NCO & Paypal

[Nitrowing]

Hello all, I found this site googling NCO and read the 20 pages of other peoples hassle with them - so I think you may be in a good positon to offer some advice!

 

I bought a phone from a company in Australia and paid them US$995 via Paypal that was set up as the default payment on their website.

 

The phone never arrived.

 

I filed a non-arrival of goods with Paypal which they upheld and refunded me £40. !!!!

 

I rang my bank (Abbey) and told them what had happened, they informed me that I was covered by the Direct Debit regulations and credited my account for the full amount.

 

Paypal got shirty and started demanding their money back.

They set Wescot on me who did the 4 phone calls a day job on me + letters.

I wrote to them and Paypal about harassing phone calls and eventually they gave up. However, Paypal continued to insist that I owed them money for goods I didn't receive as they HAD refunded me all the money they could recover from the phone company and that according to their T&C I was liable.

 

I received a letter from NCO yesterday (13th March) dated 5th March (postal service must be getting slow in the UK!) stating ~payment of £624.66 is required within 7 days~

 

What am I meant to do about this?? To say that I feel disgruntled about paying over £600 for a phone I never saw would be an understatement

[Conniff]

Send it back and tell them it's too early and can they resend it on 1st April.

 

Just tell them you are in dispute with Paypal and to hand it back.

[buzby]

There's a lot wrong with this. For a start, if the seller was in Australia, your would have paid in Australian Dollars, NOT US - and the difference between the $$$ currencies are not commensurate.

 

Paypal will have reversed the transaction in its entirety, so quite why you got the amount you did is a mystery. By reversing the Paypal payment - you've broken the rules as you've really had TWO refunds, one from Paypal and one from your bank. As Paypal are simply an intermediary (like Google checkout) the reversal should not have been allowed.

 

What you need to do to sort out this mess is work out how much you ACTUALLY paid when buying the goods, and what you were refunded. Differences in exchange rates are not covered (as this is outwith the scope, and has plus and minuses for both sides). I'd speak with Paypal and find out why the amounts were different, but you have no right of set-off on the two amounts you received. Only the Paypal refund was legit.

[Nitrowing]

There's a lot wrong with this. For a start, if the seller was in Australia, your would have paid in Australian Dollars, NOT US - and the difference between the $$$ currencies are not commensurate.

 

Paypal will have reversed the transaction in its entirety, so quite why you got the amount you did is a mystery. By reversing the Paypal payment - you've broken the rules as you've really had TWO refunds, one from Paypal and one from your bank. As Paypal are simply an intermediary (like Google checkout) the reversal should not have been allowed.

 

What you need to do to sort out this mess is work out how much you ACTUALLY paid when buying the goods, and what you were refunded. Differences in exchange rates are not covered (as this is outwith the scope, and has plus and minuses for both sides). I'd speak with Paypal and find out why the amounts were different, but you have no right of set-off on the two amounts you received. Only the Paypal refund was legit.

 

The selling price was definately in US dollars.

Paypal stated that the £40 recovered was all they could get.

I sent a cheque to Paypal (which they cashed) for the amount they recovered when my bank refunded me.

 

Surely Paypal should be chasing the vendor for the money, not me?

Why would my bank have refunded me my money if I wasn't entitled to it?

[buzby]

(1) The prices on ebay are dynamic. (org in to the national sites .com or .uk to see the differences). If the price was shown in US$, you would have been viewing it on eBay,Com. The 'native' amount can be seen if you log into their 'home' website - this is what Paypal will (usually) pay the vendor. A registered Australian vendor would be paid in AUS$.

 

(2) Since last year, Paypal have guaranteed sales up to £500, so PayPal underwrite this, it is not limited to what they have left in their account. This only works for those vendors that offer this - but it is worth checking if you can. For those purchases that aren't protected in this way what they outlined - 'we'll give you the rest when we can', is what they do - and they pursue the seller (in much the same way they're doing to you now).

(3) Do you know where the funds went to when you sent your cheque? It needed to be credited to your account. Was it? This arrangement is really messy, sure the vendor owes Paypal, but they don't view you any differently - because of your reversal, you moved onto their hit list.

(4) The bank refunded your money in error. They can only do a reversal in the case of fraud, or through a failing of the money processor. PayPal didn't rip you off, therefore as a funds processor, the person that arranged the reversal made a monumental mistake. Do a search in the forum for 'Google Checkout' and you'll see the usual response.

[Nitrowing]

This wasn't an ebay purchase, the phone website offered payment through Paypal and as it was under the £500 (at the time) I thought everything would be covered.

How would I ever know how much Paypal recovered from the phone company, already and in the future?

 

Here is Paypal's last email to me...

 

A review of your PayPal account registered under email address

****************, shows that on 26 October 2007 you sent a payment in

the amount of $955.00 USD to **********, ******************

(transaction ID *************). On 6 December 2007 you filed a dispute

citing Non receipt of goods, case PP***********. On 7 December 2008 you

decided to escalate this dispute to a claim. At this point you were advised

that by ending communication with the seller, you were asking PayPal to

investigate the case and decide the outcome in accordance with the terms of

PayPal’s User Agreement.

 

In the course of our investigation, the seller failed to respond with proof

of a refund to you or proof of shipment for the merchandise involved in

this transaction. As such, this claim was closed in your favour on 18

December 2007 and you were credited with a refund in the amount of $96.55

USD, according to the PayPal Buyer Protection Programme which was offered

for this item.

 

On 23 January 2008 the instant transfer failed as you had filed an

indemnity claim with your bank, as such your PayPal account showed a

negative balance in the same amount of the payment you had sent to Mr.

Hutcheson. Please be advised Mr. Owen that when you file an indemnity claim

your bank take back the money from PayPal, this is the reason why your

account is negative. Please be advised that your PayPal account shows an

outstanding balance in the amount of -$904.44 USD which is due to PayPal.

 

I apologise for any inconvenience caused regarding this matter and,

although we deeply regret the negative experience you have had, we reaffirm

that all actions have been taken in accordance with our User Agreements.

 

In order to use the PayPal service, each user must accept and agree to the

terms of the online User Agreement (including the policy statements

incorporated therein). Subsequent to registration, the PayPal User

Agreement is accessible via the User Agreement link located on every page

of the PayPal website. The terms of the PayPal User Agreement apply and

legally bind each user every time they use the PayPal service. When you

opened your PayPal account on 26 February 2002, you were required to tick a

box accepting the PayPal User Agreement. Portions of the PayPal User

Agreement specific to your complaint include the following:

 

 

User Agreement

 

1.1 PayPal is only a Payment Service Provider.]

 

10.2 Actions by PayPal.

 

13.1 Buyer Protection Programmes.

 

13.13 Buyer Complaint Policy Benefits.

 

Conclusion

 

Please be advised that this is our final response on this matter. However,

should you have any further questions or concerns you can contact me

directly at [email protected]. You might also like to note that if you

are not satisfied with our response, you can refer this matter to the UK

Financial Ombudsman Service (“FOS”) within the next six months; see section

14.2 of our User Agreement.

 

Or you can also refer this matter in writing to our regulator at the

following postal address:

 

Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF)

110, Route d’Arlon

L-2991 Luxembourg

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Francesca Palazzolo

Executive Escalations

PayPal, an eBay Company

[andydd]

This wasn't an ebay purchase, the phone website offered payment through Paypal and as it was under the £500 (at the time) I thought everything would be covered.

How would I ever know how much Paypal recovered from the phone company, already and in the future?

 

Here is Paypal's last email to me...

 

A review of your PayPal account registered under email address

****************, shows that on 26 October 2007 you sent a payment in

the amount of $955.00 USD to **********, ******************

(transaction ID *************). On 6 December 2007 you filed a dispute

citing Non receipt of goods, case PP***********. On 7 December 2008 you

decided to escalate this dispute to a claim. At this point you were advised

that by ending communication with the seller, you were asking PayPal to

investigate the case and decide the outcome in accordance with the terms of

PayPal’s User Agreement.

 

In the course of our investigation, the seller failed to respond with proof

of a refund to you or proof of shipment for the merchandise involved in

this transaction. As such, this claim was closed in your favour on 18

December 2007 and you were credited with a refund in the amount of $96.55

USD, according to the PayPal Buyer Protection Programme which was offered

for this item.

 

On 23 January 2008 the instant transfer failed as you had filed an

indemnity claim with your bank, as such your PayPal account showed a

negative balance in the same amount of the payment you had sent to Mr.

Hutcheson. Please be advised Mr. Owen that when you file an indemnity claim

your bank take back the money from PayPal, this is the reason why your

account is negative. Please be advised that your PayPal account shows an

outstanding balance in the amount of -$904.44 USD which is due to PayPal.

 

I apologise for any inconvenience caused regarding this matter and,

although we deeply regret the negative experience you have had, we reaffirm

that all actions have been taken in accordance with our User Agreements.

 

In order to use the PayPal service, each user must accept and agree to the

terms of the online User Agreement (including the policy statements

incorporated therein). Subsequent to registration, the PayPal User

Agreement is accessible via the User Agreement link located on every page

of the PayPal website. The terms of the PayPal User Agreement apply and

legally bind each user every time they use the PayPal service. When you

opened your PayPal account on 26 February 2002, you were required to tick a

box accepting the PayPal User Agreement. Portions of the PayPal User

Agreement specific to your complaint include the following:

 

 

User Agreement

 

1.1 PayPal is only a Payment Service Provider.]

 

10.2 Actions by PayPal.

 

13.1 Buyer Protection Programmes.

 

13.13 Buyer Complaint Policy Benefits.

 

Conclusion

 

Please be advised that this is our final response on this matter. However,

should you have any further questions or concerns you can contact me

directly at [email protected]. You might also like to note that if you

are not satisfied with our response, you can refer this matter to the UK

Financial Ombudsman Service (“FOS”) within the next six months; see section

14.2 of our User Agreement.

 

Or you can also refer this matter in writing to our regulator at the

following postal address:

 

Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF)

110, Route d’Arlon

L-2991 Luxembourg

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Francesca Palazzolo

Executive Escalations

PayPal, an eBay Company

 

Jeez..What a confusing mess !

 

So it appears that althought the bank refunded you , that money was just taken out of your paypal acount and therefore you have a negative balance that they claim they owe you ?

 

I'm in a similar situation having been the victim of a [problem], this was about 3 months ago, i occasionally get letters asking me to pay money into my account (I cant because i closed it), the letter then goes on to provide me with a US address to send cheques to !, you will find that half the time Paypal really do not know what they are doing and pointing out that it is in their T & C's doesn't neccasarily make it legal and correct (as many of us have found out when claiming back bank charges, etc).

 

I do believe that Paypal have yet to successfuly pursue anyone through the UK courts to get money back owed due to a negative balance, you may like to verify this for yourself by searching this and other sites (there is no shortage of anti-Paypal ones).

 

I've also seen plenty of template letters to be used to send to a DCA when Paypal pass it onto them, maybe you would like to check the Peanaltycharges site as the owner of that is due in court to fight against Paypal.

 

What is the reason that despite Paypal siding with you they could only refund you $96 ?