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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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civil recovery for shoplifting


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I agree it's your decision but I do think you have made a mistake in that at the very least your daughter will now be on their website.

 

As for not being able to stop them don't kid yourself we are more influential than you seem to think. Recently & as a direct result of ordinary consumers one such site has already been closed down & there's a distinct possiblity of prosecutions by the ICO.

 

Also in the case of children the Childrens Commissioner is taking an active interest in their methods.

 

There are other surprising links to these firms which are yet to be disclosed

 

Excuse my ignorance JC, but how are these civil companies entitled to hold and process your data without your consent, especially in the case of minors who may be considered too young to give their consent in the first place? I though that's what the DPA was all about?

 

I'm not sure if it's the one you're referring to, but there was a company raided recently that was maintaining a database that contained details of construction workers...surely any such database maintained by RLP would be exactly the same??

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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We need to find out if Cireco Ltd have registered with the OFT as a data controller.

 

WelshMam, my letter to Boots is querying why my daughter was asked to sign a civil recovery form without having a parent/representative present. She's probably given her consent to be placed on RLP database without knowing the full facts. As she's said, it was a lovely security guard that didn't want to involve the police.

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Tank-fink, thats probably a standard letter they send everyone who agrees to pay something to their company, if you'd offered £20 I bet they would have accepted.

 

Regardless of what you pay them your daughter's name will still be on their dishonesty database preventing her from gaining employment. See link below.

 

IntegrityScreening.co.uk

 

I would like to know how you qualify for an entry on the 'dishonesty databse' as well, is it purely by RLP accusing you or after the courts have made judgement? I know which I would put my money on that they are implemenyting.....

 

If that is the case then there is nothing to stop someone setting one up also and putting anyone they pleased on it just because they didnt like them! Hey maybe we should set one up and put RLP on it :)

 

Yorky.

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As I understand it, if a company is providing an opinion as to an individual's creditworthiness, then they need a consumer credit licence. Looking at the Cireco website (which is, incidentally, not compliant with the Companies Act 2006), I'd be inclined to think that they are effectively acting as a CRA. You could always ring the OFT to check.

 

I couldn't find Cireco on the ICO database; if, as their website states, they have been established since 2005, one would have expected them to have registered as data controllers by now.

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I do get the impression that these linked companies are playing fast & loose with the law when it comes to registering their activities..............a little ironic when you think about their claims to ensure probity by others........... hypocrisy comes to mind

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they (RLP) are probably being 'affected' by this here little website?

 

these orwellian visions are scary....maybe i should hang in and 'fight the cause'? ha ha....

 

will you all put together and back my legal funds in the fight against them keeping my daughters history/hickup on file....? ('money talks' and very loudly to me at the mo.)

 

i could maybe put my own neck on the line , but my daughter ruth:) must stay annonimous

 

Does the CAG have a any 'fighting fund' to provide for legal costs/fees?

 

If not, and If you all care so much, are you willing to donate to such a fund...i'll start, and as the main beneficiary of the 'save ruths reputation' campaign, i will be willing to donate as much as ten pounds.....how does that sound..

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TF, dont pay them anything! They can persue it as much as they like, but without a court ruling they cant collect it.

Also with regard to the database thing, there was a case about building site operatives being on a blacklist operated by several companies and this was found to be illegal, see below.

Builders' blacklist triggers data protection clampdown - Information World Review

 

similar sort of thing. Also if they are acting as referance agency then they will need a licience.

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Trouble is that when the victim's mother contacted the ICO whoever dealt with her claimed RLP COULD blacklist the kid. This is the stuff of nonsense as a I doubt any court in the land will allow some private agency to do this

 

I'm not a victim but if I were I would kick up an almighty stink with the so-called regulators, my MP AND the Ministry of Justice

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well, we offered them 150, and have just received a letter stating they wouldn't accept it. (i can scan the letter and post it on here if anybody interested as in this letter they say they dont need cc licence)

my gf wants to pay as she doesn't want to be involeved in this anymore. i guess i would feel the same. if you've done something wrong you just want to forget about it and move on, so we'll just pay..

i feel quite angry about RLP and about the govermental bodies who allow their existance.. it is very wrong that some people commit crimes such as theaft, but there is police in our society to deal with it, and the police should issue fines, not parasites like RLP

 

thank you for all you help and advice

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  • 1 year later...
She has been arrested.She has admitted guilt.

 

I am a security officer who has worked for numerous companys and clients including Boots, House of Frasier, Tiso's, French Connection, River Island and Great Outdoor World. I have issued a variety of civil recovery fines to people who have shoplifted. The amount varies from store to store and depends on what has happened. Civil recovery can now be issued to 14 year olds and upwards from the last i heard. There parents are responsable for paying this.

 

The civil recovery is issued to cover the costs of security, i.e wages for the security officer, insurance for him/her, cctv costs, costs of the witness i.e manager or member of staff, security officers uniform, radio and other items used to help detain the person in question.

 

The best thing to do in a situation where you have been issued one is to pay it. If the police say you have done it and charge you then there isnt anyway of getting out of paying it, even if you are unemployed. They will take it off you in installments of as low as £5.00 per month.

 

If you need to no anymore just ask.

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If you need to no anymore just ask.

 

Ok, here are some questions:

 

1. Bearing in mind that in general only courts and local authorities can issue fines, and that the our constitution is clear that there can be no penalty without trial, please explain under which legal authority you are empowered to issue fines.

 

2. Please provide a reference to the statute law that states that parents are responsible for paying for civil recovery in respect of their offspring.

 

3. Please let us know who trained you, so that we can report them to the relevant authorities for their failure to carry out their work effectively.

 

4. Do you need help with spelling and punctuation?

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RLP popping up offering false advice: things are getting desparate then, just like for the PPCs a couple of years ago.

 

Cue the newly-registered poster claiming to have lost in court with £5k costs awarded to RLP, how could he have been so stupid, etc. etc.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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I am a security officer who has worked for numerous companys and clients including Boots, House of Frasier, Tiso's, French Connection, River Island and Great Outdoor World. I have issued a variety of civil recovery fines you can't 'fine'anyone to people who have shoplifted says you but does a court agree with you if not its ONLY an allegation. The amount varies from store to store and depends on what has happened. Civil recovery can now be issued to 14 year olds and upwards from the last i heard. Although it does happen it shouldn't happen to minors There parents are responsable for paying this. Oh dear who told you that nonsense, a civil recovery firm no doubt

The civil recovery is issued to cover the costs of security, i.e wages for the security officer, insurance for him/her, cctv costs, costs of the witness i.e manager or member of staff, security officers uniform, radio and other items used to help detain the person in question.

 

The best thing to do in a situation where you have been issued one is to pay it. If the police say you have done it and charge you then there isnt anyway of getting out of paying it, even if you are unemployed. They will take it off you in installments of as low as £5.00 per month. Contrary to popular belief the police accusing a person of shoplifting is NOT based on 1st hand evidence its based on what the 'security' guard claims & no even if accused by the police you DON'T have to pay

 

If you need to no anymore just ask.

 

I don't think so somehow

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Ok, here are some questions:

 

1. Bearing in mind that in general only courts and local authorities can issue fines, and that the our constitution is clear that there can be no penalty without trial, please explain under which legal authority you are empowered to issue fines.

 

2. Please provide a reference to the statute law that states that parents are responsible for paying for civil recovery in respect of their offspring.

 

3. Please let us know who trained you, so that we can report them to the relevant authorities for their failure to carry out their work effectively.

 

4. Do you need help with spelling and punctuation?

 

SP Its probably you know who:lol:

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RLP popping up offering false advice: things are getting desparate then, just like for the PPCs a couple of years ago.

 

Cue the newly-registered poster claiming to have lost in court with £5k costs awarded to RLP, how could he have been so stupid, etc. etc.

 

It was only a matter of time init!

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ADVICE FOR 'SECURITY' GUARDS ( those who employed in civil recovery)

FPN's are NOT an admission of guilt & do NOT impugn on a persons character ..........period

 

Regina v Hamer

[2010] WLR (D) 235

 

CA:

Thomas LJ, Treacy, Saunders JJ:

17 August 2010

 

A fixed penalty notice which had been issued to a defendant pursuant to s 2 of the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 was not a conviction, admission of guilt, proof that a crime had been committed, or a stain on the defendant’s character, and therefore could not be regarded as evidence which impugned the character of the defendant or admitted as such.

The Court of Appeal (Criminal Divison) so held when dismissing an appeal by the defendant, Gareth Hamer, against his conviction on 12 January 2010 by the Crown Court at Harrow, before Judge Holt and a jury, for an offence of assault occasioning actual bodily harm, contrary to s 47 of the Offences against the Person Act 1861.

The prosecution alleged that the defendant had assaulted the complainant taxi driver after an evening out. The defendant pleaded self defence. He had no previous convictions or cautions, but had received a fixed penalty notice under s 2 of the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 for a minor public disorder matter, two months after the instant offence. After discussion between counsel and the judge regarding whether a good character direction should be given, the judge ruled that the jury should be told about the defendant’s penalty notice, but directed the jury that they might think it fairer to disregard it and treat him as of good character, and he gave the defendant a full good character direction. The defendant appealed on the ground that the judge had erred in admitting the fixed penalty notice, since it was not a criminal conviction and involved no admission of guilt.

THOMAS LJ, delivering the judgment of the court, said that the fixed penalty notice scheme was a method of dealing with low level crime without the need to prove the offence and commission of it by the person to whom it was issued. It involved no admission of guilt, nor did it create a criminal record. The scheme went no further than that. If the notice was accepted, payment of the penalty provided that no further action could be taken. The notice was distinct from a caution, where commission of a crime was acknowledged. Its issue was not a form of justice, as justice normally included guilt. It was not a conviction, admission of guilt, any proof that a crime had been committed, or a stain on the persons character. It therefore followed that it was not admissible as an admission of an offence or of bad character in the sense of impugning the defendant’s character. It might be that in some cases the Crown might wish to adduce evidence regarding matters in respect of which the notice had been issued. Counsel for the Crown had not wished the issue of the notice to go before the jury, and it was only at the insistence of the judge that it had done. It was unfair to mention the notice without an attempt to call evidence regarding the circumstances of it. The notice was entirely irrelevant and ought to have been kept from the jury. However, since the defendant had no plausible explanation for the injuries caused to the complainant, in all the circumstances the conviction could not be regarded as unsafe.

Appearances: James McCrindell (assigned by the Registrar of Criminal Appeals) for the defendant; Simon Gladwell (instructed by the Crown Prosecution Service, Harrow) for the Crown.

Reported by: Sharene Dewan-Leeson, Barrister

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  • 3 months later...
Tank-fink, thats probably a standard letter they send everyone who agrees to pay something to their company, if you'd offered £20 I bet they would have accepted.

 

Regardless of what you pay them your daughter's name will still be on their dishonesty database preventing her from gaining employment. See link below.

 

[integrityScreening.co.uk[/url]

 

It seems that such blacklisting can occur even when no payment has been made, no guilt has been proved or admitted and where the client company has apologised to the victim of RLP's unwarranted demands. Such was the case of the Norfolk student who was featured on the recent 'Inside Out East' programme on BBC 1 - Boots had wrongly accused her of having attempted to steal two tubes of lip gloss. Despite having dropped the case after the BBC became involved, despite having issued a rather contrite apology and despite Boots having sent a cheque for 200 pounds as compensation, that student was still listed on the Cireco "Integrity" database.

 

If one looks at some of the other sources and types of data held by Cireco - such as the American 'government' OFAC (SDN) list or some list(s) of what they are pleased to call 'Politically Exposed Persons' (source of data unknown) - one might begin to feel rather more uneasy about what they do.

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  • 8 months later...

i have had the same thing,just found out today that my daughter had been caught shoplifting,god knows why as she has always been well provided for,from a good background and works hard at college,anyway she was caught with a £5 tester foundation at boots,they told her she could either accept a fine or be arrested and end up having a criminal record,she was scared of me and her father finding out so she opted for the fine,we found out when a letter arrived to say that she had to pay £137.50,as she has no income are we as parents liable to pay this,any info would be grateful,fair enough i agree with what companies are doing to re-coup money from shoplifters and do not condone what she did,and i know she is ashamed of herself too,but i do think that the amount of fine is severe(she is 17)

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