont forget the links and proffessional idea.Tawnyowl.

[BIGJIM1965]

Thanks tawnyowl for your encouraging thoughts. There are several points I can answer to:

 

Did your employer consider whether there were any alternative jobs.

My employer advsised me there was no alternative jobs available. However, since leaving the building, when there has been no work in other areas, I have been advised by remaining employees that they have been putting someone else in my work area. Unfortunately for me, whilst I have been told this, my colleagues have advised that they do not wish this to be mentioned in any appeal as they fear for any backlash from employer.

 

 

If your employer has assessed you as part of a redundancy selection process you should be told your scores. Ask for a copy of your score and the scores of anyone else with whom you have been compared.

Yes I was told my scores and given my assessment sheet to take away. I appealed against everything and when I went to my final meeting manager advised that he had went through my points raised and felt in his opinion that the points given were fair and could not be changed. I advised him that there was some colleagues who were still employed that must have less points than me as they did have as much skills as me. However, he advised this was not the case and totally denied this. He knows he is lying by the way. Finally I asked twice for a copy of my colleagues points assessments sheets so I could compare their scores with mine....management REFUSED. Personnel were taking notes at this meeting and I specifically asked this to be minuted ie there refusal to give me a copy of colleagues scores.

 

I should also point out that at the 3 meetings I attented, they were minuted by personnel. I have asked for a copy of these minutes of meetings and company has verbally refused to give me a copy of minutes of meetings. I am led to believe that I am entitled to a copy of these. Should I send them a letter in writing requesting this again to cover my back?

 

I should also state that I took in a colleague as a witness at meetings.

[shifty50dog]

Hi Jim,

Put in a data search on all data about you at the company make sure you are specific about what data you want and ask for the minutes of those meetings this will cost £10.00 pay by cheque made payable to your employers they must comply within 30 or 40 days im not sure exactly wich,

 

regards shifty,

[shifty50dog]

Get your colleague to give you a statement regarding what was said at those meetings and make him sign and date it if you can,