Luxx -v- RBOS **Bank resumes claim from 2009 !!??**

[Luxxinterior]

Hi,

My wife has received Court Papers from Incasso, acting for RBOS, and we will have the same in a few days from Northern Rock.

 

Both appear to be going for charging orders. My own Creditors I have managed to fend as they are legitimitally unenforceable.

 

This is the first time we have had action like this and are unsure how to proceed.

 

Can someone help please? We do not want to lose our home

 

We cannot afford their full demands and believe now it is too late to make any payment plan.

[supasnooper]

Hi there,

 

Please can you clarify what court papers you have received - Is it a Particulars of Claim (form n1) or Interim Charging Order papers (I think it is form n86) ?

[Luxxinterior]

Hi there,

 

Please can you clarify what court papers you have received - Is it a Particulars of Claim (form n1) or Interim Charging Order papers (I think it is form n86) ?

 

Hi.. Thanks for the response. It is a particulars of claim form I think.

 

The POC are as follows.... this is for the Incasso claim btw.

 

"The claimants claim is in respect of monies due pursuant to an account maintained with the claimant.....and the claimant claims 1. £5427.57

[Luxxinterior]

Hi.. Thanks for the response. It is a particulars of claim form I think.

 

The POC are as follows.... this is for the Incasso claim btw.

 

"The claimants claim is in respect of monies due pursuant to an account maintained with the claimant.....and the claimant claims 1. £5427.57

 

Incidentally, the amount claimed does not really add up, plus on request of a CCA they have drawn up a new one claiming that signatures are not needed. I dont buy that for a moment, and know we can use that as part of a defence. They need to provide the actual original right??

[supasnooper]

Ok, thanks for the info.

 

Firstly, I am presuming the POC's were issued from Northampton. If so, you will need to do the Acknowledgment of Service but do NOT submit a defence yet. The defence will be based on what, if any, documentation you receive from Incasso as a result of the 31.14 request letter you'll be sending.

The date for your defence has to be submitted is 33 days from the date of claim - mark this clearly on a calendar, put it in your phone, dairy etc. do NOT forget this date.

 

Get yourself some folders and allocate one to each creditor so your correspondence does not get muddled.

 

You'll then need to get this letter off to Incasso ASAP -

 

 

Your Name

Your Address

Your Town

Your County

Your Postcode

Date

Dear Sir,

 

Re:

In the XXXXXXXXXXX County Court

Claimant XXXXXXX -v- Defendant – Your Name

Claim Number: xxxxxxxx

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully,

Your Name

 

 

Amend to suit, do NOT sign and send by Recorded delivery.

 

I would print off a spare copy, attach your recorded delivery slip to it and put in your file so you will have a paper copy just in case your pc crashes.

 

If you get a claim from Northern Rock I would advise starting a new thread as some of the advice may differ.

[Luxxinterior]

Ok, thanks for the info.

 

Firstly, I am presuming the POC's were issued from Northampton. If so, you will need to do the Acknowledgment of Service but do NOT submit a defence yet. The defence will be based on what, if any, documentation you receive from Incasso as a result of the 31.14 request letter you'll be sending.

The date for your defence has to be submitted is 33 days from the date of claim - mark this clearly on a calendar, put it in your phone, dairy etc. do NOT forget this date.

 

Get yourself some folders and allocate one to each creditor so your correspondence does not get muddled.

 

You'll then need to get this letter off to Incasso ASAP -

 

 

 

 

Your Name

 

 

Your Address

 

 

Your Town

 

 

Your County

 

 

Your Postcode

 

 

 

Date

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re:

In the XXXXXXXXXXX County Court

Claimant XXXXXXX -v- Defendant – Your Name

Claim Number: xxxxxxxx

 

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

 

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

Your Name

 

 

 

Amend to suit, do NOT sign and send by Recorded delivery.

 

I would print off a spare copy, attach your recorded delivery slip to it and put in your file so you will have a paper copy just in case your pc crashes.

 

If you get a claim from Northern Rock I would advise starting a new thread as some of the advice may differ.

 

Thanks will do ASAP...

 

One question,

Where it says * delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim....they mentioned none of that, should i still leave it out? Would it do any harm to request them anyway?

 

I take it then nothing happens between now and then? Finding it hard to relax, but this site helps us feel empowered.

 

Thanks for the advice and help.

 

Regards

[supasnooper]

You could ask for them but they wouldn't be obliged to provide them.

 

 

To get those documents not mentioned ( but it would be wise to have them later on ) you would need to do a Subject Access Request to RBOS.

Edited April 15, 2009 by supasnooper
clarity

[Luxxinterior]

You could ask for them but they wouldn't be obliged to provide them.

 

 

To get those documents not mentioned ( but it would be wise to have them later on ) you would need to do a Subject Access Request to RBOS.

 

 

Thanks,

We may issue RBOS with a SARs request. So once again everything hangs on the CCA?

Looking good then lol

[nicklea]

A quick question for you. Is the claimant on the claim form shown as RBS or Incasso?

 

If it's Incasso then you also have the additional defence of not having received the notice of assignment

[Luxxinterior]

A quick question for you. Is the claimant on the claim form shown as RBS or Incasso?

 

If it's Incasso then you also have the additional defence of not having received the notice of assignment

 

Hmmm...the claimant says RBOS and the address to send documents is Incasso... I assume I still send the letter posted by supasnooper to Incasso?...sounds like a stoopid question,but just want to be sure

:-?

[supasnooper]

Obviously the CCA is the important document but others may come into play such as the Default Notice which may be defective

 

If you can afford the £10 for a SAR to RBOS I would do it straight away as RBOS are then obligated by law to supply you with ALL the data they hold in your name by 40 days.

 

A good SAR letter to use below -

 

Your Name,

Your Address

Your Postcode

The Data Controller

Company Name

Company Address

Company Postcode

Date

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request s7(1)

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER(S): XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

Please send me the information which I am entitled to under section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998 in relation to detailed occurrences relating to the above account number.

 

The following is by no means an exhaustive list but in the main this is what I require.

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to ALL accounting history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, all records you hold on me relevant to these accounts, including but not limited to:

 

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to the accounts.

 

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company

 

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response

 

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notices that you may have sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted.

 

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

 

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

8. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

 

9. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

10. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

11. A copy of all account statements for the duration of the agreement.

 

12. Please would you also advise me of the logic involved in any automated decisions taken by you about me pursuant to section 7(1) (d) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

13. A True copy of the original consumer credit agreement section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act of 1974.

14. If it is contended you do not hold such data before such a date, please confirm this by providing the Certificate of Destruction.

15. Any Other information relating to these accounts

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10 by postal order. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable for the previous XX years.

Furthermore, such a request for specific information to confirm my identity will not deviate or inhibit the 40 days time limit allowed for compliance with my Subject Access Request.

Please note - If I do not receive all the data I have requested within the timescale specified above,

I shall seek a Court order obliging you to do so, together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without any further notice.

Finally, I would appreciate your Company's due diligence in this matter and look forward to receiving the documentation requested.

Yours Faithfully,

XXXXXXXX

 

This would be sent unsigned, enclosing a £10.00 postal order, sent by Recorded delivery to RBOS Registered Head Office

[supasnooper]

Hmmm...the claimant says RBOS and the address to send documents is Incasso... I assume I still send the letter posted by supasnooper to Incasso?...sounds like a stoopid question,but just want to be sure

:-?

 

 

31.14 letter goes to Incasso.

 

 

 

SAR letter to RBOS

[Luxxinterior]

Hmmm...40 days, will that be too late?

 

Why is it that their POC is so vague? I have seen in other posts the same thing... can the POC be a point of argument too??

[Luxxinterior]

Thanks 1 and all so far for your advice and help. Sometimes you feel so alone in all of this.

 

Gotta bring Kids out and try to forget about all this for a few hours.

 

Hate to be a burden to anyone here, and we really appreciate all your help :grin:

[supasnooper]

You are right in saying 40 days may be too late to help with the defence you will have to submit.

 

However, having the full list of legal documents relating to the account may throw up opportunities to scupper Incasso\RBS if it gets to Court.

[42man]

Is this a bank account/overdraft ? or a credit card/loan ? And yes the POC's are very vague.....

[Luxxinterior]

Is this a bank account/overdraft ? or a credit card/loan ? And yes the POC's are very vague.....

 

 

Hi 42man ... This is for a loan that is over 9 yrs old!!!!

[Luxxinterior]

Good Morning,

Can someone tell me where on the forms from the court I request to have the case heard in our local court? Is it the bit about jurisdiction???

 

Also, is it possible to have a case delayed on Medical grounds? My Wife is 5 months pregnant, and I am not sure this stress is good for her.

[Luxxinterior]

Good Morning,

Can someone tell me where on the forms from the court I request to have the case heard in our local court? Is it the bit about jurisdiction???

 

Also, is it possible to have a case delayed on Medical grounds? My Wife is 5 months pregnant, and I am not sure this stress is good for her.

Hi

I may have posted a bit early this morning.

 

Is anyone able to help re the above questions please?

 

Thanks

[creditcardmug]

Hi, have you acknowledged service yet?

 

What is the date on the claim form?

 

On your questions, you cannot contest the courts jurisdiction if you live in england

The case will automatically be moved to your local court at the next stage, AQs

 

This will drag out for months before you have to go anywhere near a court hearing, so i dont think you need worry on that score

[Luxxinterior]

Hi,

CPR Request was sent off, they replied today, a day late saying they will request the CCA from RBOS. Obviously they do not have it themselves.

How soon can we start applying pressure so we can file our defence?

 

Regards

[nicklea]

Luxx,

 

Just to check - you have sent off the acknowledgement saying you are going to defend?

 

It is unlikely you will get a response in time so you will need to put in a holding defence basically saying that you deny the allegations and that they have not responded to your cpr request

[Luxxinterior]

Hi,

We have sent the Acknowledgement of service form, I assume I send the defence part with the defence itself?

We received a handwritten letter from the court today...Ive not seen it yet and my wife is finding it hard to read.

 

As regards putting in a defence in the absence of a complied with CPR, does anyone have any suggestions?

 

The background is as follows. The loan was taken out about 9 yrs ago, my wife has been making payments intermittently. The RBOS has sent a re-hashed version of the CCA trying to play the "signatures arent necessary" card. It was passed to Incasso since who issued court papers, and who have as yet not complied with a CPR request. I think we have about a week and a half to get our defence in!

 

Thanks

[Luxxinterior]

What is the situation when a creditor does not supply the original CCA, and tries to get away with drawing up a new agreement with all of the original terms etc on it?

I believe without the original CCA there is no way of determining the original terms.

Are they still in default by doing this?

[Luxxinterior]

Luxx,

 

Just to check - you have sent off the acknowledgement saying you are going to defend?

 

It is unlikely you will get a response in time so you will need to put in a holding defence basically saying that you deny the allegations and that they have not responded to your cpr request

 

 

Hi,

Just checked this morning with the court... the defence needs to be in by Saturday!!!! I am panicking now!

I have no idea where to start!

 

Can we request an extension from the court to put in our defence?

I really dont know what to do next!!:-?