Help Can I Be Imprisoned For Non Payment Of Council Tax

[soslasthope]

Hi

 

I have to day had a visit from a bailiff looking to collect my outstanding property tax. I answered the door but then when he told me he was a Bailiff I shut it quick he then kept knocking I refused to answer the door so he left a letter in my letter box.

 

I had not been informed by the council that a LIABILITY ORDER HAD BEEN GRANTED nor was I informed that they had passed this matter on to Bailiffs although in this case the Bailiff is the council as on the letter left by the Bailiff it is council headed note paper. I am on incap benefit and have been for the past 13 months long story but still have not been granted excemption from paying reduced rate. The letter left by the Bailiff does not list the charges that they have added to the outstanding figure so they have not made it clear what is outstanding council tax and what figure is bailiff charges. The letter says that if I do not pay within 24hrs then they may enter my property while I am out and remove googs without my permmision. they go on to say that should payment not be made in full or insufficent goods can not be obtained by them they will commence proceeding for the issue of summons to commit me to prison. At present I am under my doctor for depression and have been quite ill hence on incap benefit. I am alreading having money taken from my benefit for over payment of rent am I correct in saying that due to this they should not have been able to issue a nother Liability order? (Re reg 52 The Council Tax (administration and Enforcement Act)

 

I am not refusing to pay but I can not afford to pay over a 1,000.00 to them I have asked if I can installments reply NO to late

 

PLease help I am so worried about this being ill and having all these worries makes me feel that I do not want to carry on

as life is becoming more and more stressfull by the day

 

Thanks

[p4ul]

First off they cannot force entry unless you have let them in before. They also cannot get a summons to commit you to prison.

The only people that can commit you to prison are the magistrates and they will summon you before them before deciding what to do with you.

 

You cannot go to prison without going up before the magistrates first, the most the bailiffs can do is get an arrest warrant.

 

I'm sure someone on here can tell you where to complain as that letter is full of false information

 

Bottom line is nobody can get sent to prison for ANY offence without first going in front of a court to plead there case.

[flyingdoc]

Bottom line is nobody can get sent to prison for ANY offence without first going in front of a court to plead there case.

 

There is a lot of anti terror legislation that disagrees with you.

and a large number of people in guantanamo bay (some from the UK) who would also be rather sceptical of that view.

 

However I would agree that (as yet) council tax has not made it onto the list of terror offences that you can be summarily imprisoned for (although I doubt it will be too long ....)

[soslasthope]

THANKS FOR THE PROMPT REPLY I can not sleep so worried what is warrant for arrest?

 

I DID ANSWER THE DOOR BUT DID NOT LET HIM IN SLAMMED DOOR STRAIGHT AWAY

[p4ul]

A warrant for arrest is what the magistrates will issue if you refuse to pay any magistrates fines/council tax.

Basically the bailiff will go back to the court, tell them they couldn't get payment from you, and the court will either summon you for a means hearing or issue an arrest warrant for you to be arrested and brought before the court.

 

Are you sure it was a bailiff that came to your house? A bailiff is a private company and would not be using council headed note paper.

This could of been a council debt collector. You need to phone the council and see what is going on. If its not been passed to the bailiffs then you have a chance to agree a repayment plan with the council.

 

You need to sort this urgently because once its passed to the bailiff its highly unlikely that they will let you arrange a repayment plan.

 

The council will not help you once its in the hands of the bailiffs, phone them and see if it has been passed on

[soslasthope]

Hi still can't sleep

YES it is written on headed paper from the council the same council that issues the Council Tax bills signed by a name BAILIFF(in cap) then a mobile number is quoted.

 

Thats the welsh for you saving money I bet

 

It even gives an email address revenues@blah blah.gov.uk

 

REALLY GRATEFUL TO YOU FOR YOUR HELP

 

Spoke to the Council yesterday and they would not except installments also the council here are very firm not very helpful

 

Ha just thought how can they charge me bailiff fees if they are using thereselves as a company to collect maybe they employ a bailiff maybe I should ask this if his a registered Bailiff

Edited February 25, 2009 by soslasthope

[soslasthope]

do the bailiffs have to give you written notice if they put a levy on you car as when the Baliliff came my car was parked at the side of the house

 

Thanks

[chris600uk]

I am alreading having money taken from my benefit for over payment of rent am I correct in saying that due to this they should not have been able to issue a nother Liability order? (Re reg 52 The Council Tax (administration and Enforcement Act)[/i]

 

Then the bailiffs should not be involved, and the council should be taking money from your benefit for this one as well.

 

They are entitled to get liability orders.

 

Contact the bailiffs in writing tell them you are on benefits and have a payment arrangement with the council already.

 

Send a copy to the council.

[Fair-Parking]

This country's last debtor's prison was closed in 1869. We do not send people to prison purely for debt.

 

It is possible for a council to ask a magistrate to imprison a person for a refusal to pay council tax, which you are not doing, or something called 'willful negligence' whatever that is supposed to mean. Short of holidaying in the West Indies instead of paying council tax, that too is a non starter. Thus you cannot be sent to prison in your current circumstances.

 

Only the council and not the bailiffs can make an application to the court and should they choose do so, you will have every opportunity to state your case directly to the magistrates.

 

Secondly the idea that anybody can come to your house and force an entry is non starter. It's illegal unless a judge has signed an order to that effect.

 

Thirdly, the idea that anybody can come to your house and force entry whilst you are not there even with a walking possession agreement is also a non starter. That was ruled under Khazanchi v Faircharm Investments 1996.

 

Go to the council and work out a deal with them. Do not speak to the bailiffs.

 

With due deference to the thread that wondered if bailiffs read our every word, I most certainly hope so in this case

[soslasthope]

JUST TO INFORM PEOPLE COUNCIL TAX ARREARS CAN NOT BE TAKEN OUT OF BENEFITS WELL NOT INCAPACITY AWAY ONLY OVER PAYMENTS OF HOUSING BENIFITS OR ANY OTHER PAYMENTS TO THESE GOVERMENT BODIES.

 

THIS I WAS TOLD DIRECT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH SO TO SPEAK THE REASON THEY DO NOT THIS IS SO PEOPLE ARE NOT PUT INTO HARDSHIP SITUATIONS ++++CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT++++ What a JOKE

[Rachie1973]

I believe ya!

 

Me and hubby lost business and house last year and went into B & B with 5 kids. Both got new jobs, but poorly paid.

 

Within 3 days council that had been helpful a week before were threatening us with prison if we did not pay up outstanding council tax.

 

My Dad is an ex copper. He calls non payment offenders 'weekenders' lol.

 

Most actually never serve a night in a real prison.

 

Anyways, it's not going to happen to you. I would welcome the chance to show a judge I was willing to pay, but my offers were consistantly refused.

[andynsue]

If it did go to court you would be entitled to have the duty solicitor speak for you. you can make an offer of payments. If the amount is deemed unacceptable then dte magistrates would ask for a form to be filled in, ingoings and outgoings, etc, then agree to how much you can afford to pay. You WILL NOT go to prison.

[p4ul]

This is the reason the bailiffs dont want to have to get a aresst warrent.

if you go back before the court (which the bailiffs dont want) then you will be paying the original fine and not the amount with bailiff fees on top.

 

This is the reason the bailiffs use as many threats as they can and would rather take your goods than send you back to court. If it goes back to court then he doesnt get payed by you

[soslasthope]

Thanks for all your advise Its not that I do not want to pay its that can not pay the amount in full

 

Started this morning positive since I am known as a WEEKENDER by the police force read prev replies I am confused can they arrest me or not

[p4ul]

The only way they can arrest you is with an arrest warrant. They haven't got one so no you cant be arrested.

 

I have no idea what a weekender is

[flyingdoc]

The only people that tend to get arrested for non payment of council tax are those who are making protests and REFUSING to pay.

 

If you CANNOT pay and are seen as making some reasonable effort, I would be very surprised if they even considered it as an option.

 

I dont know where you are but here is one councils thoughts on the reasons for going to prision for non payment

 

Committal to prison: in some cases where there is deliberate refusal or culpable neglect, the magistrates have the authority to commit you to prison for a maximum of 90 days for non-payment.

 

I would also suspect that they are sailing very close to a breach of s40 of the administration of justice act in threatening you with something that they know is so unlikely as to be almost impossible for non payment for the reasons you have not paid.

 

it is sabre rattling - dont let them get to you.

[Rachie1973]

The only way they can arrest you is with an arrest warrant. They haven't got one so no you cant be arrested.

 

I have no idea what a weekender is

 

lol a weekender.

 

Usually the time spent in Jail because of non payment of these things.

 

And of course again, only used for those wilfully refusing (ie: protesting people etc making a stand about council tax). Not for those in financial hardship.

[soslasthope]

JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THE COUNCIL IS DENBIGHSHIRE AND A PREV HELPFUL PERSON WHO SAID HER FATHER OR FATHER INLAW AN EX POLICE MAN SAID NON PAYER OF DEBTS THEY NICK NAME ==== weekenders===

 

You learn some new every day Thanks a million for your help its been a live saver to me

[soslasthope]

Thats Great Thanks For Letting Me Know Why They Are Called Weekenders

[tomtubby]

I am tearing my hair out reading this !!

 

Bailiffs are finding it very difficult to get payment due to the recession and from the many complaints our firm receive bailiffs are now having to resort to threats of imprisonment to get money from debtors. The truth is this:

 

YES YOU CAN BE SENT TO PRISON............BUT.......ONLY ON TWO GROUNDS.

 

The first is "wilful refusal" and we do have two clients who have been to prison under this. In both cases they wanted to go to prision as both do not recognise that council tax is a legal tax.

 

The second and only other ground is "culpable neglect". The best way to describe this is for instance if you have purchased a new car, just returned from a fortnight in Disneyland, purchased a 42" flat screen TV then it is "possible" that this would be sufficuent grounds for consideration being given for comittal proceedings to be considered. However, first the council would need to PROVE that you have used money for these purposes INSTEAD of paying tax and this would be very difficult.

 

In addition, a COURT and NOT a bailiff will have the decision on whether to issue commital proceedings !!

 

Finally, there were over 3 MILLION Liability Orders issued last year and I dread to think with the recession how many there will be this year. Can you imagine how many prison spaces would be needed if councils were going to be taking this route.

 

THE BAILIFF IS TRYING TO SCARE YOU..........AND IT HAS WORKED.

 

Please take NO NOTICE.

[soslasthope]

Thankyou so very much Tomtubby for putting my mind at rest XX

[Oh Boy!]

Thank you TOMTUBBY

 

Some of the early posters scared the poor girl..tut tut.

 

In addition to Toms advice, please also note that Bailiffs dont just turn up with a warrant of arrest, thats utter rubbish, firstly you will be summoned to appear before a court to answer to those charges of non payment, you will be given time to consult lawyers etc,if you fail to show THEN And ONLY then there will be a Warrant of Arrest issued, these are of course to force you into court.

 

And so....fear not you are not going to prison....DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM GHASTLY PRIVATE BAILIFFS:-x

 

Someone close to me is in the same boat as you with these problems including the benefits side of things same claim etc, the advice i have given that person is no different to yours, so far all is well.

[soslasthope]

Thank you TOMTUBBY

 

Some of the early posters scared the poor girl..tut tut.

 

In addition to Toms advice, please also note that Bailiffs dont just turn up with a warrant of arrest, thats utter rubbish, firstly you will be summoned to appear before a court to answer to those charges of non payment, you will be given time to consult lawyers etc,if you fail to show THEN And ONLY then there will be a Warrant of Arrest issued, these are of course to force you into court.

 

And so....fear not you are not going to prison....DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM GHASTLY PRIVATE BAILIFFS:-x

 

Someone close to me is in the same boat as you with these problems including the benefits side of things same claim etc, the advice i have given that person is no different to yours, so far all is well.

Thanks O Boy I can now stop worrying and go to bed u are up late X

[soslasthope]

I am tearing my hair out reading this !!

 

Bailiffs are finding it very difficult to get payment due to the recession and from the many complaints our firm receive bailiffs are now having to resort to threats of imprisonment to get money from debtors. The truth is this:

 

YES YOU CAN BE SENT TO PRISON............BUT.......ONLY ON TWO GROUNDS.

 

The first is "wilful refusal" and we do have two clients who have been to prison under this. In both cases they wanted to go to prision as both do not recognise that council tax is a legal tax.

 

The second and only other ground is "culpable neglect". The best way to describe this is for instance if you have purchased a new car, just returned from a fortnight in Disneyland, purchased a 42" flat screen TV then it is "possible" that this would be sufficuent grounds for consideration being given for comittal proceedings to be considered. However, first the council would need to PROVE that you have used money for these purposes INSTEAD of paying tax and this would be very difficult.

 

In addition, a COURT and NOT a bailiff will have the decision on whether to issue commital proceedings !!

 

Finally, there were over 3 MILLION Liability Orders issued last year and I dread to think with the recession how many there will be this year. Can you imagine how many prison spaces would be needed if councils were going to be taking this route.

 

THE BAILIFF IS TRYING TO SCARE YOU..........AND IT HAS WORKED.

 

Please take NO NOTICE.

Can not thank you enough Tomtubby for your advice X

[soslasthope]

This is an update,,,,

 

I wrote a letter to the Chief Exec of the Council with a formal complaint as I should never of had this outstanding Council tax bill in the first place gave them 14 days to reply 3 days to go.

 

However I had another visit from the BAILIFF this am did not let them in I do not answer the door to any one since this first happened. The Bailiff put a letter through my door as follows:-

 

PLEASE NB: On Council headed paper so Bailiffs are based within the Council Offices.

 

REMOVAL/COMMITTAL TO PRISON PENDING

 

TAKE NOTICE- You have failed to respond to previous communications You must now contact me within 24 hours to arrange payment in full.

 

If you do not contact me I will re-attend your property with a vehicle,porter and locksmith (if appropriate) with a view to gaining entery and removing goods/assets to clear the debt. If I am unable to obtain sufficient goods or payment I will commence proceeding for the issue of a summons to commit you to prison for non-payment.

 

The Council will also consider alternative action against you including:-

 

Instigate Bankruptcy/Liquidation proceeding though the County Court(this may affect your credit rating)

 

Apply for a charging Order on your Home (security for unpaid rates on a business)

 

PLEASE CONTACT ME WITHOUT DELAY

 

Please note that payments made by cheque are not acceptable

 

1; I did send the baliaffs department a letter sayinh that I was on Incap Benefit prior on Job seekers allowance,

 

2: I made it very claer that I was not refusing to pay but did not have the money to pay

 

3: I rent the property I live in it does not belong to me they already know that

 

4: I have the use of a car but it is not owed by me or registered to me

 

5: As for my Credit Rating well I am sure I am already Black listed and would not get Credit

 

6: Unsecured Rates on a Business never had my own Business so what they are talking about is beyond me.

 

7: BANKCRUPY Considered this but can not afford to pay to become Bankcrupt I would wellcome it if they did.

 

8: I have written to the Chief Exec of the Council gave them 14 days to reply still got 3 days to run. I sent letter by Recorded Delivery.

 

 

I HOPE IT GOES BACK TO COURT AT LEAST I COULD PUT MY CASE FORWARD CAN I FORCE THIS TO HAPPEN DOES ANY BODY KNOW

 

Any Help and advise would be great last time TOMTUBBY put my mind at rest but I need this to end it is affecting my Health I am already on anti depressants.

Edited March 30, 2009 by soslasthope
Need to bump