Barclaycard Response To My CCA Request!

[sunflower99]

Hi folks

I just sent the astounded letter to scotcall and als oenclosed a copy of the letter sent BC saying their reponse to my CCA request is bogpapaper:Di

[sunflower99]

presumably scottcall will inform Mercers and that will drive the point home to Barclaycard/Mercers that they have not sent a acceptable response to my cca request!

[sunflower99]

Account Number

Account In Dispute

Re; Barclaycards recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I am writing to say that i made a request to Barclycard on ---2009 under section 77-9 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a true copy of my agreement

I note that they have replied to the above by sending their companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that the company is still in default under the act..I wrote to Barclaycard on ----2009 informing them of this.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me by telephone over the past few weeks/months and these have been duly logged by time and date.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a "doorstep call", please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384

. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

Yours Faithfully

[sunflower99]

I am just going to send the above to Mercers,Still no word from Barclaycard about second letter i sent them 1234 Pavillion way stating what they sent me not acceptable,I had a scottcall man call round to our home a couple of weeks ago:eek: and yesterday i got a post card from Mercers saying they going to send someone else round in a few weeks time! So i have incorporated the no visiters letter in the letter informing Mercers i consider account in dispute as Barclaycard still not responded to my request for a true copy any original alleged agreement they claim they have!

Edited May 2, 2009 by sunflower99

[Gazza112]

Hi Sunflower

 

Sorry to hear that Mercers are giving you Grief:eek:.

I found them very nice till they wanted to some money of me.

I think they got the impression i was loaded and could ask.

Good luck with the letters, i'll be sending my letter of to Moorcrofts today.

 

Gaz

[sunflower99]

Hi Sunflower

 

Sorry to hear that Mercers are giving you Grief:eek:.

I found them very nice till they wanted to some money of me.

I think they got the impression i was loaded and could ask.

Good luck with the letters, i'll be sending my letter of to Moorcrofts today.

 

Gaz

Hi Gaz!

Welcome to my Barclayshark thread!:DI think scotcall given up on now so it looks like Mercers going to send someone else now! They have given me a exact date which will be in a couple of weeks time!I am thinking of handing out a copy of Nurse-Elsa swine flu poster about DCAs:Dalong with a no visiters letter when they turn up,I was thinking of displaying her poster on my front door on day the mercers man is going to call! but it might scare away our postman:eek:

[sunflower99]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/196867-new-notice-your-front.html Anyone want a laugh should visit this link about Nurse-Elsa DCA swine flu poster! A great thing to post on your front door if you expecting a visit from a DCA! Especially a Barclayshark Mercers or Scotcall one!As i will say this about Barclayshark/Mercer/Scottcall! They do often actualy do what they say they will do when it comes to threatening to send out doorstep collecters and do actually send a real human round!I have never been so popular with all these hunky men banging on my front door demanding to speak to me!

[PTK]

Hi, I'm new to this thread, but in the same situation, wrote to BC 9th Dec 08 requesting copy agreement, request ignored, wrote again 4th Feb 09 since then got identical letters TC's n stuff. I had a barclays bank account so they decided to take my payments direct. I closed the account and they are now ringing and texting, I just don't answer. I was going to send the CPR letter but have decided to send the letter from "Debt4gets" instead as I am at the min only just starting my fight.

[Potless1]

i recieved exactly the same lot of unsigned bog paper from b/card together with this letter:

 

[darkhorse53]

I've done and been through all this with BC, they just ignore everything, it's like it all disappears into a big hole. I even rang them and they say they do not respond to letters!!!!!

They've passed it on to Mercers who have passed it on to Scotcall who specialise in doorstep calls. There are some good templates to counter this behaviour in the template section. THey should receive them on Wednesday. Hopefully it will stop any unwelcome callers.

I've sent the dispute on to Financial Ombudsman, I'm hoping they think I've tried to be reasonable as I offered reduced payments because of hardship and they ignored this offer too.I'm also hoping that because I've sent a copy of the Fin Ombud acknowledgement that they will hold off until there is a remedy on the table. Sometimes I feel like I must be writing in a foreign language.

Is there anyone out there who has managed to cut through this non-communication barrier they have erected?

[sunflower99]

Hi all!

Yes Barclaysahrk are not a very reasonable bank! They seem to ignore everything yo write! They have competly ignored the second letter i sent them saying what they have sent me is bog paper!

[slick132]

Hi to PTK (and welcome to CAG), to KTHMurrell and to Darkhorse.

 

If you don't yet have a BC thread, please start one and ask any questions you have, on your own thread.

 

This will avoid hijacking, thanks.

[sunflower99]

I've done and been through all this with BC, they just ignore everything, it's like it all disappears into a big hole. I even rang them and they say they do not respond to letters!!!!!

They've passed it on to Mercers who have passed it on to Scotcall who specialise in doorstep calls. There are some good templates to counter this behaviour in the template section. THey should receive them on Wednesday. Hopefully it will stop any unwelcome callers.

I've sent the dispute on to Financial Ombudsman, I'm hoping they think I've tried to be reasonable as I offered reduced payments because of hardship and they ignored this offer too.I'm also hoping that because I've sent a copy of the Fin Ombud acknowledgement that they will hold off until there is a remedy on the table. Sometimes I feel like I must be writing in a foreign language.

Is there anyone out there who has managed to cut through this non-communication barrier they have erected?

Yes scotcall do actually send real people! We just ignored him though when he started banging on our door! Though our dog nearly gave the game away when my OH was peering through net curtains to get a peep at him! LOLOur dog has got a habbit of jumping on the window sill nudging his nose round the net curtain and barking loudly! He did this when the scotcall man was banging on door!and started wagging his tail so his tail banged against our window making a knocking noise.I was terrified the scottcall man would think i was banging on window to attract his attention! My hubby kept hissing at our dog get down get down and i was so worried that the blokes face would come looming up at our window! Luckily he dident but started banging on our back gate instead!Afterwards he went out to his car and sat outside our house for about 10 minutes before driving away.somebody on forum said that if he had come to our window i should have called the police and told them i had a peeping tom in my garden! LOL! Afterwards though we could see the funny side of it and it was like something out of a comedy film!

[PTK]

To KTHmurrell yup got that one, amongst others the best was from the legal team saying they'd completed their obligation under sec 78 - I don't think so. I have also sent a complaint to the FOS who are persuing it for me. I felt that having someone with more power might make them do something as I am getting nowhere. I really hope they send a doorstep caller, I live on a narrowboat, so they've got to find me first. My address is a postal address only so that could be fun ! !

[sunflower99]

Account Number

Account In Dispute

Re; Barclaycards recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I am writing to say that i made a request to Barclycard on ---2009 under section 77-9 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a true copy of my agreement

I note that they have replied to the above by sending their companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that the company is still in default under the act..I wrote to Barclaycard on ----2009 informing them of this.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me by telephone over the past few weeks/months and these have been duly logged by time and date.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a "doorstep call", please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384

. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

Yours Faithfully

Oh well!it looks like Mercers can not read! LOL:rolleyes: In spite of sending them above letter quite a while saying no doorstep viisters and saying what BC has sent in response to my CCA request! They just sent me another letter a few days ago saying they are going to send me another doorstep collecter! I wonder what firm they will set on me next as i think Scottcall given up!

[Gazza112]

Oh well!it looks like Mercers can not read! LOL:rolleyes: In spite of sending them above letter quite a while saying no doorstep viisters and saying what BC has sent in response to my CCA request! They just sent me another letter a few days ago saying they are going to send me another doorstep collecter! I wonder what firm they will set on me next as i think Scottcall given up!

 

 

Hi Sunflower

 

 

Well, you must be one of the few to have another doorstep caller wanting to visit you .

 

Gaz

[tosh1]

you should be able to report them to the office of fair trading.

[sunflower99]

Oh well!it looks like Mercers can not read! LOL:rolleyes: In spite of sending them above letter quite a while saying no doorstep viisters and saying what BC has sent in response to my CCA request! They just sent me another letter a few days ago saying they are going to send me another doorstep collecter! I wonder what firm they will set on me next as i think Scottcall given up!

 

 

Hi Sunflower

 

 

Well, you must be one of the few to have another doorstep caller wanting to visit you .

 

Gaz

Hi Gaz

LOL ! Time to get the cakes out again! and to watch out for strange men lurking round in our garden!Perhaps i will ring the police and tell them i got a peeping tom!

[sunflower99]

you should be able to report them to the office of fair trading.

Yes they deserve to be reported

[sunflower99]

Hi Gaz do you think i should try and log a complaint about Mercers keep sending me these doorstep caller letter on that information commisoner website link? the one that AA99 used and recommended ? do you think they deal with theese sort of cases as well as harrasing phonecalls?

[sunflower99]

Hi Tosh and Gaz!

These threats of doorstep caller getting beyond a joke!

[Gazza112]

Hi Gaz do you think i should try and log a complaint about Mercers keep sending me these doorstep caller letter on that information commisoner website link? the one that AA99 used and recommended ? do you think they deal with theese sort of cases as well as harrasing phonecalls?

 

 

Hi Sunflower

 

 

Well, reporting them to the information commisoner can't do any harm.

I'm dealing with Barclay's at the moment on my documents.

 

Gaz

[slick132]

Hi Sunflower,

 

A complaint to the ICO may be inappropriate unless your complaint is that BC have failed to produce the Agreement in response to a SAR.

 

However, I think you should now Complain to the FOS about BC's failure to respond properly to your CCA request. A case was reported here yesterday where the FOS ordered BC to produce the agreement..........and apparently they did !!

 

See here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/201069-barclaycard-bradley68.html#post2187860

 

I think the complaint should focus on BC's failure to supply the agreement which you suggest puts the a/c clearly in dispute. Despite this Mercer's continue to press for payment.

 

Keep the complaint brief and enclose a schedule setting out the sequence of events with all dates.

Edited May 25, 2009 by slick132
confused myself

[angel_1]

hiya slick and sunflower

 

did you mean to write FOS instead of the info comm office - who it was the FOS who ordered barclaycard to provide the cca not the ICO?

 

i can see it was late last night,,,, only highlighting to ensure accuracy for sunflower and for the rest of us:cool:

 

and thanks for the links which you Slick you put on my bcard thread

 

i think this will be another angle i will follow

 

laters angel x

[sunflower99]

Hi Slick

Thanks for advice about complaining to fos when i take it further