Fingers Vs Barclaycard

[narry]

subbing

good luck

[RoadToRecovery]

subbing too

good luck

[the_shadow]

Any update on this fingers?

 

S.

[Fingers60]

Hi All

 

Waiting for my court date. Will update soon i hope !

 

Best

 

Fingers

[Fingers60]

Received my notice of hearing from my local county court.

 

Date is in mid November for my application for disclosure!!

 

Jesus thats 4 months away !!

 

Is it really this slow or is it just my local court ?

[the_shadow]

Received my notice of hearing from my local county court.

 

Date is in mid November for my application for disclosure!!

 

Jesus thats 4 months away !!

 

Is it really this slow or is it just my local court ?

 

Think it could be your court

 

Is this for a 20min hearing? Mine was issued late May and had a date for July, guess a quieter court.

 

Barclays new solicitors want to fight the disclosure and have requested a re-listing with a 2hr hearing

 

Will have to see what directions get sent out now.

 

S.

[Fingers60]

Think it could be your court

 

Is this for a 20min hearing? Mine was issued late May and had a date for July, guess a quieter court.

 

Barclays new solicitors want to fight the disclosure and have requested a re-listing with a 2hr hearing

 

Will have to see what directions get sent out now.

 

S.

 

Yes 20 min hearing.

 

Going to call 2morrow and see what they say.

 

F

[Fingers60]

Got my time in court mid October.

 

F

[foolishgirl]

Sounds like par for the course at the moment fingers. Must be all these CAGers blocking up the court time.

 

At least it gives you a breather & plenty of time to prepare.

[the_shadow]

My new hearing date came today also along with directions.. hearing is for 2 hours in Sept and skeleton arguments are to be served at least 2 days prior to hearing.

 

S.

[Fingers60]

Hi Shadow

 

You have 2 hours for your hearing ?

 

What stage have you got to?

 

F

Edited August 9, 2009 by Fingers60
on the advice pf a wiser one !

[the_shadow]

Hi Shadow

 

You have 2 hours for your hearing ?

 

What stage have you got to?

 

F

 

Yep, Sharkleys at the last minute hired a law firm to fight the disclosure, gave me less than 24hours to agree to an adjournment and relisting for 2 hours instead of 20mins. Court have asked for skeleton arguments to be delivered prior to the hearing in Sept.

 

Blimey, sounds like your court giving you the run around... I would ensure you keep in close contact with them by phone to ensure everything runs smoothly from now on, getting anything posted from the courts takes ages and you dont want to risk missing anything again

 

S.

Edited August 9, 2009 by slick132
Fingers asked for disrespectful comments about court to be edited

[Fingers60]

Yep, Sharkleys at the last minute hired a law firm to fight the disclosure, gave me less than 24hours to agree to an adjournment and relisting for 2 hours instead of 20mins. Court have asked for skeleton arguments to be delivered prior to the hearing in Sept.

 

Blimey, sounds like your court giving you the run around... I would ensure you keep in close contact with them by phone to ensure everything runs smoothly from now on, getting anything posted from the courts takes ages and you dont want to risk missing anything again

 

S.

 

Yes and everytime i call them they say they will only take instruction from me in writing !!

 

Im on to me 2nd official complaint with the court manager...

 

Can i take the court to court ?!

 

F:)

[the_shadow]

Yes and everytime i call them they say they will only take instruction from me in writing !!

 

Im on to me 2nd official complaint with the court manager...

 

Can i take the court to court ?!

 

F:)

 

Of course you could always get the case moved to another court.. one close but not as incompetent as this one.

 

I dont know about taking them to court, you could try going above the court managers head if the complaints are not satisfied, might be worth inquiring with ministry of justice for details of how to complain about a county court. Do so AFTER any hearing tho.

 

S.

Edited August 8, 2009 by the_shadow

[Fingers60]

Of course you could always get the case moved to another court.. one close but not as incompetent as this one.

 

I dont know about taking them to court, you could try going above the court managers head if the complaints are not satisfied, might be worth inquiring with ministry of justice for details of how to complain about incompetence in a county court. Do so AFTER any hearing tho as you wouldnt want stuff going missing etc.

 

S.

 

Yes I tried moving to another local court but they kind of blocked that idea. I think the court manager has now got the message but I will go above his head if its not sorted early next week.

 

thanks for your help Shadow

 

F

[slick132]

Hi Fingers,

 

Whilst I understand your frustration about how the court has handled your case, I think it may be unwise of you to post comments which a court or judge would find disrespectful.

 

BC and others watch the forums and could easily draw such comments to the court's attention.

 

Just my opinion.

[Fingers60]

Hi Fingers,

 

Whilst I understand your frustration about how the court has handled your case, I think it may be unwise of you to post comments which a court or judge would find disrespectful.

 

BC and others watch the forums and could easily draw such comments to the court's attention.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Good point slick , i have edited my most aggresive rant !!!

 

However all names, dates are incorrect to protect the innocent !

 

F

[Fingers60]

Hi Shadow , would you be kind enough to remove my rant copied into post 37 !!!!!

 

Cheers mate

 

F

[slick132]

Thanks for your editing and I've removed same for TS's quote.

 

[the_shadow]

Sorry guy's thought I already had last night...

 

S.

[Fingers60]

ok so an update guys

 

things have not been improving with the court...

 

-firstly I had received a letter from the court advising me that the case had been adjourned because "neither party " attended the hearing .....I spoke to the court and never really got to the bottom of it but I suspected that had brought the hearing forward without telling me or barclays.....

 

-i called the court to ask me to explain what had happened but they wouldnt confirm and just palmed me off without explanation

 

-i then had a rather strange call from the court asking me loads of questions about my case and after about 10 mins i just asked them what was going on and they said "we have lost your file"

 

-i had to copy all my correspondence and post it to them so they could create a new file

 

-i then called to check progress and to cut a long story short...i was accused of not following the court procedures by submitting an N244 as per PTs thread. I was told that I should have sent in a seperate initial claim first and then sent the N244 application thereafter ???

I asked the court clerk "if i wasnt supposed to start the claim with an N244, what was i supposed to send it" to which she replied which is now the classic response "i am sorry, I am not legally qualified to give the advice and cannot advise you" ! so i guess they are qualified to tell me what I am doing wrong but not how to do it right! so a replied "well a solicitor has advised me to do it this way" to which she wouldnt comment....i posted on PTs original thread and the advice was I had followed procedures correctly

 

-next day i had a call from the court advising me that "it was ok they had a word with the district judge, the judge was aware of this procedure and they were fine to continue with the documents as they were" !!

 

-however, i had a call last week to say my case last week had been adjourned beacuse "barclays had written in claiming they didnt have time to prepare a defence" .....

 

the reason they got away with this is due to the above problems with the court with teh admin side of handling my case

 

I am absolutely fuming here

 

the court are sending me details of tehir complaints procedure and i do now intend to make a fomral complaint agaisnt the court because the delay has financial implications for me...

 

thats it guys !!

[the_shadow]

Fingers,

 

PM sent to you with a sensitive question.

 

S.

[Fingers60]

Fingers,

 

PM sent to you with a sensitive question.

 

S.

 

Hi S

 

Nothing received.

 

rgds

 

F

[the_shadow]

Hi S

 

Nothing received.

 

rgds

 

F

 

My bad

 

Forwarded on to you now.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Ok, this may or may not help you.. hope it does but remember this HASNT been tested in court and you need to put your take on the argument.

 

CPR hearing....

 

Ok the following cases need to be looked at

 

If the same outside firm as I suggested by PM is instructed against you then read up Hands v Morrison Constuction Services Ltd[2006] It was one of there cases but in that case they were asking for disclosure rather than defending

 

In Addition:

 

Black vs Sumitomo Corp (Case Law)

Bermuda Int Securities Ltd vs KPMG (Case Law)

Hands v Morrison Constuction Services Ltd[2006]

 

 

 

The Claimant believes the task of the court in addressing an application made under this CPR rule is set out authoritatively and in detail in both [Bermuda International Securities Ltd v KPMG(2001)] and [Black v Sumitomo Corporation and others(2001)EWCA]. Namely:-

 

 

1. Claimant and defendent would be party to Proceedings (CPR 31.16(a&b)

 

The Claimant has identified in the CPR letters sent to the defendant the cause of action he holds and it is clear that the Defendant in this instance would also be the Defendant if any claim was issued by the Claimant.

 

 

2. Documents subject to standard disclosure normally (CPR 31.16©)

 

The documents requested under the CPR letters directly affect the ability of the claimant to plead accurately and indeed would be the subject of CPR31.14 or CPR 18 requests if any pleadings were brought from the Defendants side. The Claimant is unable to properly particularise his pleadings without sight of these pre-action-disclosure documents.

 

As per Guidance given by Lord Justice Rix in [Black and others v Sumitomo and others(2001) EWCA] (para 72), care has been taken to ensure that the disclosure request is narrow and that the documents requested are determinative of the dispute between the parties.

 

3. Disclosure before Proceedings (CPR 31.16(d))

 

The original agreement would be the subject of the claim and would be required to enable fair and level ground for a proper formed claim to be issued, also disclosure would enable both sides to negotiate on a level field possibly without the need for expensive litigation.

 

 

4. Courts Discretion

 

The claimant also notes in the judgement by Lord Justice Rix in [Black and others v Sumitomo and others(2003)] at para 85 “by and large the concept of disclosure being ordered at other than the normal time is presented as something differing from the normal, at any rate where the parties at the pre-action stage have been acting reasonably.”

 

The Claimant has ensured that the focus of the disclosure is narrow and that his reasons for disclosure have also been stated, the claimant has or will suffer a financial loss if these documents are not disclosed and is unable to initiate pleadings without risk of extra costs being incurred unless the disclosure is granted. At para 95 in [Black and others v Sumitomo and others(2003)] Lord Justice Rix stated "In my judgment, the more focused the complaint and the more limited the disclosure sought in that connection, the easier it is for the court to exercise its discretion in favour of pre-action disclosure, even where the complaint might seem somewhat speculative or the request might be argued to constitute a mere fishing exercise. In appropriate circumstances, where the jurisdictional thresholds have been crossed, the court might be entitled to take the view that transparency was what the interests of justice and proportionality most required."

 

Lord Justice Rix further stated at Para 68 of [black and others v Sumitomo and others(2003)] "First, that at any rate in its origin the power to grant pre-trial disclosure was not intended to assist only those who could already plead a cause of action to improve their pleadings, but also those who needed disclosure as a vital step in deciding whether to litigate at all or as a vital ingredient in the pleading of their case. Secondly, however, that (as what I would call a matter of discretion) it was highly relevant in those cases that the injury was clear and called for examination of the documents in question, the disclosure requested was narrowly focused and bore directly on the injury complained of and responsibility for it, and the documents would be decisive on the conduct or even the existence of the litigation. Thirdly, that on the question of discretion, it was material that a prospective claimant in need of legal aid might be unable even to commence proceedings without the help of pre-action disclosure."

 

 

 

 

Costs

 

The two CPR31.16 requests were not responded to by the Defendant and I note that M Briggs QC in [Hands v Morrison Construction Services Ltd] at para 55 to 58 of the judgement set out what the court would deem valid pre-action exchange of information. Clearly this has not taken place in regards this application and as such the Claimants has been forced to apply for the courts help in this matter. The Claimant therefore asks that relief is granted and that costs are awarded against the Defendant who caused this route of action to take place.

 

Further in [SES Contracting Ltd and others v UK Coal Plc and others(2007)] LJ Moore-Bick decided both parties should bear their own costs of the application. This despite neither parties breaching pre-action protocols.

Hope this helps..

 

S.