"Parking Charge" £70 Euro Car Parks?

[AlanPartridgeAhaaa]

I'm just about to email Controlaccount. Are you saying I should be emailing EC instead and just send an email to CA telling them it's in dispute?

[Barnsley Boy]

I'm just about to email Controlaccount. Are you saying I should be emailing EC instead and just send an email to CA telling them it's in dispute?

.

 

Yes, Under OFT guidelines Debt Collection Agencies are not allowed to chase for payments where debt is disputed. They are supposed to refer back to the issuing agency - in this case EC.

 

Suggest emailing CA denying the debt in its entirity [simple as that] and insist that it be referred back to EC in accordance with OFT guidelines.

[Barnsley Boy]

Believe me, I do NOT want to be taken to court. What I do want is to know if anyone has been.

 

I;ve spent a lot of time on these forums, more than I should. From thousands of postings I've come across evidence of four court cases.

Europarks is NOT one of the companies involved. More chance of you winning the lottery this weekend than EC taking you to court.

[AlanPartridgeAhaaa]

cheers.

i've just emailed ECP. Although their parking charge contact did not feature an email option, so I've just emailed the general one and asked for a contact via email.

I then emailed CA and told them I am in the process of disputing the charge.

[mania_800]

I apologise if this has already been brought up, I don't have enough time to read all of the posts.

 

Contract law as quite a few people have brought up shows that legally the car parks are not able to force you to pay. If it was b eing tried in a criminal court this would be the case, it would be thrown out..simple.

 

It will be in a civil court and yes the law on contracts still applys and any letter sent to the registerd keeper(RK) technically doesn't need to be paid, unfortuently you will be told as the (RK) you should know where your car bike etc is at all times. As they can't state who was driving they have come to you as the (RK) and because you "knew" where you car is, it will almost certainly fall on your head to pay these charges.. Ludicrous, yes....but until people stand up to it we will be made to lie down over and over again.

 

*Note* if anyone does take it as far as court and wins please tell me I would be very intrested to know exactly what happend.

 

~I hope someone finds this usefull and i apologise for my spelling but its late blah blah blah .

[MikeBigg]

unfortuently you will be told as the (RK) you should know where your car bike etc is at all times.

 

Nonsense.

[pin1onu]

 

It will be in a civil court and yes the law on contracts still applys and any letter sent to the registerd keeper(RK) technically doesn't need to be paid, unfortuently you will be told as the (RK) you should know where your car bike etc is at all times. As they can't state who was driving they have come to you as the (RK) and because you "knew" where you car is, it will almost certainly fall on your head to pay these charges.. Ludicrous, yes....but until people stand up to it we will be made to lie down over and over again.

This is uttter rubbish. Any alleged contract is made with the driver not the registered keeper and a third party cannot be made party to a contract without their knowledge or consent. If the RK was liable what would happen in the case of lease firms and hire companies. I am the RK of a vehicle that my wife drives. She is responsible for the insurance etc. I cannot say where she has been unless she elects to tell me. As the RK I am legally obliged to pay any fines and pass on the name of the driver to bodies authorised under the various Road Traffic and Transport acts (i.e. Police and Councils). I am NOT obliged to reveal the identity of the driver a PPC as there is no legislation in place to make me do so.

 

Mania, I suggest you have a read of the sticky at the top of this forum entitled Private Parking Companies/Charges Everything you need to know.

This excellent document explains the arguements in simple terms. Your post is ill-informed at best and misleading at worst.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

This is uttter rubbish. Any alleged contract is made with the driver not the registered keeper and a third party cannot be made party to a contract without their knowledge or consent. If the RK was liable what would happen in the case of lease firms and hire companies. I am the RK of a vehicle that my wife drives. She is responsible for the insurance etc. I cannot say where she has been unless she elects to tell me. As the RK I am legally obliged to pay any fines and pass on the name of the driver to bodies authorised under the various Road Traffic and Transport acts (i.e. Police and Councils). I am NOT obliged to reveal the identity of the driver a PPC as there is no legislation in place to make me do so.

 

Mania, I suggest you have a read of the sticky at the top of this forum entitled Private Parking Companies/Charges Everything you need to know.

This excellent document explains the arguements in simple terms. Your post is ill-informed at best and misleading at worst.

 

Even this is not the case for a PCN under the 1991 RTA.

Here it is the owner not the RK who is liable. OK there is a rebuttable presumption that the RK is the owner but it need not be the case.

[pin1onu]

Even this is not the case for a PCN under the 1991 RTA.

Here it is the owner not the RK who is liable. OK there is a rebuttable presumption that the RK is the owner but it need not be the case.

 

Thanks for the clarification Bernie.

[mania_800]

Nonsense.

Really? Ever been pulled over by the police driving something your not the RK of? If you you where undoubtedly asked does the RK know you have it...if you say no you will be taken for twocing, if yes then it is assumed that the RK knows where the car is. (

 

As for the rest of my post im just passing on what I was told would happen if I pushed it further. I'm not an expert in the issue and don't claim to be but I was told in a civil court that it will be assumed that the RK knew that my car was in their car park for the duration of the overstay and they are therefore liable if they don't wish to pass on whom the driver was. In the same way that not passing on who was driving to the police if you have an alligation against you can clock up points+or fine for the RK as its assumed that you where the driver or commited something worse (im not saying you need to pass the name to the car park's just using it as an example of the way the "presumptions" are made).

 

^^That advice came from a legal advice service I got along with my car insurance, i've seen other posts where people slate those who are "sticking up" for the PCN's by car parks im not sticking up just putting forward what happend in my own individual case.

 

Note - the only reason I even thought about challenging it in the first place was through information gained here. - and yes I rolled over and paid, was only 15 pounds if in 14 days, going up to 100 after that - haven't shopped at Sainsburys since. .

 

@Pin1onu (sorry i dont know how to quote 2 things) I'm not saying that they have a legal leg to stand on but I was told that the court will make assumptions in the car park's favour - as their knoledge and consent was given at the time they let the 3rd party drive their car. I have no idea about in the case of a lease firm*edit*Thinking about it last time i leased a car i had to sign a form that basically said i take full responsibilities for all fines-besides why would a lease firm fail to pass on who was driving? That document was written by an adviser in criminal law as i said it would get thrown out of court if it was state vs you but its civil therefore plaintiff v defendant hence my post.

 

I apologise if i mislead anyone, and pin thanks for giving a decent post giving reasons please do so again but do you belive i'm completly wrong?..un like others^^.

[MikeBigg]

Really? Ever been pulled over by the police driving something your not the RK of?

 

Yes - several times over the years, but always with the consent of the owner - but that really isn't the issue. This is about PPCs, not police.

 

I apologise if i mislead anyone, and pin thanks for giving a decent post giving reasons please do so again but do you belive i'm completly wrong?..un like others^^.

 

LOL - you should've seen what I originally typed - I was ****ed off for no particular reason and nothing to do with your post. The edit I did chopped out additional content and left a decent word in there. I apologise for the brevity.

 

Regards,

 

Mike

[mania_800]

mm the police thing was just making the point that it is assumed that you know where your car is as the rk...looking back on what i just said "?..un like others^^. " looks rather provocotive, so i apologise for that.

[pin1onu]

As for the rest of my post im just passing on what I was told would happen if I pushed it further. I'm not an expert in the issue and don't claim to be but I was told in a civil court that it will be assumed that the RK knew that my car was in their car park for the duration of the overstay and they are therefore liable if they don't wish to pass on whom the driver was.

 

That's not right. As it's a civil matter, the PPC must provide proof of their case. First they have to prove that a contract existed and both parties agreed to it, then they have to prove that the car was parked there and lastly they have specify the amount of damages caused. They can't add penalty charges to a contract that's for a court to do.

 

The RK if they were not the driver could not enter into the contract because they weren't there and contract law specifically forbids that a third party can be made party to a contract without their knowledge or consent. Even if they are the driver it is up to the PPC to prove that a contract was entered into. You do not have to incriminate yourself.

 

In the same way that not passing on who was driving to the police if you have an alligation against you can clock up points+or fine for the RK as its assumed that you where the driver or commited something worse (im not saying you need to pass the name to the car park's just using it as an example of the way the "presumptions" are made).

Passing on data to the Police is a covered under statute law. Passing on data to a PPC is not covered by statute and is in fact a breach of the Data Protection act unless you have given specific authorisation. Most rental and lease agreements I have seen state that they will do the former but not the latter.

 

^^That advice came from a legal advice service I got along with my car insurance, i've seen other posts where people slate those who are "sticking up" for the PCN's by car parks im not sticking up just putting forward what happend in my own individual case.

I think you have been poorly advised. Have a read of the guide in the stickies and the template letters. You might have a case against the PPC but I think you almost certainly have a case against the lease company for breaching the data protection act and could claim compensation for the breach. Have a look at the information commissioners website for further information.

 

Hope you find this useful.

[anonyMOUS123]

Hi everyone, just to let you know I received one of these tickets from Euro CarParks, on a Tesco/TX Maxx car park, one lunchtime approx. 8 months ago.

 

Luckily, back then my car was registered to my old address, so safely enough I ignored the initial fine, and the subsequent letters (3 in total) they sent me (the letters looked suspicious, so I guessed who they were from, without opening) - then I returned all 3 unopened letters saying no longer at this address, and that’s the last I heard from them ;D

 

I wouldn’t mind, but I find it totally unbelievable the DVLA are 'allowed' to sell your personal details. It is absolutely cRaZy!!!

 

And particularly to these such companies, who use bullying tactics to force people to handover huge amounts of money....well I'm glad to say their attempt with me failed miserably and my pasta did not end up costing me and extra £70!

 

Stick to your guns people and DON’T PAY their ridiculous, police impersonating, so called 'fines'!

 

The retailers should be ashamed of themselves for having these tyrants operating in their car parks!!!

[dave/ber]

Hi People its me again, I still have not heard from ECP or DCA,Thats my update I'm still reading to see how you AR all fairing.

D/B

[sk8agrrl]

This is a question for the Scottish people on here... does the contract law thing still stand in scotland as I know there are differences in contract law up here? I'm assuming the RK as opposed to driver argument would work the same up here if law supported it.

 

Also if noone else is named on your insurance can you really argue that you allowed someone else to drive the car?

 

I was given a ticket at an NCP carpark this evening. They never used to charge at night so I thought I was safe (6 minutes between sighting and issuing the fixed penalty notice). The PCN doesnt state anything that would suggest their request for payment is breaking the law (no reference to fine etc)

 

Obviously I dont want to end up going to court which i appreciate most posts say theyve never heard of this but its also mainly discussing english cases with different laws and mainly EuroCarParks.

 

Anyone with NCP experience?

[az86011]

Dear all,

Being a new user to the site, I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU for putting my mind at rest about these parking bullies! My husband got a Parking Charge Reminer from ParkingEye and being a born worrier, I was getting very stressed about it as he was refusing to pay on principle . Since reading through this thread, I now feel well-armed to respond to ParkingEye advising them that the contract is with the driver and not the RK. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this will be sufficient - wish me luck!

By the way, I haven't seen ParkingEye mentioned much on this thread - am I right in assuming that I deal with them in the same way as the others??

 

I'd be grateful for any comments you could provide!

[pin1onu]

Dear all,

Being a new user to the site, I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU for putting my mind at rest about these parking bullies! My husband got a Parking Charge Reminer from ParkingEye and being a born worrier, I was getting very stressed about it as he was refusing to pay on principle . Since reading through this thread, I now feel well-armed to respond to ParkingEye advising them that the contract is with the driver and not the RK. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this will be sufficient - wish me luck!

By the way, I haven't seen ParkingEye mentioned much on this thread - am I right in assuming that I deal with them in the same way as the others??

 

I'd be grateful for any comments you could provide!

They are a private parking company like any of the others so way the methods for dealing with them are exactly the same. As in all these civil cases the onus of proof rests with the plaintiff (i.e. the PPC) and not the defendant. You as the RK don't have to incriminate yourself.

[Barnsley Boy]

This is a question for the Scottish people on here... does the contract law thing still stand in scotland as I know there are differences in contract law up here? I'm assuming the RK as opposed to driver argument would work the same up here if law supported it.

 

Also if noone else is named on your insurance can you really argue that you allowed someone else to drive the car?

 

I was given a ticket at an NCP carpark this evening. They never used to charge at night so I thought I was safe (6 minutes between sighting and issuing the fixed penalty notice). The PCN doesnt state anything that would suggest their request for payment is breaking the law (no reference to fine etc)

 

Obviously I dont want to end up going to court which i appreciate most posts say theyve never heard of this but its also mainly discussing english cases with different laws and mainly EuroCarParks.

 

Anyone with NCP experience?

 

It has been explained to me that as regards the basics, there are no particular differences between English and Scottish Law as regards PPCs. If anything, the environment in Scotland is less favourable for PPCs - no clampers for instance.

 

The Registered Keeper defence still works. The parties to a contract have to be certain. The parties have to be aware there is a contract (you did not see the signs).

 

I'd still use Bernies template letters ["sticky" at the top of the forum) to see NCP off.

[az86011]

They are a private parking company like any of the others so way the methods for dealing with them are exactly the same. As in all these civil cases the onus of proof rests with the plaintiff (i.e. the PPC) and not the defendant. You as the RK don't have to incriminate yourself.

 

Thanks Pin1onu - appreciate the clarification.

I have drafted the below letter using a combination of comments from this site and would be grateful for any comments on its content - is it satisfactory? Do I need to put the bit in about using "offence"?

 

 

"I refer to your letter dated 21 January 2008.

 

Any alleged contract that exists will be with the driver of the vehicle on the day. Please take the matter up with them.

 

I would also like to point out that on the document I have been sent, you use the word ‘offence’, which in itself is a criminal offence according to the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

Please do not contact me again unless it is to advise me that you will not be contacting me, as the registered keeper, again and that the matter is now closed. "

 

Thanks again for your help.

[bobert]

I have the same problem with euro car parks!!!!!

 

2 questions...

 

1 They have those new fangled parking sensors and have doubled up the signs, will these new sensors help as proof?

 

Which leads to question 2! They have not put the initial time i parked, only the time my ticket was issued.

 

2 Will the fact that they have not recorded, "on my copy of the ticket", the time i arrived, negate the ticket automatically?

[bobert]

Sorry, i forgot to add, that i think you are all stars for helping us advoid these scamers!!!!!!

[pin1onu]

Do I need to put the bit in about using "offence"?

The Letter looks fine to me. I'd keep the bit in about the offence. It'll show them they are not dealing with a wally but someone who is well informed.

[bobert]

Also, I have to add, that sainsbury's who are next to car park have a camera at the entrance/exit. It states on the sign that euro work in partnership with sainsburys, so can they request camera footage from sainsburys?

 

best regards

 

By the way, i was 5 minutes late on a 2 hour limit!!

[Barnsley Boy]

Bobert,

 

Do not worry, it sounds a little far fetched that Sainsbury would hand over CCTV footage to Euro just to help them with parking invoices. There are all sorts of Data Protection issues, not to mention the manpower involved.

 

Just wait for the letters to come through your door, use bernie's templates, you will be fine.