cupcake68 Vs Virgin **DISCONTINUED**

[cupcake68]

Hi Everyone

 

I requested a CCA from Virgin on 19th March 2009.

 

I haven't had any reply and their 12+2 was up on Thursday but I did receive this on Thursday EC Virgin pictures by cupcake62 - Photobucket

 

Should I send them a letter saying the account is in dispute? Are they part of Virgin? Should I also send dispute letter to Virgin (as I was planning to do before I received this)

 

Thanks for advice

[cerberusalert]

Send this to Virgin/MBNA;

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Print name do not sign

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send this to Aegis;

 

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Your Reference:

Client reference:

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as it is in dispute with ***DCA*** and has been since ***Date***

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

As ***DCA*** is now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines and s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to ***DCA*** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as ***DCA*** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If ***DCA***chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Print name do not sign

[blueda]

You say you requested a CCA from Virgin, the letter on photobucket is from AEGIS who have sent it on behalf of MBNA.

[cupcake68]

Hi Cerberusalert

 

Thanks for that I will send them both out on Tuesday!

 

Blueda

 

I missed my first ever payment to Virgin in March and CCA'd them in March, I assume because I missed that payment and I refuse to speak on the phome they have sent this from AEGIS (which might be part of MBNA?)

[blueda]

Hi Cerberusalert

 

Thanks for that I will send them both out on Tuesday!

 

Blueda

 

I missed my first ever payment to Virgin in March and CCA'd them in March, I assume because I missed that payment and I refuse to speak on the phome they have sent this from AEGIS (which might be part of MBNA?)

That is possible.

[traceyJ]

Esile172, hi, i am new to this too, and have read through a lot of this site, am i understanding this correctly, if it appears that your creditcard company (ie virgin, adsa, barclaycard etc) cannot supply you with a signed agreement within a time scale ie (12+2+30 days) and after you have sent a 2nd letter outlining their default, you could actually get the balance of your credit card written off?

[cupcake68]

Hi TraceyJ

 

From what I have learnt over the last few weeks it is a possibility but the truth of it is you often have a very long and drawn out battle - you write letters, they write letters sometimes getting to the stage where it is written off or often you get to the stage that they just don't chase any more for the debt. In the meantime you get lots and lots of phone calls and letters and possibly people calling at your door (although not as much as I first thought).

 

My view is I have nothing to loose at this point and an awful lot to gain so all the hassle is worth it and as stressful as it might be it's not as bad as the stress I have suffered for the last year trying to meet my minimum payments at whatever cost!

 

Good luck and the people on here are great so you will soon be understanding so much more!

[supasnooper]

Esile172, hi, i am new to this too, and have read through a lot of this site, am i understanding this correctly, if it appears that your creditcard company (ie virgin, adsa, barclaycard etc) cannot supply you with a signed agreement within a time scale ie (12+2+30 days) and after you have sent a 2nd letter outlining their default, you could actually get the balance of your credit card written off?

 

 

Hi esile, sorry to hijack your thread for a moment.

 

 

Hi traceyJ,

 

Welcome to CAG and hope that you find the forums a host of information.

 

However, CAG does not condone debt avoidance, but offers advice about the enforcabilty and legality of credit agreements, and other documents that may be produced by creditors.

 

Once you have received the creditors documents, it is your choice whether to continue to pay the creditor or not.

 

As esile has pointed out, it will be a rocky path to follow.

 

 

Moving onto the timescale you mention the "+30 days" has been dropped from the legislation.

 

If you wish for advice to a problem you have then post a new thread in the specific forum and section. I'm sure someone will advise you.

[the_shadow]

 

Send this to Aegis;

 

 

I think that'll be difficult as the only address for Aegis is in Mumbai, their an indian outfit that run collections for MBNA.

 

Does anybody have a uk address for them?

 

S.

[cupcake68]

Well spotted Shadow!

 

Does this imply they are part of mbna?

 

Do we just ignore it and reply to MBNA?

 

Esile

[cupcake68]

Just another question!

 

Has the account been in dispute since the day I requested the CCA? Or is it two days later(allowing for postage)? Or maybe when the 12+2 days were up in which case their letter is dated before?!

 

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

It is officially in dispute when they receive your 'in dispute' letter in post #2, they have failed to comply prior to that.

[cupcake68]

Thanks Cerberusalert

 

So Aegis dated their letter 4th April (Saturday!) and my account isn't in dispute until Thursday 16th (I am sending the letters on Tuesday)so should I ignore their letter and just send account in dispute to MBNA especially being that they are in Mumbai?!

 

Esile

[cerberusalert]

Yes Besides, Aegis are unlicenced in the UK nor are they registered with the FSA so they can't do anything anyway.

 

You should make a complaint to the OFT & the FSA though with regards to MBNA using an unregulated offshore debt collection company to harass you both on the 'phone & by mail.

[cupcake68]

Should I?

 

How do I know the calls I am getting is from abroad? I haven't answered any calls. Actually I'm not sure they have even called! Barclaycard are the problem (6 calls today from 2 different numbers - no calls from anyone else at least they respect easter sunday!).

 

Ok just checked, I have had two international calls since all this started no number known and one call from an 0870 number that is listed as mbna. really can't complain about that compared to barclaycard and nationwide!

 

Should I still complain to the OFT and FSA about the letter?

 

Should I tell MBNA if I am doing so?

 

Esile

[cupcake68]

Could I also ask...!

 

This link TC MBNA :: TC MBNA dca letter 1 after cca request picture by cupcake62 - Photobucket

is another letter received from MBNA on my o/h's account.

 

Should I send the letters Cerberusalert suggested in post 2?

 

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

Should I send the letters Cerberusalert suggested in post 2?

Yes

 

 

If Barclays are still harassing you on the 'phone (or anyone for that matter) send them this;

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

You are reminded of the following under The Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

Section 40 of the act provides that a person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:

 

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

© falsely represent themselves to be authorized in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;

(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.

 

I am of the view that your harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be further advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[cupcake68]

Thanks Cerberusalert.

 

Should I have sent the telephone harrassment letter first? I don't answer the phone so haven't actuallt told any of them to not call me.

 

I planned on sending them an account in dispute letter and enclosing a telephone harrassment letter with that, then I thought I would answer some of the calls and tell them they are harrassing me and I will be complaining. Is you suggested letter a better option?

 

thanks for your advice.

 

Esile

[cerberusalert]

The fact that they are ringing is enough, it doesn't matter whether you answer or not. Just include it with your 'in dispute' letter.

then I thought I would answer some of the calls and tell them they are harrassing me and I will be complaining.

Remember the CAG mantra..."DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM ON THE 'PHONE"

[cupcake68]

That suits me fine!! I thought I was being a wimp not answering the phone!

 

I will busy this evening as I have about twenty in dispute letters to write!!

 

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

Can't you 'copy & paste' into Word & print them off?

[cupcake68]

Oh I will but it still takes quite some time. I have so many and they are from either myself or my partner and also my dad so I have to get my head around who is what etc etc. Such a good job I took someones advice and put all this into a file other wise I would be completely lost by now!

 

And I have to get the kids to bed first!!!

 

Thanks for your advice!

[amsgirl]

subbing

[cupcake68]

Hi

 

Update.

 

I haven't heard any more from MBNA but I have had another letter from AEGIS yesterday.

 

I am going to report them on Monday as advised. Should I be sending anything else to Virgin?

 

Many thanks

 

Esile

[cerberusalert]

Just make a complaint because they should not be persuing whilst the a/c is in dispute.