Letter From Makenzie Hall

[amica]

Hello, this is my first post on this forum.

 

My wife received a letter from these idiots a few weeks ago regarding a debt she doesnt remember from 1998. Panicking she phoned them and paid half the agreed amount which was around £480, agreeing to pay the other half next month. After the initial payment I did some research and found that we could have written to them quoting to the statute barred rules and not paid a penny.

 

What I did do was write to them quoting the credit consumer act asking for a copy of the agreement enclosing the necessary payment of £1. They replied (enclosing my postal order) saying that collection was on hold while they write to the creditors for the agreement. If they cant get a copy within 40 days they will close their file and return back to the creditors.

 

What my question is do they have 40 days to respond to me or are they still bound to provide me with the relevant agreement in 12 days?

[cerberusalert]

They have 12 days.

 

The debt is still Statute barred and will always remain so. Just because your wife paid half of it doesn't alter anything, but I'm afraid you've lost that money now.

[amica]

Thanks for the reply. I thought it only remained statute barred if you do not acknowledge the debt or make a payment. Thats what ive read on other forums anyway.

[Nottsdave]

As Cerberusalert says

 

The debt is still Statute barred and will always remain so. Just because your wife paid half of it doesn't alter anything, but I'm afraid you've lost that money now.

 

Notts

[amica]

Ok thanks for the advice. What would you advise my next step to be? Should I write back to them reiterating the fact that they only have 12 days to supply the information and not 40? If yes then should I mention that the debt is statute barred?

[cerberusalert]

Thanks for the reply. I thought it only remained statute barred if you do not acknowledge the debt or make a payment. Thats what ive read on other forums anyway.

 

If you have gone a full six year period without written admission of the debt & not made any payment for that period the debt becomes Statute Barred & nothing can undo that fact. You could put an advert in the papers admitting to the debt but there would be no way legally that a creditor could enforce payment.

[cerberusalert]

send them this;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Acc/Ref No

 

You have contacted us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by ourselves.

 

We would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 “an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.”

 

We would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that “it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period”.

 

The last payment of this alleged debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from us in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, we suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

 

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that “continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970”.

 

We await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed and that no further contact will be made concerning the above account after that last letter.

 

We look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Print Name do not sign

[amica]

Thanks but thing is we have made a further payment since the debt was created. What I need I guess is a letter template that is the next step when the DCA do not provide me with the credit agreement after 12 days. I can then add that the debt is over 6 years old and that in that time we have heard nothing and made no payment until recently.

[cerberusalert]

Has there been a full six year period within the life of the debt where no payment or acknowledgement of it was made?

[amica]

Yes, the first time we heard about it was when we received the letter from Makenzie Hall. They of course could provide no information as to what the debt was for hence my letter asking for proof.

[cerberusalert]

In that case the only letter you need to send them is the one above. The onus of proof is on them, you do not have to prove anything. No matter what they send in reply to your CCA request, it doesn't negate the fact that it is Statute Barred.

[amica]

Thanks again for all your advice. I guess the fact that they have returned my payment means that they probably know they cannot prove the debt. I will just wait and see what happens.

[cerberusalert]

MacKenzie Hall specialise in trying to collect unenforceable & Statute Barred debts....they are known to be the bottom feeders in the murky waters of debt collection. The only thing which may happen now is because they think they have found a 'mug' they may still try to collect more money from you, but all you have to do is be firm with them & they'll crawl back under their rock in Kilmarnock.

[amica]

Ive just checked and the 12 days that MH had to respond with a copy of the credit agreement is up today. Is there a template letter on this site I can use in this situation? Ive had a look but cant see where they would be.

[mr.ton]

Demand a refund from Muck Hall for monies already paid.

If they refuse, report them to the OFT & trading standards.

[amica]

Funny you should mention a refund, I was thinking a long the same lines. As they cannot prove my wife owes the debt then they have no right to collect payment. I think I will include that in my letter to them. What Im after though is some legal wording that says they have failed to comply with my request within 12 days and that there 40 day limit is nonsense. I have just read on another forum though that they can put it on hold for 30 days. Is this the case? It all seems rather confusing.

[cerberusalert]

Because you have paid some of this money voluntarily even though the debt is Statute Barred it still exists although it is unenforceable. In the eyes of the law you are deemed to have made a 'gift' of the money to MH, likewise any goods or money you received from the original creditor are seen in the same light. Of course you can request your money back from MH but we all know what their reply will be.

 

Part of the Consumer Credit Act was changed last May. This related to the fact that a creditor committted an 'offence' if they failed to supply a CCA request within a further 30 days after the initial 12 day period. This 30 days was removed from the Act.

 

In this case it is a moot point whether they supply the CCA in the specified time, or if indeed they provide one at all. The fact that it is 'Statute Barred' is an absolute defence in law & overides the defence that it is unenforceable due to their non compliance of your CCA request.

[amica]

Ok so to clarify, now that the 12 days is up I can write to them as they have not supplied me with the CCA. There is no further limit of 30 days and their letter stating that they have put the account on hold for a further 40 days is nonsense.

[sam614]

Ok so to clarify, now that the 12 days is up I can write to them as they have not supplied me with the CCA. There is no further limit of 30 days and their letter stating that they have put the account on hold for a further 40 days is nonsense.

 

 

yep.times up:)for cca

but as said you should not care if or when then send one,

statute barred .....end of:wink:

 

SAM:pLOWELL DETESTER

[amica]

MH have just phoned my wife asking fo the 2nd instalment for this debt. My wife reffered them to their letter in response to our CCA request in which they said the acct was on hold. They admitted that they were unlikely to get this information but apparentley this doesnt matter as my wife still needs to pay up. My wife then mentioned the fact that the debt is statute barred but apparently according to MH it isnt because she made a payment last month.

 

They are complete A holes!!! I will compiling a follow up letter to them shortly.

[the_shadow]

MH have just phoned my wife asking fo the 2nd instalment for this debt. My wife reffered them to their letter in response to our CCA request in which they said the acct was on hold. They admitted that they were unlikely to get this information but apparentley this doesnt matter as my wife still needs to pay up. My wife then mentioned the fact that the debt is statute barred but apparently according to MH it isnt because she made a payment last month.

 

They are complete A holes!!! I will compiling a follow up letter to them shortly.

 

I wish I'd found this site before my wife had dealings with these people.. all sorted now but she was liberated of £68 by MH on a debt she shouldnt have paid.

[cerberusalert]

What do you expect when they've got highly trained & motivated staff like this?

 

 

[mr.ton]

I wouldnt agree that the money legally could be viewed as a "gift" as such...it can be argued that the money was paid under the pressure of threats & intimidation etc....

[rameses_qc]

In legal terms, the money is NOT a gift. It's a payment of a lawful debt. The fact that it is statute barred doesn't mean the debt doesn't exist; it does exist. It means that the creditor CANNOT take any formal action of any kind to enforce it. The payment made will not be returned, as it's a payment towards a debt. The debtor needn't pay any more, and the creditor should think themselves lucky that they got anything at all. If Muck Hall has used deception and given the impression that enforcement action IS possible, then they have breached the OFT guidelines (not that thye will be bothered) and this fact should be reported to OFT to give them more ammunition to revoke MH's licence. Asking for a CCA statement or Agreement is unnecessary and irrelevant on a statute barred debt

[sam614]

I wouldnt agree that the money legally could be viewed as a "gift" as such...it can be argued that the money was paid under the pressure of threats & intimidation etc....

 

without a doubt,demand your money back

would send a letter saying you

MAY have to resort to small claims court

MAY have to involve ts and fos

MAY have to contact watchdog

 

:D:D

SAM:pLOWELL DETESTER