Capital Bank Direct Loan from 1997

[lisaclaim]

Hi

 

Been reading through the help on this website as I heard old loans can be written off. Sorry but there is so much information I find it hard to put it together and find which way we should go. We have 2 old loans and 1 old credit card all from around 1997 !! We had serious problems then and to be honest we just kept paying the minimum and they seem to have been happy. From what I have heard I am no surprised they were happy as we carried on paying lol

 

anyway... I am going to post 3 different threads to deal with the 3 problems!

 

This one is for a joint loan with a balance still of £5,481.20

To be honest I am confused with this one.It got transferred to Wescot Credit years ago and we had no communication with Capital Bank Direct at all. It went to Legal & Trade Collections before Wescot and also a solicitors but we adamantly paid the minimum and have been paying £40 a month to Wescot for a long time but have not been paying much this year due to finance problems.

 

A couple of weeks ago we received a letter with 'Your Annual Personal Loan Statement Agreement No: xxxxxxxxxxx for the period 01/10/2008 to 23/02/2009. It shows a statement opening balance as at 1/10/2008 and then 3 payments october, november and december 2008 with a statement closing balance.

 

Confusing as we have never received a statement so why now and also it is supposed to be an annual one but starts in october?

 

Anybody any ideas and if we can get this sorted or wiped out then what steps do we need to take

 

Surprisingly I have been a monthly subscriber to Experian for over 3 years and Capital Bank are definitely not on the list and have not been since I joined Experian.

 

Could someone please help in pointing my to the step by step guide to help clear this debt.

 

Thanks

------------------------------

p.s. about 3 years ago we claimed back over £4,000 from Halifax on bank charges! it was great and we could not have done it without Consumer Forums so a big thank you again xxxx didn't think we would need again but since my back injury and operations since Dec 2006 things are going down the wrong path again xx but we have faith and thank everyone for their help and support.

[lickthewallfatboy]

sounds like it could be a phishing exercise by a DCA

 

send them a CCA request to prove the debt exists,and if it does,is it

 

a.enforceable

 

b.statute barred

[lisaclaim]

thanks, do you have a link to get the CCA pls?

[lickthewallfatboy]

Request for information under section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974





Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number: XXXXXXXXXX

 

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a true copy of this particular credit agreement.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Section 77), I am entitled to receive a true and legible copy of my credit agreement (containing all the required prescribed terms) on request.


I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the statutory fee payable under section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

This sum is not to be assigned or used for any other purpose.

 

I also understand a true copy of my credit agreement must under such statute be supplied within 12 working days.

 

Should you fail to provide the agreement then under the Consumer Credit Act you will be unable to enforce any such agreement, or be entitled to any further payments whilst you continue to fail to comply with this request.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor.

 

In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is also drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

and DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING!!

[Pinky69]

Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner

 

Scroll down to Letter "N". Print, don't sign, your name - send the £1 by postal order, and send the letter by recorded delivery.

[lisaclaim]

Gr8 thanks, have printed out the letters and will post by the end of the week with the postal order. Will keep this thread updated

[lisaclaim]

Hi everyone! x

 

Sent the request on the 2nd May and have still not heard anything. It was sent recorded delivery. Any ideas on a follow up that I may need to do thanks

x

[Pinky69]

Account In Dispute

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On (Date) I made a formal request for a true copy of the executed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on (Date).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter, which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours

 

You can now stop paying them.

[lisaclaim]

Great thanks. I have done and will post recorded tomorrow. Will keep everyone updated.

[lisaclaim]

Hi

 

I received a reply from Capital Bank today, dated 20th May

 

Basically states, thank you for your statutory request for information in respect of the above Loan Agreement. Please find enclosed a signed copy of the executed Agreement.

 

Thats it and then a 2 page agreement which can be viewed here

 

Page 1

http://i39.tinypic.com/jayh3p.jpg

 

Page 2

http://i42.tinypic.com/20ubd04.jpg

 

It is a scruffy copy so if you cannot read the above then let me know if there is something we should look for. Me and my husband did sign them in 1997 !! is there anything we can do - this debt is not registered on credit expert!

 

Thank you

[Pinky69]

It has a loan amount, rate of interest, repayment schedule (the prescribed terms) and your signature in the same section. In my view this would be enforceable.

[lisaclaim]

Hiya

 

so does that mean that I have no chance of wiping it out. As it has been since 1997 I thought the terms and conditions on loans had changed and there was a clause that could get me out of this. Can anyone please confirm if I can contest this or if not the reasoning why.

 

Many thanks

[Pinky69]

It would have been Statute Barred if you hadn't paid anything or acknowleged the loan for 6 years. Because you have paid on a regular basis, the 6 years begins when you made the last payment. There is nothing in new legislation that wipes out debt. Your loan would have been unenforceable if it hadn't had the prescribed terms or the agreement was missing. That doesn't mean the debt dispappears - it just mean they cannot enforce it in court. If you have been reading all the ads about getting loans wiped off, forget it. They are relying on no agreement or the agreement being unenforceable.

[lisaclaim]

Oh well! I havent paid anything for the last 4 months and this debt doesn't even show on experian against me or my husband. I have been with experian for over 4 years and they are not listed. What does that mean then. It seems like the debt isnt even recognised! ?

 

Thanks

[twofoot]

I would think it was on experian years ago but dropped off after six years. That being the case they cannot put it back on but they could go for a ccj and that may well appear on your file. Like it's been said, the agreement does look like it could stand up in court.

[lisaclaim]

I might just leave it for a while then and see what happens. Thanks all of you for your help on this one. take care

[lisaclaim]

Just an update on this one... not once since last year have they asked for a payment and they are still not either.. I just got a statement at the beginning of the new year 2010 and then another one a month ago which is just a general statement showing what I owe and what was paid. There are no charges on the account and no interest been applied

 

i am really confused as not sure why they are not chasing. I am no complaining lol... just not sure what might happen without me knowing !!!

 

Any ideas anyone

[Pinky69]

I wouldn't worry about them not chasing. They must by law send you a statement once a year now and it has sprobably just been sent out automaically.

[lisaclaim]

I wouldn't worry about them not chasing. They must by law send you a statement once a year now and it has sprobably just been sent out automaically.

 

 

okay thank you will just keep updating if I get anything.. tc and have a good weekend

[lisaclaim]

Hi... update even though it has been over 2 years, my husband got a letter dated 13th August 2012 (my name not on although a joint account):

 

"We are writing to notify you that BANK OF SCOTLAND PLC has assigned all of its respective rights, title and interest in respect of the above referenced accouint (including the outstanding balance) to 1ST CREDIT (FINANCE) 5 LIMITED, effective 31st July 2012.

 

.... plus more just stating that they are managing the account and we have to contact them to roganise payment on the account as a matter of urgency.

 

There is also an 'Account Assignment' attached stating balance now due and to contact them to agree repayment options etc. etc. etc.

 

Any advise would be appreciated

 

Many thanks again as always in advance x

Lisa

[lisaclaim]

Hello

 

Received a county claim form with particulars of the claim as follows:

 

The claimant claims the sum of 6,006.66 for debt and interest. On 24/02/97 the defendant entered into an agreement with BANK OF SCOTLAND PLC for aloan under reference no xxxxxx. On 22/05/98 the defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of 8,511.07. On 31/07/12 the debt of 5,410.20 was assigned to 1st Credit (Finance) 5 Ltd. The company name changed to CAI Finance Ltd on 8/1/13. On 31/05/13 CAI Finance Ltd assigned the debt to 1st Credit (Finance) Ltd. Notices of Assignment were sent to the defendant in accordance with s136 Law of Property Act 1925. AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. The sum o 5,410.20

2. Statutory interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rat of 8.00% per annum from 3/8/12 to 19/12/13 496.46, & thereafter at a daily rat of 1.19 until judgment or sooner payment.

 

In this case is it easier just to send income and expenditure sheets and what we can afford If you read through the previous notes on this case going back to 2009 you will see that a number of creditors have had this and it has now gone to 1st credit. I sent out all the appropriate CPR letters etc and did eventually receive the credit agreement although did not acknowledge with them.

 

Note on 17th May 2009 the following was sent

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Capital Bank

CH88 3AN

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number xxxxxxxx

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On 21st April 2009 I made a formal request for a true copy of the executed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 5th May 2009.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter, which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Please advise my best option as soon as someone can as the claim form is dated 20th December and I will need to do the AOS thanks

Many thanks

Edited January 2, 2014 by lisaclaim

[havinastella]

This is a very old agreement. Was THERE any 6yr period when no payment was made?

 

You need to acknowledge the claim and defend in full.

 

You need to send a CPR31.14 request to the solicitors named on the N1 form.

 

You need to send the SAR to the original creditor ASAP.

[lisaclaim]

Hello

 

To be honest I am confused with this one.It got transferred to Wescot Credit years ago and we had no communication with Capital Bank Direct at all. It went to Legal & Trade Collections before Wescot and also a solicitors but we adamantly paid the minimum and have been paying £40 a month to Wescot for a long time but stopped in 2009 due to finance problems.

 

Early 2010 we received a letter with 'Your Annual Personal Loan Statement Agreement No: xxxxxxxxxxx for the period 01/10/2008 to 23/02/2009. It shows a statement opening balance as at 1/10/2008 and then 3 payments october, november and december 2008 with a statement closing balance.

 

We had sent a letter to Capital one back in 2009 requesting the credit agreement. We did not receive so sent the one as in my above post. We then received a copy of the credit agreement in May 2009 but they never did anything and looks like they passed to another creditor ! The credit agreement was a crap copy although readable and is in this post on page 1.

 

I will dispute the claim and defend in full - thank you

 

Is this CPR 31.14 request to the solicitors OK (taken from a previous one done)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[our name and address]

[solicitors name and address]

[date]

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

Re: [claimant v hubby] Case No: xxxxx

 

On [date of claim] we received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton (CCBC) county court.

 

We confirm having returned our acknowledgement of service to the court in which we indicate our intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Prior to the issue of proceedings we had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored.

 

Please treat this letter as our request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of the document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1. the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2. any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) we have requested are copied to and received by us by [14 days from date of this letter) 4pm. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents we have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide us with a legible copy. Further, where we have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where we have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to us. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© we undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell us in writing. You must tell us before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling us you require more time you must tell us what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for us to file our defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with our request and you must state the new date for filing our defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell us in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of our defence, We will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

We do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I will also send the SAR to the original creditor as well

 

Many thanks

[havinastella]

They say you defaulted in 1998!!! When did restart paying this again?

 

I think in your CPR you'll have to ask for how the amount is made up, Letter before action etc.

 

The main point is send the SAR and if you didn't pay for 6yrs after 1998.

[lisaclaim]

We paid an agreement with westcot £40 a month. Not sure where they got the defaulted date from. Could that be there terminology from when we first got in to debt trouble and then we made an agreement.

 

I will change the letter above requests section as follows:

 

1. the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2. the default notice.

 

3. the Notice of assignment.

 

4. breakdown of how the outstanding balance and amount of debt when assigned to you has been calculated

 

5. any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim

 

 

...do you think that should suffice ?

Thanks again