Cabot Court Claim - Help Needed

[Bernie259]

CABOT FINANCIAL (UK) LTD.

 

Hi, I desperately need your help and guidance in relation to a County Court Claim from Cabot UK Ltd in relation to 3 credit card debts I stopped paying 3 years ago, they are claiming a total of £19,399 which includes £400 in costs and a lot of added interest to the original debts.

 

I am severely disabled due to a medical blunder and my wife is my full time carer, we incurred massive unsecured debts due to a failed clinical negligence claim over many years, the claim was stuck out in 2004 because my solicitor failed to file an application to admit my medical evidence, sadly I could not affords to sue him.

 

I was left facing a costs order of around £75,000 to the NHS, which to date they have not enforced, and credit card and loan debts in the region of £80,000, we continued to struggle to pay these debts up to May 2006, total monthly payments were around £2000 paid from our £1,400 monthly disabled and means tested benefits for a family of four, the debts spiralled out of control and we were referred to a debt adviser at the CAB, he managed to get all creditors except Alliance & Leicester Personal loans, to accept a £1 monthly token payment due to our personal circumstance and the fact they felt it was irresponsible lending when all lenders knew I was disabled and we had no disposable income, it was wrong to count disability benefits.

 

Alliance & Leicester rushed a claim through without notice, rejected our monthly offer at the Northampton Court, and they were granted an interim charging order without a hearing. The CAB arranged an urgent referral under legal aid as our family home was at risk, we were appointed a solicitor and barrister. At the hearing my barrister argued the judge had to take our personal circumstances into account, that the other creditors had not been informed, that if the charging order was allowed it would upset existing arrangement and other creditors would follow on, the judge said he felt this was a clear case of irresponsible lending and urged a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, he advised we should have full public funding.

 

A very full and detailed complaint was submitted to the Financial Ombudsman which they initially accepted; they sat on this for some time causing further adjournments and costs, they then rejected the complaint claiming once court proceeding had been started they could not get involved, my barrister contacted them and said the judge had urged this complaint to them because it is for them to investigate and regulate the industry, again we had to re-submit a bulky complaint, which they accepted in writing, however, after sitting on the complaint again and causing more adjournments and costs they rejected it and said if the court feels it is irresponsible lending then they have the power to act accordingly, my solicitor advised we cannot force them to investigate the complaint, also that because of the delays the £10,000 legal aid (for a £13,000 debt !) had been used up and we would have to represent ourselves at the final charging hearing, I protested we were awarded legal aid for legal representation at the hearing and not for a complaint to the FO that was not investigated, he agreed to get us another £1000 for the final hearing, however, he only booked a five minute hearing with a different judge, who was not interested in addressing the previous judges comments on irresponsible lending, he said a decision to allow a final charging order would not upset existing arrangements as all creditors had been notified long ago and none had lodged an interest, the final order was granted. (Don’t you just love solicitors !!!)

 

The CAB Advisor said an order for sale would not happen in our case and to drop off paying the £1 token payments as you will never get past the 6 year rule. We continued to pay the £1 token payment to these who pressed us, some just faded away, they all went through several debt collecting agencies and in-house solicitors all making threats of legal action without further notice, we were advised to ignore them unless they were headed “Letter before Action”

 

In November 2008 we wrote to the creditors who were hounding us, asking them in view of our circumstances to write the debt off, we wrote to Monument, no reply, we wrote to Cabot UK in relation to a Citi Financial credit card, they replied requesting medical evidence, this was sent in December 2008, that’s the last we heard from them until we returned from a visiting family to find 2 letters dated 29th April from Morgan Solicitors acting for Cabot UK, in relation to two credit cards, one with Cahoot and Monument, I ignored these as they were not headed “Letter before Action”

 

We then received a claim from the Northampton County Court for a total of £19,399 which includes £400 in costs and a lot of added interest to the original debts to Monument, Citi and Cahoot. We have had no communication from Cahoot in three years, they did not reply to the offer of the token payment, I also understood they were considering classifying the Citi debt as unrecoverable; we certainly did not receive any letter from them threatening court action, and there was no reply to the request to write off the Monument debt.

 

I joined the Consumer Forums some time ago and have been reading the very useful threads and advice. I have written to Morgan Solicitors advising them of my disability, giving them the history of our financial history, the judge’s comments, and copies of letters to Cabot and re-sent the medical evidence. I have told them I do not recognise any debt to Cabot UK and will defend the claim in full; I requested CCS (£3) and made a Subject Access Request (£10), I have pleaded with them to withdraw the claim.

 

I have since seen your great templates for CCA & SAR and re-sent both by record delivery.

 

I would be very grateful for any advice of guidance anyone can give me as to the next stage; I have not acknowledged the claim yet dated 5th May 2009. I was waiting for a reply from Morgan’s or Cabot to see what they come up with and if they intend to pursue the claim.

 

Kind regards

Bernie

[UnitedFront]

If they have instigated a claim against you, then your request for information should be made under the CPR. One of the experts will be along shortly, and will no doubt help!!

 

UF

[Bernie259]

Thanks for your very prompt response, I had read that, however, I do not believe they have acted in accordance with CPR pre-action protocol and hoped it would put more pressure on them, letting them know whats ahead, it may buy me some time, dont know? Bernie

[harrassed senior]

Hi, I am not very experienced, but one thing I do know for sure is that you must notify the Court that you will be defending this case, as once they have gained a CCJ it is almost impossible to go down the CCA route.

 

This would still be the route to go as they will need to provide the correct documentation in Court if you defend. If you don't they will win by default.

 

Hopefully, someone will be along either later this evening, on in the morning shift and will give you expert guidance on placing a defence and they will be with you all the way.

 

I will look in tomorrow morning to make sure you have been 'picked up' by the experts:)

 

This is a trying time for you, but with the help you will get on here you will gradually begin to get some relief from the stress and things will work out for you, so keeping going there is a speck of light beginning to appear at the end of the tunnel.

[Bernie259]

Thank you very much, I am very grateful for your advice and support. I will send off the court papers informing them I intend to defend the whole claim. I was worried that my thread was not being seen because when I done a search on "Cabot" it found many threads except mine ? I have contaced the forum to ask why this is, awaiting a reply.

 

Regards

Bernie

[Bernie259]

Hi, I have now acknowledged the claim online and time is running for me to file a defence, I really do need some help here please if anyone can guide me

Thanks

Bernie

[babybear39]

I can only offer support and encouragement at this time but have flagged your thread for urgent help.

[Bernie259]

Thank you very much

Bernie

[42man]

Hi Bernie....very sorry to hear of your predicament...firstly may I ask what the Particulars Of The Claim say ? Did you say you had sent out a CPR Letter ? which one 31.14 or CPR18 ? Do you have any of the paperwork ? Have they responded to your CPR at all ?

 

In the meantime there are some useful threads here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/126111-cl-finance-ltd-recieved-4.html#post1350484

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/121774-lloyds-tsb-credit-card-5.html#post1461198

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/144007-help-amex-no-cca-3.html#post1549360

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/156156-help-mum-being-taken.html#post1665130

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/179597-no-agreement-use-civil.html#post1937068

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/157973-welcome-fianance-court-case-4.html#post1704890

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/167353-help-court-claim-howard-2.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/161469-1st-credit-animal-2.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/160703-urgent-help-needed-robinson.html#post1721582

[Bernie259]

Thanks for all that information.

 

Firstly the Particulars of Claim read

 

The Claimant is part of the Cabot Financial Group and has purchased the debts scheduled below (Citi Financial, Monument, Abbey National PLC, (which was for a Cahoot credit card)

 

Despite request for payment the defendant has failed to pay the sum of £18,989.85 , and the claimant claims the sum of £19,399.85 together with interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 , and costs.

 

*******************************************************

 

The only demands I received were seperate ones for Cahoot and Monument, these arrived while we were away from home shortly followed by the claim form, there was nothing for the Citi Financial debt which is also included in the claim, I understood they were considering writting this off the Citi debt due to my disability. There were no letters headed before action, and I understood Cabot were only debt collectors, not owners of the debt.

 

I wrote to their solicitors putting my case forward, I then sent a CCA and SAR using templates from this forum, recorded delivery. No reply to date, However it looks like I will have to make a CPR request for these documents, not sure how to do this or where to send it to, also will I need to make an application to the court for more time to file my defence.

 

Thanks

Bernie

[42man]

Those POC's are vague and the case should be struck out....

 

Did you send out a CPR request to them ?

[42man]

I.e one of these ? - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/185051-claim-form-received-today.html#post1992524 or this ? - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/148845-bryan-carter-received-summons.html#post1573418

[babybear39]

From my limited experience I would agree with 42man re: the case should be struck out as POCs are vague.

[42man]

Send this recorded to the opposing solicitors....

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

CPR 18 - REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

[42man]

When has the defence got to be in ?

[babybear39]

Just another thought, have you confirmed with crapbrot that they own the accounts ie. are absolute assignees? If not, they can;t bring action on their own they would have to have the OC as co claimant

[42man]

I have to go soon and won't be about for a couple of days or so....but if you need help press the red triangle in the bottom left hand corner....

[Bernie259]

Thats great, many thanks to you all.

 

I agree the POC's are vague, I have never received a demand from Cabot for anything like £19,399.85, they have never advised me they own these three debts, I was paying them as "collectors" a £1 token payment for the Monument and Citi, never had any contact from Cahoot credit card. I will send the CPR request to their solicitors by recorded delivery, in the meantime what do I do about meeting the filing of a defence deadline, do I have to have the courts permission for further time and how do I get this? From my clinical negligence claim I understand its all about applications and orders .

Bernie

[babybear39]

I don't have the info to hand but if you google it you should get what you're looking for.

[citizenB]

Right for a start they arent allowed to ask for the s69 interest.

 

Originally Posted by citizenB

They have messed up on the POC.. they arent allowed to charge s69 interest. I am just looking for one of the many posts that pt2537 has made in this respect.

 

 

 

 

The Claimant fails to plead that this claim concerns an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act, 1974. However, the Claimant claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act, 1984 which the Claimant should surely know they are not entitled to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order, 1991 (SI 1991 No. 1184 (L. 12)) in particular section 2(3)(a), which clearly prohibits such an award:

 

· The general rule

 

2(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment - (a) is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974;

 

[citizenB]

As a claim has been issue, I am moving this thread to legal issues, it may well attract more help and advice.

[supasnooper]

Hi there,

 

You have 33 days from the date of the claim ( 5th May 2009), so I calculate that your defence needs to be at the Court by 7th June.

 

Let's see what documentation comes back from your CPR request before a defence is compiled.

[I've got no money]

Ok - lets try and take it in stages

 

You have filed the AoS indicating that you are gonna defend all of the claim haven't you

Have you done the CPR letter 42man suggested -that should get hopefully get some more information

 

We've got a bit of time to draft a defence - I don't have any real time to draft a defence until after the 26th of May - I'll keep an eye on the thread and keep popping back with suggestions

 

Don't panic...

[I've got no money]

The other thing to say is that you will certainly qualify for legal aid on terms of your income.

 

I think that what we should do is basically set up a defence and that once we've done that you should see a Solicitor

 

Do you have copies of any Default Notices or agreements or Notices of Assignment or any other documents

 

If you have can you post them - make sure that you delete anything that identifies you BUT in terms of any Default Notices can you leave the dates on...

[Bernie259]

We are overwhelmed with all this sound advice and assistance you have kindly given us, thank you to all, we feel much more at ease now. Some interesting valid points have been raised, re; the dodgy POCs charging s69 interest, absolute assignees etc.

As we see it the Action plan is;

1) CPR letter to Cabot solicitors to try and obtain all the documentation.

2) File a defence before 7th June (not sure what to do if I don’t get the correct documentation before the deadline to file a defence, apart from a complete denial that I owe Cabot anything, as they cannot prove it?)

3) Seek legal advice (legal aid). That’s the part that worries us if you read my first post, I was stitched up by my solicitor during the last claim in 2006, he just used up the legal aid and was eager to close the file to get his money, I had full legal aid, a solicitor, the first judge on our side, and a good barrister that advised I had in excess of a 70% chance of having the interim charging order removed on many grounds, irresponsible lending being one the judge agreed with. (have to find a different solicitor)

We are at an advantage this time with all your help and lessons learnt from the previous claim, it was messed up at the first hurdle last time, a money advisor admitted the claim for £13,000 in full and offered about £10p/m, that was rejected outright and a default judgment was lodged against me, the next money advisor filed a variation of the order and offered a token payment of £1 p/m, that unsurprisingly was also rejected outright followed by an interim charging order, we then spent about a year using up around £10,000 of legal aid, only to give in to the claimant at the end with no one fighting our corner.