What can a bailiff do regarding rail travel Magistrates fine (Non criminal)

[lisadp1970]

Hi,

 

My husband paid a fine 3 weeks ago directly to the court on 14th April.

 

Bailiff arrived on the 27/4 13 days after the fine had been paid.

 

I wrote a letter to the Bailiff company stating that the fine had been paid and that a bailiff should not be visiting

 

1, The fine had been paid

2, Heavily Pregnant woman at home

3, Autistic child in the house

 

Today the Bailiff arrived again and put another notice through the door stating that he will be back this weekend to do a removal. Red notice.

 

I have phoned the Bailiff and informed him that he shouldn't be calling for the above reasons. Of course he insists that I am responsible for the bailiff fees even though he came out to the house 13 days after the fine had been paid.

He is going to call the office.

 

Now a couple of things, can this guy just force entry with the warrant that he has? Who should I complain to now?

[sarajulldin]

firstly, if he does visit this weekend or the next few days, he is as far as i am aware not allowed to forcefully enter the house, there will find if there ask for a warrant that it was paid.

 

my advice just dont open the door simple and ring the police.

[lisadp1970]

According to Direct.Gov website a Bailiff CAN force entry into your home for an unpaid fine?

 

Now I'm pretty sure this isn't the case, but my husband is getting concerned now as we still have Marstons harassing us for a HMCS fine which was paid direct to the court 3 weeks ago, but the Bailiff insists he is coming back at the weekend for the full amount plus £225 in fees!

 

I have another thread going regarding this, but in short, we wrote to Marstons last week to let them know the fne had been paid after one of their thugs turned up to collect payment, they replied to the letter so know this is the case, yet the Bailiff turned up again today.

 

How do we get through to these "people" that the fine has ben paid, it seems like they are intent on harassing us?

 

Just need to sort out were my husband stands with this legally so need to know if a fine he recieved for forgetting his photocard one day would be considered a criminal fine?

[I've got no money]

My immediate reaction is yes - a "fine" is usually a criminal penalty HOWEVER you would need to check the penalty notice to see what provisions it was imposed under

[meshi]

What do you mean by criminal fine ?

[I've got no money]

A fine is imposed as a criminal sanction - you don't get civil fines...

 

Incidentally a fine does not have to be imposed by a court, e.g. the fixed penalty fines issued by the Police for drunk and disorderly etc

Edited May 5, 2009 by I've got no money

[meshi]

A fine is imposed as a criminal sanction - you don't get civil fines...

 

Incidentally a fine does not have to be imposed by a court, e.g. the fixed penalty fines issued by the Police for drunk and disorderly etc

 

Your first sentence is incorrect!

Edited May 5, 2009 by meshi

[tomtubby]

I would suggest that a letter of compliant is sent to the HMCS Contracts Manager within your area who has responsibility to investigate complaints as to the way that the Warrant has been enforced.

 

There are 7 Managers throughout the country. Can you please let me know whih area you live in. ie: North West, North East, London etc

[lisadp1970]

Thanks Tomtubby we live in Hertfordshire

[I've got no money]

Your first sentence is incorrect!

 

It depends if you are adopting a technical legal definition of fine - in the English Legal System a fine is a criminal penalty. I s'pose that there is an argument as to whether a fine imposed is a civil court for contempt is criminal, certainly it is proved to the criminal standard and ultimately the sanction for non payment is prison. Of hand I can't think of any other examples.

 

OP - don't forget that just because something may be a criminal penalty it doesn't necessarily result in a criminal record.

 

In terms of whether a fine for rail travel depends on whether it is actually a fine or some sort of other penalty. My recollection is that when I was admitted in 1993 the Law Society took the view that a railway fixed penalty was a criminal matter. The position may have changed which is why I suggested that the OP check the precise terms of the railway fine.

 

I should add that I am no longer practising and am no longer working in law - so that my observations and comments are made as a normal cagger.

[lisadp1970]

We visited the local fines place this morning who are going to phone the fines office that I paid on my behalf.

 

They said that if it was them they would usually accept the payment and advise the bailiffs of that or if they didn't accept the payment that they would forward it directly to the bailiffs they also said that as it has been over 3 weeks since the payment was made that the payment must have been accepted as they cut cheques every two weeks.

 

They also said that as the bailiffs have been advised as to the vulnerable people in the house that they should leave us alone.

 

They will phone me back when they have an answer.

 

Just goes to show that people are much better when you speak to them face to face.

[PizzaMaker]

 

Yes they can get into your house even if you are not there. Irs a MAGISTRATE COURT WARRANT.

 

If you have paid your fine direct to the court after the distress warrant was issued then the court will allow the bailiff company to collect their fees. This is happening all the time where people are getting a bailiff letter and deciding to pay the court direct. To be honest the court should not accept the money but then you can pay at the counter at most courts.

 

sarajulldin said:

yh there know there cants get rid of you face to face

 

Yeah but in most cases they tell you what you want to hear to get rid of you. This fine, was it for your husband?

Edited May 7, 2009 by PizzaMaker
additional info

[lisadp1970]

Well as far as I'm concerned the court HAVE accepted the money as it's now been over 3 weeks and no sign of it being returned!

 

We spoke to our local Fines Office yesterday, very helpful lady told us that they would probably have accepted the payment and informed the Bailiffs, but if for some reason the fine is not going to be accepted and the money returned to the defendant, then they must tell the Bailiffs this as obviously the money needs time to reach the defendant to pay to the Bailiffs.

 

In our case nobody has been told that the payment has been received or rejected and when you try and get an answer out of the payments cemtre for the issuing court they hang up on you, even the lady from our local fines office who is looking into it for us had the phone slammed own on her!!

 

If the Bailiff turns up again

1. Knoiwing that the fine has been paid &
2. There are 2 vulnerable people in the house that he has been informed about

Then I will take it to the very top.

The ministry if Justice is next on my list to call and we are also lodging an official complaint against the issuing Magistrates court fine collections dept.

 

PizzaMaker said:

Yeah but in most cases they tell you what you want to hear to get rid of you. This fine, was it for your husband?

 

 

Actually she was very helpful and is stll pursuing it today.

 

Yes it is for my husband

 

I need to file for a suspension of a distress warrant, I think this is form N245 (please correct me on this if I am wrong) I need to know if I have to do this at the court that issued the fine or if I can do this at my local magistrates court?

The court that issued the fine is in South London but I live in North Hertfordshire and just cannot get there.

 

Thanks

[I've got no money]

No - I don't think that you use an N245 if it is a Magistrates Court distress warrant. N245's are for County Court Proceedings

 

My recollection is that fines are transferred to your local Mags court for enforcement

 

To be honest my knowledge of fines enforcement is very out of date - your thread needs moving to the bailiffs thread

 

I'll ask a mod to move it

[42man]

I'll move this to the bailiff forum for you where hopefully you should get some more advice/comment

[lisadp1970]

Thanks for your reply.

The fine hasn't been moved to the local mags court as I've already spoken to the fines collection dept who say it is still with the other court.

 

Why do they like to make it as difficult as possible for people to get things sorted out?!

[letsmakeamark]

You need to do ask for the original fine to be transferred to your local magistrates court. Once there you can make a statutory declaration in front of the magistrates to what ever effect you want.

[lisadp1970]

How do I ask for the fine to be transferred, I keep trying to talk to this court, I have sent letters and faxes.....

[lisadp1970]

Hi,

 

I need to get a fine moved to my local magistrates court so I can go and do a Stat Dec, how do I go about this please kind people?

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Have you looked HMCS web site Her Majesty's Courts Service - Home

 

Andy

[macl1mes]

What happens if it is a fine against your son, who owns nothing in the home, due to being unemployed?

[Guest Happy Contrails]

You hand this letter to the bailiff through a window then ask the bailiff to quietly leave the property. Never open the door.

 

The Omnipotent Bailiff Co, Plc

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME]: Notice of Ownership

 

I write to you understanding you or your firm of bailiffs has seized, or is intending to seize [CHATTELS/A VEHICLE] or other property belonging to me at the above-mentioned address as collateral for an alleged debt belonging to somebody else.

 

I confirm that I am the lawful owner of the aforesaid property and contents and there is no entitlement enabling you to change ownership, possession, location, use and enjoyment of my property. This means both you and anyone acting for you are now unable to consider my goods to be prima facie the property of anyone else.

 

Please be advised that any attempt to subvert or rebuke this notice will result in a Form 4 complaint being automatically filed at the certificating court along with an application for costs without contacting you further. Both you as a firm and your bailiff may also be criminally liable for committing offences under Section 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006 and any criminal element to this matter will be passed to the police.

 

This document is handed to you in person and a photograph of you standing outside reading it has just been taken. It is now your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

YOUR NAME

 

 

[hallowitch]

macl 1 mes

 

welcome to C A G please start your own thread it will help others to help you

 

top of page bailiffs and sheriff officers click on that it will open new page

bottom of page on left new thread

[tomtubby]

 

If you have paid your fine direct to the court after the distress warrant was issued then the court will allow the bailiff company to collect their fees. This is happening all the time where people are getting a bailiff letter and deciding to pay the court direct.]

 

PM.

 

Can you provide more detail on this statement please as this is NOT my understanding.