tennant with holding rent

[loz1234]

Hi i wonder if anyone can help. I recently moved in with my partner and decided to rent my house out. My brother asked if i would rent to his ex wife as the area she lived in was not a nice one and where my house is it is, and it had an extra bedroom as the family is quiet big. I agreed to this and the set up a tenancy agreement for 6 months and then on to the rolling contract. The council have been paying her every two weeks and she pays me every two weeks. Everythink was fine until she fell out with my brother. Now she informs me that i have to give her two months notice and she is keeping the two months rent so she can start again. I understand that if i give her notice the council will re house her. She has refused to give me notice and i think this is the reason why. i contacted the council who said that will not pay me the rent until she is in 8 weeks areas. I don't know what to do. I contacted her today and asked her why the rent had not gone in and she said she was not putting. The council were as helpful as a choclate teapot i can see now why some people steer away from council tennants.

 

can anyone advise me, it does not look like i am going to get any rent but should i just serve her with the s21, and persue her in the small claims for the rest. I just don,t want her saying i threw her out on the streets, when she is creating the situation all herself.

 

Ps she has wrecked the house as well.

 

regards

[Planner]

Did she pay a deposit? and if she did, did you protect it in one of the x3 Tenancy Deposit Protection Schemes?

[loz1234]

Sorry for the delay, no she did not pay a deposit. I went and inspected the property the other day and there was mess everywhere, there were doors hanging of the kitchen cupboards and also other doors hanging of its a complete mess. I still have had no rent. This is my first time renting so i am a bit confused on where i stand. Do i need to inform my insurance company i have tenants and my mortgage company.

[raydetinu]

Firstly did your MProvider know you were renting, you have to have their permission, also you insurance will not cover you damage caused by misuse only accidental if you accidental cover!

Suggest you issue notice to quit and persue damage through the courts thats about it!

[loz1234]

Glad you told me that i did not know i had to get special permission. Will give them a call tomorrow. Do they usually give permission. I was thinking of sending her a letter about the state of the place and asking her to clean it up and then make another inspection. Is this the right way forward to get her to clean up the place. Would a week be long enough.

 

Thanks

[raydetinu]

Not normally a problem; lots of buy to let mortgages done but may affect the rate of interest they charge. But best to get it sorted. usually in the mortgage agreement what you can and cannot do.

As for cleaning up etc. best to do it all in writing, recorded or special del.

[raydetinu]

I thought it was only two months notice within the six month period; one month after the initial six months!

[Planner]

Most mortgage companies wont allow council tenants. At this stage I dont know what would be worse for you, informing the mortgage company or not, something you should seriously think about before calling anyone.

 

I think your also misunderstanding what will happen with the council when you serve her notice. If you are expecting to serve notice and a couple of weeks later she will be gone with a new council property I think you are going to be deeply mistaken. I think a more likley scenario is that you serve two months notice, she continues not to pay you for two months, on expiration of the two months notice you apply to court for a possesion order, maybe 4 to 6 weeks later you get it, at which point you will have to get the baliffs to remove her (another couple of weeks?) and then at that point the council will rehouse her.

 

You need professional legal advice so that a correct s.21 is served and once enough arrears accumulated, a s.8 notice. Please donot try and do it on your own you WILL get it wrong.

[Steve__M]

You need to get rid of her ASAP.

 

I would say that in future you get a proper landlords insurance policy that covers you for legal fees for eviction.

 

Though no policy will cover you for damage done by the tenant or the tenant's guests etc.

 

I have a residential mortgage for a property where they allowed me to let it out after I paid a £100 fee. I have to ask them every year but I only had to pay the fee once. Another mortgage I've looked at recently has a similar deal except that the fixed interest deal would come to an end immediately.

[loz1234]

Hi , thanks for all the advice, at the moment i have cantacted the council and informed them of the scenario, touch wood i have to prove she is in arrears and then they will organise paying me direct. I have contacted my insurance company and sorted it out with them. When i finally do give her notice if i am doing it under contract and giving two months notice i do not have to have a reason do i or am i incorrect, the contact has run its six month term and is now rolling.

 

On a second point, as i advised before the property is in a terrible state, i wanted to send a letter advising that the property needs a clean up but i don,t know how to word it. Also she is keeping pets in the property but there is nothink in the contract that forbids her to do so any ideas.

 

Thanks again for all your advice.

[loz1234]

Hi , thanks for all the advice, at the moment i have cantacted the council and informed them of the scenario, touch wood i have to prove she is in arrears and then they will organise paying me direct. I have contacted my insurance company and sorted it out with them. When i finally do give her notice if i am doing it under contract and giving two months notice i do not have to have a reason do i or am i incorrect, the contact has run its six month term and is now rolling.

 

On a second point, as i advised before the property is in a terrible state, i wanted to send a letter advising that the property needs a clean up but i don,t know how to word it. Also she is keeping pets in the property but there is nothink in the contract that forbids her to do so any ideas.

 

Thanks again for all your advice.

[Sali]

Check the contract for break clauses, but get rid of this tenant as soon as you can. Keep in with the council to ensure that you receive rent for all the time this tenant is in occupation, but I fear you will have a clean-up bill when she does finally move out. I know that it is easy to be wise after the event, but really, if you are to let the property again, get an agent to do it for you. Yes, you will have to pay a fee, but they will do the work of finding 'good' tenants and check their credit references. You can ask them (for an additional fee) to do the inventory check-in, which again, I feel, is worthwhile incase there are any disputes at end of lease. Pick your agent wisely and make sure (don't just take their word for it) that the deposit is protected. Also, like the other postee said, get proper Landlord insurance to cover you for litigation fees etc. It's easier than it sounds and you get peace of mind too.

[Planner]

When i finally do give her notice if i am doing it under contract and giving two months notice i do not have to have a reason do i or am i incorrect, the contact has run its six month term and is now rolling.

 

 

Thats correct (and very relevant to the point I asked about the deposit). As I also said, you should get a solicitor to do it for you or you WILL get it wrong.

[loz1234]

Sorry to be a complete novice why will i get it wrong.

[Planner]

Sorry to be a complete novice why will i get it wrong.

 

I cant comment on how you will get it wrong as there are that many ways you can get it wrong! Your obvious inexperience (not a critiscim) is only likley to compound the matter.

 

At the end of the day, its your property and if you are happy for this tenant to stay there another 6 months because of an incorrectly served s.21 or s.8 then thats your call, for the sake of a couple of £100 quid you could have the peace of mind that it is likley to be done correctly.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Planner

[Sali]

How long has this tenant been resident? When can you give her notice to quit - check the AST. Only serve the S21 if she doesn't budge.

[loz1234]

the tennant has been in since august 2008, i just want to give her two months notice which i am allowed to do. So do i just write her a letter giving her notice or seve a s21

[Sali]

Again check your AST. Mine says 'On or after [date] the LL can give two months notice to terminate the tenancy by written notice to be served by hand or by first class post or by fax and email on the Tenant...'

 

I'd send it Recorded Delivery and hand-deliver a copy, just to cover yourself.

 

I'd don't know what others would advise, but are you able to give 24 hours notice to the tenant that you wish to inspect the property, before sending your letter. Take a camera with the ability to date stamp the images to capture the current state of the house. It doesn't sound like you got a proper inventory at the outset, but it may prove useful evidence at some future date.

 

Only if she doesn't move should you need to serve your S21.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Sali

[Planner]

Again check your AST. Mine says 'On or after [date] the LL can give two months notice to terminate the tenancy by written notice to be served by hand or by first class post or by fax and email on the Tenant...'

 

I'd send it Recorded Delivery and hand-deliver a copy, just to cover yourself.

 

I'd don't know what others would advise, but are you able to give 24 hours notice to the tenant that you wish to inspect the property, before sending your letter. Take a camera with the ability to date stamp the images to capture the current state of the house. It doesn't sound like you got a proper inventory at the outset, but it may prove useful evidence at some future date.

 

Only if she doesn't move should you need to serve your S21.

 

Come on lets get a grip here people. A recorded delivery letter? you arent writing to your penpal Doris in Bognor Regis, your dealing with a tenant who obviously knows all her rights and wants you to evict her correctly so that the Council will rehouse her. A polite letter on magnolia scented Basildon Bond writing paper simply isnt going to cut it.

 

A proper s.21 notice and a proper s.8 notice (if/when there are arrears) needs to be served ASAP (in my opinion professionally). Your original post was 14th April, its now 1st May and you are still no further along in removing her from your property.

 

Rememeber this is a self help forum, theres no magic bullet on this one. You have to use the tools that the law gives you to remove her and you have to use them correctly.

 

Please do not insist on entering the property with 24hrs notice if she refuses, as you will be potentially adding harrasement to her ammunition. Even if she agrees to access do not take any pictures. You are potentially walking on very thin ice here.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Planner

[Sali]

A LL is allowed to enter the premises with 24 hours written notice just for inspection if they wish. This is part of the AST and does not constitute harrassment. There are no rules against taking photos within the house that I'm aware of.

[Planner]

A LL is allowed to enter the premises with 24 hours written notice just for inspection if they wish. This is part of the AST and does not constitute harrassment. There are no rules against taking photos within the house that I'm aware of.

 

With permission then yes, the point I was making is that theres no way to force the issue if she refuses and attempting to do so or letting yourself in on 'persumed consent' if there is no response to your request will potentially be harrasement. Just because a tenancy agreement says something doesnt make it correct.

 

I think it is inproper and irrelevant to take pictures with a resident in situ I for one as a tenant certainly would not allow it, it is most defiantley in my opinion an invasion of privacy and will potentially be used against the o/p once (if) a case is heard in court.

 

Theres a sticky on access http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/74053-access-property-landlord.html

Edited May 1, 2009 by Planner

[loz1234]

can i serve her with a section 21 straight away rather that just send her a letter giving her two months notice, by what your saying she is going to fight to stay in the property so the council rehouse her. She has done this before in three other council properites so they know what sort of tennant she is. I have already inspected the property and documented things, i do want to send her a letter asking her to clean up the place but i do not know how to word it. I want to prove to the council the reasons why i am having to evict her.

[Planner]

can i serve her with a section 21 straight away rather that just send her a letter giving her two months notice, by what your saying she is going to fight to stay in the property so the council rehouse her. She has done this before in three other council properites so they know what sort of tennant she is. I have already inspected the property and documented things, i do want to send her a letter asking her to clean up the place but i do not know how to word it. I want to prove to the council the reasons why i am having to evict her.

 

For the umptenth time Yes serve a s.21 notice right away. Once she is two payment periods in arrears, serve a s.8 as well.

[jackieandwayne]

Don;t you be worrying too much either about her getting the Council to house her when you evict her. If you are south then she'll be lucky, high shortage of social housing, if north, where there's plenty, even then they'll likely find her intentionally homeless because she chose to withold her rent. No argument, she was given the money for her rent and didn't pay it.

 

Regarding an inspection, write giving her seven days notice that you wish to enter the premises, hopefully you can get in. If not you need to look at an injunction - doesn't have to be costly, and you can do this yourself if need be. (A little tip - is the gas due for its servicing at the property? If so start making a noise about that, you have a legal duty to attend to this so must be allowed access for it - its for her safety after all.)

 

Hoping you get in - you need to have someone with you as a witness, you should go through the property with a fine toothcomb, photographing absolutely everything, and also making clear handwritten notes to correspond with your photo's. Make sure your camera will date and time for you. The best outcome is to get the tenant to sign these notes, however, they may not agree, hence the witness.

 

You should then compile a letter within the next seven days, hand delivered to the property or registered post, scheduling the damages, an estimate of the cost of each item to put right, and pointing out that you hold them liable. Keep a copy.

 

Serve your S21 NOSP now, I'd go with that rather than the bother of S8 as well, you have to wait for 8 weeks or 2 months arrears to use that one, if you want to use the mandatory ground 8. (You must make sure you hand deliver to the property, preferably getting the tenant to sign for it, failing that you will need to do a proof of service document - sure you can find one on here or google it)

 

I know you only have this one property, but its a good idea to make yourself a "property file" on a Excel Spreadsheet or similar. On this you record everything that takes place concerning the property, including an accurate report of what your tenant said about not paying the rent. The judge can see this as part of your court bundle, but even better, when the Housing Department question you (and they will) as to her homelessness, then you have a clear and accurate record of why she had to go.

 

I hope you get it sorted out - I spend all day clearing up the messes that 147 tenants can create! I know you must be completely demoralised and angry but what;s done is done and you have to deal with the mess now, so you need to stay calm and do everything by the book so that nothing back fires on you later.

 

Fingers crossed for you and do remember you got a bad apple this time, not all people on HB are like that!

[demon_x_slash]

Can I please reiterate what Planner has already said - a landlord cannot enter a rented-out property if the tenant does not give permission. You could give all the notice in the world, but if the tenant does not give permission you are inviting an unlawful entry via. disturbing the tenants' right to quiet enjoyment. Do it properly with an s.21 and get rid of her through the proper channels.