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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Validity of claims management companies? Moved from "Unenforceability Cases on hold until further notice"


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Actually TD, my emphasis was the Consumer Credit Act 2006, fully implemented; 1st October 2008;

Unfair Relationships.

 

It was only a matter of time before it was tested in Court.

 

Mark my words, many cases will follow...

 

Salans is a well know law firm.

 

Eversheds LLP also have an interesting article on the matter.

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Check out this link from post 444

 

*EDIT*

 

Damn thats not the right link every time I try to put the right link in it transmutes to the one above when I post it ???????????

the one you need to look at is in post 444 ignore the above

Edited by car2403
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Check out this link from post 444

 

EDITED

 

thanks TD , have read the link but in THIS case they seem to have done the biz

 

my advice would be that if a CMC was confident of success then it should eb more than willing to act on a CFA arrangement with a guarantee of refund.

 

i will happily hand over a case to a CMC on this basis but would wait until the creditor started the action so that i could stitch him up

Edited by car2403
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thanks TD , have read the link but in THIS case they seem to have done the biz

 

my advice would be that if a CMC was confident of success then it should eb more than willing to act on a CFA arrangement with a guarantee of refund.

 

i will happily hand over a case to a CMC on this basis but would wait until the creditor started the action so that i could stitch him up

 

Many offer a full refund if they can not take your case forward on a CFA but the point is that there are people on that forum complaining that they have submitted their case over a year ago and still don't know whether their case will be taken on a CFA basis and have not had a refund.

If the creditor started the action how do you know that you would actually be defended?

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Many offer a full refund if they can not take your case forward on a CFA but the point is that there are people on that forum complaining that they have submitted their case over a year ago and still don't know whether their case will be taken on a CFA basis and have not had a refund.

If the creditor started the action how do you know that you would actually be defended?

 

i would never start an action- only defend them- and i'm not daft enough to defend them (or let them get that far) if i don't feel that i have a good defence,

 

taking advice costs money up front usually and faced with legal representation some creditors would then not proceed but still badger me and i am further out of pocket

 

if i feel i need representation i'd rather wait until they are committed to proceedings THEN drop it on them so that if/when they discontinue or lose it will hurt them

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BTW I hope that all of us with dealings with MBNA will open our letters with

 

"Your case against Ms Thorious was interesting and i lost track, did you win?

 

lol Diddy...you are so wicked!! :D

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

MBNA Cards

 

CitiCard

M&S and More

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Very disappointed that the link I put on here to another forum dealing with peoples experience of using the CMC which has just dealt with the Liverpool case has been deleted.

I can only assume the reason is that the management of this forum feared legal consequences if the link was allowed to stand however I think its very sad that consumers reading this forum will be denied the opportunity to read about the experiences of other consumers who have paid many hundreds of pounds to have their claims dealt with and to hear how they have fared.

Anyone who would like the link can pm me for further info.

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Very disappointed that the link I put on here to another forum dealing with peoples experience of using the CMC which has just dealt with the Liverpool case has been deleted.

I can only assume the reason is that the management of this forum feared legal consequences if the link was allowed to stand however I think its very sad that consumers reading this forum will be denied the opportunity to read about the experiences of other consumers who have paid many hundreds of pounds to have their claims dealt with and to hear how they have fared.

Anyone who would like the link can pm me for further info.

 

TD, the links were removed as they are not allowed due to breaching forum rules - all links to CMC's, by their very nature, are commercial and breach the rules. We've been through this in this thread already, admittedly it's long and may have missed your attention.

 

This is something that I will ask to be reviewed, but as CAG is a self-help forum, that may not happen.

 

No legal opinion or consequences were considered in removing them - they broke forum rules, so were removed. Simple as that.

 

Oh, and to anyone reading the quoted post above, I'd highly suggest you do not PM members individually for help - if they give incorrect/inaccurate advice, it can't be corrected if it isn't on the public forums. Requests to receive such PM's from our members would normally require Admin approval, so we can protect our members interests and data. Any further requests from anyone to receive requests like that by PM may mean the PM function is removed for those making such requests without approval in advance. If you'd like approval, please PM me any other site team member, or report a post and we will tell you how you can go about that process.

 

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No doubt Cartel did a good job in this particular case and it is a good result for everyone trying to take these companies on. However, how many cases have Cartel taken on for very large upfront fees and how many have got to the position of yesterdays case?

 

I know of many people who have placed cases with companies including Cartel who, 12 months or more down the line, have no feedback whatsoever and can't get any and are no further forward despite paying out their hard earned money. I also know of CMCs who can offer the same service as Cartel et al but with no fees for the client. Same end result, same process, different proposition re fees and where clients can get all their agreements looked at instead of only being able to afford one or two.

 

In my honest opinion, a company charging a fee who have only had a miniscule number of the introduced cases even looked at, should be closley vetted by MOJ and if neccesary shutdown but what do I know?!!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Got this from another forum,

Ratio Money are a joke,1 case won so far they should start learning something here.

Ratio have introducers who make money by putting new business into Ratio and The Claims Warehouse have been doing this.

Ratio Money are thought to have taken on over 8,000 claims so far and my information is they have one success-8000 cases at 295 pounds a pop is 2,360,000 pounds 1crysad.gif.

Ratio Money have cases in their system which have been ongoing for over 15 months and have got nowhere at all,they never return your calls,never reply to correspondence or emails and are completely disorganised.

You can never speak to the same person twice as whenever you call the person you spoke to last has left or been sacked.

As for their solicitors most of them are experts in conveyancing and family work and have no idea about consumer finance issues.

There are many many cases where Ratio has passed a case to a solicitor and six months later the sol decides they can't deal with the case and they send it back to Ratio.

Ratio then send it to another solicitor and the process is repeated,I know one guy who is now on his fourth solicitor and is no further forward than when he started.

Take it from me Ratio are going down a nd whemn they do they will take a lot of their introducers with them and every client will be out of pocket

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What galls me is Ratio also claim to be the most ethical CMC, but so do Knightsbridge who claim to be the first and only CMC to offer no fees despite the CMC I am a part owner of having done this for 17 months! I challenged them yesterday to prove what they were peddling!!

 

No upfront or backend fees are the way to go with the cases being vetted first and a solicitor paying an acceptable amount for the case when taken on. Ratio and their ilk will be short lived hopefully

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TD, the links were removed as they are not allowed due to breaching forum rules - all links to CMC's, by their very nature, are commercial and breach the rules. We've been through this in this thread already, admittedly it's long and may have missed your attention.

 

This is something that I will ask to be reviewed, but as CAG is a self-help forum, that may not happen.

 

No legal opinion or consequences were considered in removing them - they broke forum rules, so were removed. Simple as that.

 

Oh, and to anyone reading the quoted post above, I'd highly suggest you do not PM members individually for help - if they give incorrect/inaccurate advice, it can't be corrected if it isn't on the public forums. Requests to receive such PM's from our members would normally require Admin approval, so we can protect our members interests and data. Any further requests from anyone to receive requests like that by PM may mean the PM function is removed for those making such requests without approval in advance. If you'd like approval, please PM me any other site team member, or report a post and we will tell you how you can go about that process.

 

Interesting thread.

 

Personally CAG is great and I have benefitted loads from it but when it comes to anything more than obtaining my agreements & legal action I have passed or attempted to pass this on to those more qualified than me.

 

I did attempt to use a CMC but only to get access to a specific solicitor they used. 7 months later and got no further and resulted in them losing 3 of my original credit agreements. This has resulted in a complaint letter agaisnt the CMC copied in to Trading standards and will report to the MOJ and take legal action for my costs if I do not receive a satisfactory outcome.

 

My attempt at pre-action disclosure (CPR 31.16) with one card company has also been a headache with months and months of wasted time and has resulted in a 4 page complain letter agasint the courts administration procedures which inlcluded maladministration, lost files blah blah blah.

 

I have also found a new solicitor who actually have been very "professional". They charged a £200 fee, and reviewed and reported back to me on 1 agreement within 3 weeks (unfort enforecable) and I have now given them 2 others to work on.

 

So have tried myself, tried a CMC and now trying a lawyer directly.

 

I do agree there is no substitute for doing this yourself in terms of the drive and commitment.

However for me personally i only have the time to take it so far and then its over to the professionals...

 

The problem ...there are very few professionals in this industry as its a new industry and an industry that will come and go i think within 5-7 years. The MD of of the CMC joked when i called to ask them to try and find my original agreements "oh i put them in the bin and set fire to them" apparantly his sense of humour.....a disgrace

 

There are lot of chancers out there who set these CMCs up with poor employees and poor systems that just cant cope with the deluge of cases ..but are happy with the huge ammount of upfront fees but i guess they take the view they will sort the **** out a later date..i suspect may of these will be ltd co's that will conveninetly go under and cease trading...

 

Anyone wanna start up a professional CMC with me ???!!

 

Fingers

The Story So Far...

 

Barclaycard - Fingers Vs Barclaycard

Egg - Egg Credit Card CCA Agreement - help

Halifax - Halifax Credit card CCA

IF - CCA received

Lloyds - Lloyds CCA

MBNA-CCA received, challening

Virgin - Virgin Card CCA May 2006 - Help Required

 

OH Barccard - 2 s78 letters, on 2nd cpr

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I hope you people aren't holding your breath waiting for Ratio to go under. '1 case won'?? You sure? Try again.

 

 

It would help if you would identify your interest Are you an employee of Ratio or client either way you will be welcome provided if an employee you substantiate some of your claims An awful lot of people (& not just here) think they are going down if that's not the case how do you know??

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in his defence- how many other caggers have to "identify themselves"?, as i recall. some very good legal brains have been "driven away" from this forum by people asking or demanding to know their backgrounds

 

 

people are obliged to disclose only what they WANT to disclose about themselves IMO and their opinions should not be any the less relevant if they choose not to do so

 

who cares if he does work for ratio

 

he has challenged someones assertion that they have only won 1 case

(at least that seems to be the gist of his post)

 

let the person who made the allegation of only 1 case won respond

 

(before anyone jumps on my back- i have never heard of, dealt with or had any brief for "ratio" which i gather must be a CMC!!)

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in his defence- how many other caggers have to "identify themselves"?, as i recall. some very good legal brains have been "driven away" from this forum by people asking or demanding to know their backgrounds

 

 

people are obliged to disclose only what they WANT to disclose about themselves IMO and their opinions should not be any the less relevant if they choose not to do so

 

who cares if he does work for ratio

 

he has challenged someones assertion that they have only won 1 case

(at least that seems to be the gist of his post)

 

let the person who made the allegation of only 1 case won respond

 

(before anyone jumps on my back- i have never heard of, dealt with or had any brief for "ratio" which i gather must be a CMC!!)

 

 

Your wrong many of us have at some time revealed our interest & what's wrong with that particularly if your posts relate to one company We are interested in what employees have to say but by knowing they are connected to the firm we can make our judgement of their advices accordingly

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I am a Ratio customer and there have been problems as some solicitors are slower than others. However, one thing about being with a CMC is that it makes it more difficult for OCs and DCAS to as assert that they have perfect agreements.

 

For instance, let them try issuing a Statutory Demand as you can go to straight to Ratio if you are a customer whose "agreement" has been checked out by Emmetts. Their charges applying for set aside will hit the claimant in the pocket in a big way. Far higher than a LIP could charge.

 

This may not be for everyone, but I do like sending off some details of the results of Emmetts reports to the OCs and DCAs for them to ponder.

 

This is a long process so I cannot say at this point that this is the answer as that would not be correct but Tricky Dickie has suggested this procedure on earlier posts so there are others doing this.

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