Link claimform - old GE Money debt **CLAIM STRUCK OUT**

[diamondgirl]

Never tried it but I'll have a go = thats me nearly always williing to have a go and thanks

[diamondgirl]

Copy of AQ and letters/credit agreement etc received from Link today

note the date of the agreement to what they say on the Court Form in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[diamondgirl]

Ok the agreement relates to a Store Card which was changed a couple of years or so ago to a Credit Card they have only produced the Store Card Application which was never hand written it does have something at the bottom which we could not enhance about it being digital image. Definately my signature but I never received a hand written form. Something doesnt seem right there. Link have not quoted any specific dates only their application. Had statements send with it showing back to 06 but nothing to say it had changed from a Store Card to a Credit Card - how does that stand. GE Money have added loads of charges, late payment fees etc., Never received the default notice that they have sent a copy of.

I do need a lot of help with this. I have to return the forms to the court with my defence by the 30th March. Not had anything back from GE Money re Subject Access.

Loads of help please:)

[diamondgirl]

I'll study the statements etc and everything else Link have sent and post any further information I can find. I certain need help with this please.

Thanks for everyones help so far:)

[foolishgirl]

Firstly the assignment has come from Link not GE - wrong!

Secondly - if they are claiming this as a default notice, it's wrong! (it has to be in a prescribed form)

Thirdly - you say the agreement looks iffy? This is def. a credit card application. Are you sure you never signed one? Could your signature have been copied & pasted from something else d'you think?

[diamondgirl]

I suppose it is possible the signature was copied and pasted because Im sure that I did not sign anything when the storecard was changed to a credit card but I certainly never got a copy of it.

There is something at the bottom of one sheet that I'm trying to read it is very poor - something like its been digital enhanced - I'll get it if it kills me.

The statements I've got from Link are not copies of original statements ie no letter head just GE Money address and listed items nothing like the original statements are.

I'm going to have another look through and see if there is anything I've missed.

[diamondgirl]

Just checked on credit report what I can see seems all have accepted payment with no problems except there is no GE Money account at all registered it just shows Link going back to December 2008 stating the account is in default due to non payment. Liars they just didnt want it. It doesnt say they issued the default. I'm goting to check the other agencies.

 

Statements from GE Money never received any after May 08 when they started to received payments on the DMP.

July only has Account Cover and Interest on.

August had Debit Adjustements on twice and External transactions Debit Adjustments on twice same in September, Oct and Nov. The Default Notice was attached after the Oct Statement but has no date on it as in the previous post. Then there is a sheet stating Notice of Sums in Arrears.

Still nothing today from GE Money.

Edited March 21, 2009 by diamondgirl
more info

[foolishgirl]

Just checked on credit report what I can see seems all have accepted payment with no problems except there is no GE Money account at all registered it just shows Link going back to December 2008 stating the account is in default due to non payment. Liars they just didnt want it. It doesnt say they issued the default. I'm goting to check the other agencies.

 

Link will have 'taken over' the default when they purcased the debt I think, hence it may not show as GE putting it on originally

The Default Notice was attached after the Oct Statement but has no date on it as in the previous post. Then there is a sheet stating Notice of Sums in Arrears.

 

The so called default notice dated 17/10/08 shows a default for £0.01. One penny?! - do they mean they defaulted you for 1p in arrears?!! It's also shown as a late payment fee so I would think could be challenged in any case but it really needs a more comprehensive paper trail to determine what was owing & when.

FG

[diamondgirl]

I have no other papers unless there is something on the statements may be from August that perhaps I need to be looking at. Any ideas:idea:

I know time is running out for me to get the AQ filled out and my defence prepared to send back to the courts.

[foolishgirl]

I know time is running out for me to get the AQ filled out and my defence prepared to send back to the courts.

 

What date does it have to be in by?

 

Which questions are you stuck on?

 

The original court papers was dated 9.2.09, I sent them back stating I did not agree the amount and that the debt was with the GE Money - by the way its a credit card debt dont think I have mentioned that.

 

 

Did you dispute the whole amount? Exactly what did you write on the form?

[diamondgirl]

Has to be in by 30th March

Dont understand most of it

Disputed some of the amount.

Stated that my agreement was with GE Money.

Any suggestions as to how to do a good statement of defence.

The question I'm most stuck on is 'A' my contacting Link with I & E and there refusal to discuss does that count as having tried so my answer would be No

Should I go for a fast track? I know the about is over £5000 but it shouldn't take long to sort it - hopefully

Question 'F' List of directions does that mean my responses to their letters and theirs back?

 

Their particulars of claim on the court docs state ' Claimant claims the whole of the outstanding balance due and payable under an agreement and/or associated agreements made with the Defendant in writing and dated 20.09.06 and asigned to the Claimant'. I have not received from the plonkers any copy agreement dated 20.09.06 (this is when the store card was changed to a credit card) Have a got an arguement there!

 

I have just been to see my Niece and my two day old godchild. Thats cheered me up no end and after all today is

Mothers Day so I intend to have a good time and forget my problems for a few hours.

 

Do I need to do a Statement of Defence to send with this form back to the local court (incidentally this still has not be transferred from another court which is further away.)

Edited March 22, 2009 by diamondgirl
Additional information

[diamondgirl]

Please help me

Should I also be asking the plonkers to provide me with a copy of the so called agreement that was made in writing dated 20.9.06 I don't remember this or do I have to wait for GE Money to send the documents, obviously they're not going to be here in time for me to send them with the AQ with it having to be sent to the court by Monday? I have seen so many differing defence letters sent to the courts I don't know which is the best and should this be sent with AQ??

[foolishgirl]

Think you're getting confused with the format of proceedings DG.

 

You should have entered a 'defence' with the acknowledgment of claim you sent in.

 

What did you put on the AOC?

 

1. Did you tick the box 'I intend to defend part of the claim' or another box?

 

2. If the above, what did you put on the back of the AOC? It would have been headed 'Defence & Counterclaim' How much of the claim did you admit? And what did you write in 'Box 3 Defence' as to your defence for not paying all of it? i.e. why did you think you only owed some of the debt?

 

The only thing you can now put in with the AQ (apart from filling the boxes in correctly) is to ask for Draft Directions re. getting the docs etc. that you need from Link. Unless you know what you put on the AOC & exactly why you admitted part of the claim, it's therefore difficult to help you. You can't now say 'I don't owe any of it/any more because there is no CCA' although this may be a good argument for obtaining a settlement.

 

BTW the case will almost certainly be fast track if it is over £5000 & you will be liable for the costs of the other side if you lose so you need to get your act together.

[diamondgirl]

Probably done everything wrong

1. I admitted to some of the amount worked out that payments had not

been deducted which had been made to GE Money - Link should get

it from them

2. Dispute claim because you have already paid it - ticked no

3. Defence said I admit xxxx my agreement being with GE Money to whom

payments have been being made on by behalf by CCCS

Said only received few letters from Link, never been able to speak

to anyone there

Stated I could only afford to pay xxxx which is what the payment is

to GE Money

Enclosed I&E form from CCCS along with current statement of creditors.

The only things that Link have provided me with are the ones which I posted earlier. I do not have a copy of the so called written agreement dated October 06 from them. The statements that Link sent I have not seen any of the ones from April 08 onward when I sent GE details of the DMP.

I have nothing I can refer to from GE Money.

Knowing my luck I'm going to get clobbered.

I think all Link are after doing is applying for a charging order on the property. (only mad because there's not a depressed one.)

[Toulose LeDebt]

Please help me

Should I also be asking the plonkers to provide me with a copy of the so called agreement that was made in writing dated 20.9.06 I don't remember this or do I have to wait for GE Money to send the documents, obviously they're not going to be here in time for me to send them with the AQ with it having to be sent to the court by Monday? I have seen so many differing defence letters sent to the courts I don't know which is the best and should this be sent with AQ??

 

 

Just had a quick read through your thread DG I think you have several lines of defence open to you. I think what you need to be looking at is stating that you are unable to plead effectively since certain documentation on which the claimant is relying has not been disclosed to you. CPR covers all this and it should be fairly simple to write a 'holding' defence. I don't have much time right now but here are some obvious points.

 

1) Definitely request a copy of the agreement dated 20/09/06.

It sounds extremely like it will not be found. CPR states this document must be available in Court you also have a right to disclosure under CPR 31.14 anyway.

 

2) Definitely request a copy of the actual 'Deed of Assignment'.

The letter you have is a notice not the actual deed.

 

I can practically guarantee you that it does not exist. There might be a debt sale agreement or similar but there will NOT be an assignment deed valid as per Sec 136 Law of Property Act 1925. No deed = no title. You have to request this by putting Link to strict proof of title to this account.

If Link do not hold lawful title to this account they cannot enter litigation as either claimant or defendant in their own right. The action should have been started by Link/GE as co-claimants, the law is very clear.

 

3) The default notice is not in the format prescribed and thus in breach of the CCA 1974, put Link to strict proof

 

4) I wouldn't mention any documentation supplied directly from the OC if it arrives, let Link do all the proving. I suspect they will not be able to.

[Toulose LeDebt]

Having just read your latest post I cannot re-iterate enough how important it is to get Link put to strict proof of title to this account (see 2 in my previous post).

 

Hopefully somebody who has kept abreast of your thread can pitch in because as I say I've only read it once so need to re-re and re-read it to get acquainted. I would not send off anything which admits to any part of the debt as Link have not proven the debt exists or that they are entitled to collect upon it.

[diamondgirl]

Hi Toulose LeDebt

Thanks for that so I should attached a letter with the AQ stating roughly the above. Should I also send a letter to Link stating this. Is there anything that I can put like Data Protection - passing information about be without my permission! I'll have to sit and work some form of letter to send to the court tomorrow hopefully when my brain is more active - thats a laugh at least. Should the letter be in a particular format? All help is greatly appreciated as time is running out for me:o

[Toulose LeDebt]

DONT SEND ANYTHING YET!!!!!!!!

 

 

Have to nip out for an hour, is there any chance you could upload a copy of Links POC so we can see exactly what we're defending? If docs are mentioned in POC you have rights under CPR that they be disclosed/inspected. I suspect this is where Link will fall flat on their faces.

[diamondgirl]

DONT SEND ANYTHING YET!!!!!!!!

 

 

Have to nip out for an hour, is there any chance you could upload a copy of Links POC so we can see exactly what we're defending? If docs are mentioned in POC you have rights under CPR that they be disclosed/inspected. I suspect this is where Link will fall flat on their faces.

 

Sorry scanner broken got my digi camera POC are

"The claimant claims the whole of the outstanding balance due to payable under an agreement and/or associated agreements made with defendant in writing and dated 20.09.06 and assigned to the claimant. The defendant has failed to make payment as required by the agreement and to comply with a default ntoice or notices served by the claimant and/or assignor.

and the claimant claims:

1. £xxxxxxxxxx

2. Interest pursuant to section 69 county court act (1984) at a rate of 8.000% per annum from 27.11.08 to 06.02.09 of £105.58 and thereafter at a daily rate of £1.520 to date of judgement or sooner payment."

 

Hope that helps

[foolishgirl]

Unfortunately TLD, I think the debt has already been admitted.

 

Could DA base her whole defence on the matter of legal assignment do you think? She has sent off the CPR requests for the NOA & default notices but only recently, so no joy yet.

 

 

1. I admitted to some of the amount worked out that payments had not

been deducted which had been made to GE Money - Link should get

it from them

2. Dispute claim because you have already paid it - ticked no

3. Defence said I admit xxxx my agreement being with GE Money to whom

payments have been being made on by behalf by CCCS

Said only received few letters from Link, never been able to speak

to anyone there

Stated I could only afford to pay xxxx which is what the payment is

to GE Money

Enclosed I&E form from CCCS along with current statement of creditors.

The only things that Link have provided me with are the ones which I posted earlier. I do not have a copy of the so called written agreement dated October 06 from them. The statements that Link sent I have not seen any of the ones from April 08 onward when I sent GE details of the DMP.

I have nothing I can refer to from GE Money.

 

Wait for Toulouse's input DA. Don't complete your form just yet.

[diamondgirl]

Cheers fg:)

[Toulose LeDebt]

Unfortunately TLD, I think the debt has already been admitted.

 

Could DA base her whole defence on the matter of legal assignment do you think? She has sent off the CPR requests for the NOA & default notices but only recently, so no joy yet.

 

 

 

 

Wait for Toulouse's input DA. Don't complete your form just yet.

 

Yep just saw that the debt has been admitted when re-reading the thread. Unfortunate but by no means the end of the matter for the defence.

 

The CPR request needs/needed to be for the following items mentioned in the POC:

 

Copy of the 'Agreement of 20/09/06'. (1)

 

Copy of default notices issued by 'Assignor' and Claimant. (2)

 

Statements of account showing how amount claimed was reached.

 

and

 

Copy of the deed of assignment to prove title. (You must be explicit that it is a copy of the DEED not NOTICE that is requested). (3)

 

A pound to a penny says the assignment is equitable not absolute but more on that later.

 

(1) If a valid signed executed agreement dated 20/09/06 cannot be produced then the claim cannot be enforced by the Court.

 

(2) Sometimes considered more of a technicality but legislation exists which requires such notices to be served, failure to comply can be important.

 

(3) If no deed of assignment exists then Link CANNOT claim this debt against you in Court in their own name.

[diamondgirl]

Hi TLD

 

So does this mean I need to write to Link or do I write this in some kind of defence to send with the AQ. I know I'm asking a lot of you guys but I really haven't a clue what to do.

Thanks

DG:(

[foolishgirl]

First of all DG, did you ask for ALL these in the CPR request you sent?

 

 

Copy of the 'Agreement of 20/09/06'. (1)

 

Copy of default notices issued by 'Assignor' and Claimant. (2)

 

Statements of account showing how amount claimed was reached.

 

and

 

Copy of the deed of assignment to prove title. (You must be explicit that it is a copy of the DEED not NOTICE that is requested). (3)

 

 

 

If you did, fine. If not put a note in the post today to Link specifically requesting the above info. as: (amend with dates etc.)

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

On xxxxx I sent you a request under CPR 31.14 for disclosure of certain documents to substantiate your claim.

 

To date I have not received those documents.

 

Please note that I also require the following as referred to in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1. Copy of the 'Agreement of 20/09/06'.

 

2. Copy of default notices issued by 'Assignor' and Claimant.

 

3. Statements of account showing how amount claimed was reached.

 

4. Copy of the deed of assignment to prove title. This must be a copy of the DEED of Assignment, not just the notice of assignment.

You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

Don't worry about the AQ at the moment. You can ask for draft directions to include obtaining the above info. and/or production of the originals in court. I will post back with some ideas for you later.

Edited March 24, 2009 by foolishgirl
clarification

[diamondgirl]

You guys are brilliant.

Thanks I don't think I would have known what to do without you.

Pity I didn't know about the forum before I sent the papers back to Northampton in the beginning. We learn everyday.

Again that for the help so far.

DG:)