Unenforceability Cases on hold until further notice

[diddydicky]

As a point of discussion and also pure ignorance on my part..

 

Could somebody please clarify...

 

With regards to enforceable documents... Very often when taking out a loan etc you may sign two copies of the document... one for creditor and one for the consumer.

 

Does the document have to be identical?

 

I.e could the creditors copy be the 'enforceable agreement with prescribed terms and sigs. etc all in one doc and the consumers copy be sigs etc and a seperate copy of terms and conditions?

 

Thanks spam.

 

both parties to the agreement should have a copy with both signatures on

 

either one is enfirceable

 

do they have to be identical - of course they should be exactly identical

[diddydicky]

Off thread again.

Just going to post my letter to Kevin Webster to see if he fancies hiring me a posh barrister as well!

 

god if i had to put up with that screetching sally and slut of a daughter id be off doing summat else(TIC)

[Spamalot]

Thank you.. there is a CCA issue with regards to a Halifax CC where a cagger has his/her original doc without prescribed terms and they have supplied a copy as a result of a CA request WITH prescribed terms on back- suspect copy and pasting but wanted to clarify if it was usual for all copies sent out to the consumers on opening new accounts to be identical to the ones kept by creditor.

 

Spam.

[diddydicky]

Thank you.. there is a CCA issue with regards to a Halifax CC where a cagger has his/her original doc without prescribed terms and they have supplied a copy as a result of a CA request WITH prescribed terms on back- suspect copy and pasting but wanted to clarify if it was usual for all copies sent out to the consumers on opening new accounts to be identical to the ones kept by creditor.

 

Spam.

 

yes now i understand your qestion

 

that's because what he signed was a =n APPLICATION form and would not have contained the PT's

 

they have simply copied some PT's on the back

 

if i were him i would keep totally quiet about having a copy of the orignal

 

that's a bomb that should only be dropped in a courtroom!

[Spamalot]

yes now i understand your qestion

 

that's because what he signed was a =n APPLICATION form and would not have contained the PT's

 

they have simply copied some PT's on the back

 

if i were him i would keep totally quiet about having a copy of the orignal

 

that's a bomb that should only be dropped in a courtroom!

 

 

Yes mum is the word in this case... just wanted to cover all bases ;-)

 

Didn't want MR halifax saying oh thats just the customers copy...we have the enforceable one!

 

Thanks again.

 

Spam. .

[Stubie]

Yes mum is the word in this case... just wanted to cover all bases ;-)

 

Didn't want MR halifax saying oh thats just the customers copy...we have the enforceable one!

 

Thanks again.

 

Spam. .

 

Be careful about producing things in the courtroom.

 

There are many examples of courts barring such documents if standard disclosure has not been observed.

[diddydicky]

Be careful about producing things in the courtroom.

 

There are many examples of courts barring such documents if standard disclosure has not been observed.

 

yes should perhaps have been more precise- they have to be within the (last minute) disclosures

[Spamalot]

yes should perhaps have been more precise- they have to be within the (last minute) disclosures

 

I will make sure that the cagger in question is aware of this ;-)

 

Just wish it was me... still waiting for mine.

 

Thanks Spam.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Spamalot
I missed an 'o' out.. shoddy spelling Spam

[Hopster]

I have just had a stinker from Wescot Credit Services acting for Halifax. All Red and Black writing. They are not the first DCA to have been chasing up this alleged debt.

[diddydicky]

I have just had a stinker from Wescot Credit Services acting for Halifax. All Red and Black writing. They are not the first DCA to have been chasing up this alleged debt.

 

as a general rule if its all red and black - its bullsh*t

[SkemDosser]

I have just had a stinker from Wescot Credit Services acting for Halifax. All Red and Black writing. They are not the first DCA to have been chasing up this alleged debt.

I'm onto my fourth DCA with one account in so many months. If they were going to take it any further, they would have by now. Ignore it.

[Smarterchick]

I have just had a stinker from Wescot Credit Services acting for Halifax. All Red and Black writing. They are not the first DCA to have been chasing up this alleged debt.

 

I just write these dossers and tell them "I don't do dca's" I'll only correspond with the original creditors. Once you get rid of the monotonous phone calls, they vanish.

[Stubie]

I will make sure that the cagger in questin is aware of this ;-)

 

Just wish it was me... still waiting for mine.

 

Thanks Spam.

 

Me too,

 

I'm just getting the same silly letters as everyone else on here.

 

If they want to entertain us then they should get rid of the legal dept and hire a full creative dept instead. Lets face it, they should be able to get as close to the intent of the legislation as the legal eagles seem to

 

I have just had a stinker from Wescot Credit Services acting for Halifax. All Red and Black writing. They are not the first DCA to have been chasing up this alleged debt.

 

You must be further on than me.

 

The letter I get are really polite...we want to be your friend, we want to try to help.

 

I guess they are so fed up with other Caggers shredding their efforts they just want to find someone to chat to who won't try to rubbish everything they say and do.

 

Begs the question, why are you writing to me, that's exactly what I do too. Silly people .

 

Going back "on topic" as it were.

 

Has anyone got any info on the commercial court tast cases, when they will be heard etc?

 

Ta

[Stubie]

I just write these dossers and tell them "I don't do dca's" I'll only correspond with the original creditors. Once you get rid of the monotonous phone calls, they vanish.

 

I don't want to get rid of the phone calls, they are the armchair sport of choice in our household, especially when there's bugger all on the telly (most of the time)

[Spamalot]

I don't want to get rid of the phone calls, they are the armchair sport of choice in our household, especially when there's bugger all on the telly (most of the time)

 

:lol:

[citizenB]

I have just had a stinker from Wescot Credit Services acting for Halifax. All Red and Black writing. They are not the first DCA to have been chasing up this alleged debt.

 

Hopster, if there is no CCA or an illegible document then you should send a letter of complaint to the OFT as in the following link.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/50-complaint-in-respect-of-dca-threat-re-expired-debt/101-complaint-in-respect-of-invalid-cca-agreement

 

The OFT are unable to investigate individual complaints and will write and tell you so, however the information contained in the letter will reassure you that until and unless the OC/DCA can supply you with a document that contains all of the prescribed terms, is legible and bears your signature they will be unable to enforce the account.

 

They will also ask you to sign a permission slip in order for them to investigate once they have sufficient complaints.

 

I would suggest also sending a copy of the OFT letter to Westcot (or which ever DCA is involved) with a short covering letter. Thus:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Ref:

 

I was surprised to receive your letter/notice as this account is in Dispute and has been since (whenever).

 

Your intimidating notice leaves me with no alternative but to report your company to the OFT, a copy of that letter is enclosed for your attention.

 

I trust you will now return this account to your client.

 

Yours faithfully...

[citizenB]

It would appear that some new claims for unenforceable issues have been stayed again. Thread linked below:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/216538-claim-stayed-due-unenforceable.html#post2385776

 

If anyone has any current information in this regard, can they please share.

 

This is the press release that put this issue to bed earlier in the year.

 

Thousands of Unenforceable Credit Agreement cases can now be heard

 

Thanks

[Stubie]

As I understand it, the only cases referred to the commercial court related to removal of adverse credit references where an agreement was ruled unenforcible.

 

The arguement centres on whether applying defaults where the agreement is unenforcible constitutes enforcement.

 

There are no other cases that I know of. HHJ Halbart stated that relevant case law existed for the majority of unenforcibility cases to proceed.

 

The commercial court cases are due to be heard in October, as far as I recollect.

[letitbeme]

Does any one know when the test cases are up for a hearing?

[pt2537]

30th September 09 before Mr Justice Smith according to the barrister who is doing the case

[letitbeme]

Last January I received a telephone call from my bank asking me if I wanted to upgrade my credit card (Opened in Aug 1997) to a more flexible account. (Me thinks my old cca is defective) Just sign this new cca. (“I’ll think about it ”)

I have just spoken to a friend about my case being stayed, happened to mention the above statement to him, well low and behold he had a similar call a few months back ( Me thinks the banking industry is trying to of load there defective CCA’s)

[Ruprecht]

I am sorry to double post but I think this issue is the number 1 issue to ever come up in this forum, so I will. I look forward to any comments.

 

I am not sure what is going on in the Manchester case.

 

I was under the impression the Judge in Chester that has sent some test cases to London did not even get involved in the enforceability issue as none of the bank's barristers contested that they were not enforceable and the issue was only if they can record a default on a credit file if it was not enforceable and APR calculations.

 

Are they trying to say if there is no agreement at all that nobody knows if they had the prescribed conditions/signature etc? Surely this is madness to try and argue something about a contract which nobody has a true copy of?

 

Maybe it would be fun to get a transcript of the Chester hearing, if there were 50+ cases being heard at it I am sure the tape recorder would have been running. It would nice to see in transcript the banker's barristers agreeing no agreement = unenforceable (agreements before April 2007 of course).

 

Anyone involved in the Chester case fancy pm-ing me a claim number so I can try get it?

[Hopster]

any more details of his case PLEASE ?

[Docman]

Are the cases due to be heard in Manchester in October the same as the cases referred by Chester County Court to the Commercial Court in London on 30 September?

I find it strange that two courts in the same circuit have apparently put together different sample numbers of test cases on broadly the same topic.

[tinkerbell20]

Are the cases due to be heard in Manchester in October the same as the cases referred by Chester County Court to the Commercial Court in London on 30 September?

I find it strange that two courts in the same circuit have apparently put together different sample numbers of test cases on broadly the same topic.

 

 

No they are different