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    • Afternoon all Looking for advice before I defend claim for car tax payment that the DVLA claim I owe £68 from an idemity claimback from my bank and unpaid tax  So brief outline. Purchased car Jan 30th ,garage paid the tax for me after I gave them my card details so first payment £68 out in Feb 24  followed by payment of £31 from March due to end Jan 24 Checked one of my vehicle apps and about 7-10 days later car showing as untaxed? No reason why but it looks like DVLA cancelled it ,this could be because I did not have the V5 and the gargae paid on my behalf but not sure did not receive a letter to say car was untaxed.  Fair enough I set up the tax again staight away in Feb 24  and first payment out Mar 31st , and each payment since has come out each month for £31 , this will end Feb/Mar 2025 so slightly longer than the original tax set up so all good. I then claimed the £68 back from my bank as an indemity refund as obviously I had paid but DVLA had cancelled therefore it was a payment for nothing?  Last week recieved a SJP form dated 29th May stating that DVLA were claiming for unpaid tax and a false indemity claimback which of course is the £68. It also stated that I had received two previous letters offering me the oppotunity to pay that £68 but as I had not responded it was now a court claim that I must admit guilt for or defend. My post is held for weeks at a time from Royal Mail ( keepsafe) due to me receiving hospital tretament at weeks at a time that said I did not receive any previous letters from DVLA. So I am happy to defend this and go to court but wondering what CAG members think? In summary I paid an initial amount of £68 and then a DD of £31 , tax cancelled so I set up a new DD at £31 a month all in the month of Feb 2024, I claimed the £68 back from my bank. DD has been coming out each month without issue and I have paperwork to show the breakdown for both DD setup's plus bank statements showing the payments coming out . The second DD set up has extended payments up to Feb/Mar 2025. DVLA claiming the £68 was ilegally claimed back despite the fact they cancelled the original DD for reasons unknown. Is this defendable ? I will post up documents including the original DD conformations 
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D/judge Made Wrong Decison What Now??


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Hi IGNM (It went off to Restos this lunchtime will del to the court by hand the same on Monday)

 

Heres attached is a copy of my defence from March the MCOL was slightly shorter tho due to the amount of words allowed but this full one did accompany the N150 AQ that had to be in with my Draft order for directions #115 /other info I included etc by the 11th May (when there docs in order I could defend myself still had not arrived to me at that time!!) The SJ application hearing applic notice arrived just after then co-incidentally :mad:

 

My POC is in posting #14 where they tried it on with S69 interest at that time too. This was mentioned in the defence which creditcardmug helped me with at the time.

 

 

  • tried to settle in Dec 08 with an offer to MBNA (this was copied to Restons on 5th Feb)

  • I am also with Payplan who they did not act reasonably in accepting my payments offered. Altho still paid them see my post#33. I even still kept paying them payments (up until last mth) when I told Payplan (at my review) no more as its up to a judge to decide now.

Here is a copy of the SJ http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/t...mJudgement.jpg This details a claim fee of £190 & fixed costs of £100

 

Re my witness statement in the end I took out that paragraph you told me too and I inserted in:-

 

at point 10 at the end of that sentence..... This shows that this document has been altered from the original Default Notice

 

20. With regards to MBNA3 these are not the T & C applicable to the original Application.

21. Withregards to MBNA 4 attached to the Application Notice the claimanthas alsoonly disclosed statements from 2004. My statutory rights therefore in my CPR 31.14 request (exhibit mdaw3) has not been complied with. A full and complete statement of account including all payments made and charges applied covering the period beginning with the day of the making of the agreement and ending on the date of the commencement of this case will be required.

I have requested a full portfolio of paperwork from MBNA (Subject Access Request letters (exhibit MDAW06 & MDAW07) - to date no paperwork has been provided

IGNM (6th June I requested this SAR as I have 2 accts with MBNA so thought I would slot this one in at the same time on a 2 for 1;))

I have not had any order directions ever from the court yet (at what stage will I be allowed the amended defence do I get told?)

Also next Monday in court am I allowed to take anybody in with me.

 

 

 

The problem is that the defence is going to be the one that you filed online not the other one

 

As far as amending is concerned - technically you need to make an application on an N244 but as you are a Litigant in Person the court may let you do it by applying to amend in your skeleton(That I will sort out tomorrow).

 

As far as the hearing next week is concerned it is in private however if you ask the court they will usually allow someone to go in with you.

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Great IGNM appreciated (would this be something I take into court on Monday when I drop the WS in or at what point do I send it?

 

You can drop it into court on Monday - although you'll need to send a copy to the other side at the same time

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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You can drop it into court on Monday - although you'll need to send a copy to the other side at the same time

The trouble is the other side wont be receiving it on the same day though will they...will this matter? After all they have the WS as stipulated

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No - the CPR says that you have to file evidence 7 days before the hearing - you've done that.

 

Skerleton arguments aren't evidence - neither is a draft amended defence.

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Great, will you be able to have a look then today at the amended defence now you have my copy. I have looked over your skeleton and happy to amend some sections with figures (from 2004 statements etc), also point 10 mine was a "priority request form" etc...lots of other things etc will you again run your eye over it to see what can be kept & taken out in relation to my case.

I will drop it off to court tomorrow with my WS then post a copy to the other side for Tues - thanks

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I'll sort it out today - do you want to amend my skeleton and then post it for me to go through and remove anything that doesn't need to be there and I'll sort out the amended defence

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Ok here goes the skeleton IGNM. In relation to some unsurety on my part could you delete as you see fit whats needed to be kept in or not?

 

My queries in relation to this skeleton are:-

 

Do I have to print off these extracts from websites where point 14 - 19 inclusive and 38, 39, 41,48 refer to & inc these to the court?

 

What do I put in point 35 at the first bit where its got the XXXX?

 

Point 42 & 43 (interest got frozen when I went into Payplan) also is 44,45,46,50 & 51 applicable.

 

Point 47 which statement should I be using for APR would it be the last one they printed off & sent me?

 

Hope I am not putting you to too much work....thanks again

MDAW Skeleton.rtf

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Ok here goes the skeleton IGNM. In relation to some unsurety on my part could you delete as you see fit whats needed to be kept in or not?

 

My queries in relation to this skeleton are:-

 

Do I have to print off these extracts from websites where point 14 - 19 inclusive and 38, 39, 41,48 refer to & inc these to the court?

 

What do I put in point 35 at the first bit where its got the XXXX?

 

Point 42 & 43 (interest got frozen when I went into Payplan) also is 44,45,46,50 & 51 applicable.

 

Point 47 which statement should I be using for APR would it be the last one they printed off & sent me?

 

Hope I am not putting you to too much work....thanks again

 

1. Anything in my skeleton that refers to an assignment needs to come out as you are being sued by MBNA and there has been no assignment

So paragraphs 7 and 8 need amending

2. Paragraph 2 needs to come out

3. Para 25 - I think you need to say that the 9th of January was a Friday

4. Point 34 - 39 needs to go - as its' about assignments

5. Para 40 - 46 depend on whether or not they have explained in full how the sum they have claimed has arisen and whether or not there are default charges imposed pre July 2006 - that is at the old rates - if they have explained how the sum claimed has arisen and if there are no default charges then the paragraphs need to come out

6. Paragraph 10 - does the wording on the priority application form refer to applications etc - I know that my form did but does yours...

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If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Two other points

1. Are there any account charges

2. Paras 53 - 56 - is fairly complex - you need to decide if you want to run a counterclaim or not - if I were you I probably wouldn't

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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I've knocked up an amended defence on the basis of what we know

 

There are a couple of sections that are underlined in black and in bold italics - they may or may not need to go in - depends on the facts of the case - whether or not there are account charges

MDW AmDefence.doc

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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1. Anything in my skeleton that refers to an assignment needs to come out as you are being sued by MBNA and there has been no assignment

So paragraphs 7 and 8 need amending Do these paras need coming out then or amending with something else?

2. Paragraph 2 needs to come out Done

3. Para 25 - I think you need to say that the 9th of January was a Friday Done

4. Point 34 - 39 needs to go - as its' about assignments Done

5. Para 40 - 46 depend on whether or not they have explained in full how the sum they have claimed has arisen and whether or not there are default charges imposed pre July 2006 - that is at the old rates - if they have explained how the sum claimed has arisen and if there are no default charges then the paragraphs need to come out I dont see any ref to this where would I see such info???

6. Paragraph 10 - does the wording on the priority application form refer to applications etc - I know that my form did but does yours...

This was the orig application http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/t...g?t=1242733254 & T & C http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/t...g?t=1242750486 I cannot see anything unless there was such a wording under that barcode section? When you look at paragraph 4 on here though they mention "is a copy of the orig c/card application form" and the words agreement????

 

I will go over the amended doc seperately....happy to keep have your input...

Edited by Mydogsawestie

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Re amended defence thanks - here goes what I have done, appreciate your advice again where needed.....

 

I have taken out the counterclaim bit in the header on this or shouldnt I as you mentioned in the skeleton bit to prob do it???

 

Re point 11 I changed the dates to expires on either the 30th Jan or the 3rd February here (for the 14 days thing) you ok with this?

 

Point 17 & 18 you underlined as with the skeleton bit above too on para 40-46?? I dont see any ref to this where would I see such info???

point 20 mentions counterclaim in it? and where it signs off the defendant repeats her defence does that mean all what I have said previous then will stand too in the valid points orig raised (ie faulty DN agreement no T & C etc, no full statements supplied as per my CPR request?)

 

I hope to hear from you soon again on both the above skeleton & amended defence querys. Hopefully I will then be at the final stages in all of this???? (dont know where I would have been without your help - thanks)

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I will go over the amended doc seperately....happy to keep have your input...

 

Skeleton

Para 7 - you simply take out the reference to assignment - so you delete The Defendant further asserts that the Benefit of the agreement was assigned to it by MBNA Europe Bank Limited.

Para 8 - you delete

Fourthly it must establish that there was an “absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor” (S136 (1) Law of Property Act 1925). Fifthly that proper notice of any such assignment was given to the Defendant (S136 (1) Law of Property Act 1925.

 

Para 40 - 46 - have you got any card statements - do you know whether there have been any late or overlimit fees - have they told you how they have worked out the sum that they are claiming...If you don't know then you'll have to take the stuff about default charges out - the same is true for the bit in the defence

 

Defence

I don't understand how you get the default notice date to the 30th Jan or the 3rd Feb.

 

The way the DN works is that the time for service does not include weekends BUT once served it does - so where the DN is posted on a Friday - it would be deemed delivered either on the following Tuesday or Thursday - it is then 14 days (including weekends) from the day after service...

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Skeleton

Para 7 - you simply take out the reference to assignment - so you delete The Defendant further asserts that the Benefit of the agreement was assigned to it by MBNA Europe Bank Limited. Done

Para 8 - you delete

Fourthly it must establish that there was an “absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor” (S136 (1) Law of Property Act 1925). Fifthly that proper notice of any such assignment was given to the Defendant (S136 (1) Law of Property Act 1925. Done

 

Para 40 - 46 - have you got any card statements - do you know whether there have been any late or overlimit fees - have they told you how they have worked out the sum that they are claiming...If you don't know then you'll have to take the stuff about default charges out - the same is true for the bit in the defence I have just gone through the statements supplied from 2004 to Dec 2008(remember I dont have any pre this to 2000) No late/overlimit fees seem to have been applied SHALL I TAKE 40-46 OUT THEN ALTOGETHER?

Defence

I don't understand how you get the default notice date to the 30th Jan or the 3rd Feb.

 

The way the DN works is that the time for service does not include weekends BUT once served it does - so where the DN is posted on a Friday - it would be deemed delivered either on the following Tuesday or Thursday - it is then 14 days (including weekends) from the day after service...I was under the impression it was 14 Working days in order I can seek advice & CAB etc are not open wkends in order to remedy it?

 

please advise??

Edited by Mydogsawestie

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please advise??

 

My understanding is that it is 14 days including weekends

 

As there don't appear to be any default charges just take out the stuff out in both the skeleton and the defence

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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My understanding is that it is 14 days including weekends

 

As there don't appear to be any default charges just take out the stuff out in both the skeleton and the defence

 

Calendar days it is then...my misunderstanding thankfully that was sorted just in the nick of time then eh! What dates in your opionion should I change it back to then....? (My WS to restons saturday will be wrong then at point 13 I put Clearly defined is the fact that the default notice does not comply with the requirements as specified in Regulation 2 of Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) 3© above; as the notice only gave 10 days for compliance not 14 days as required) OOPS

 

Also I understand now 40-46 in the skeleton is coming out altogether, and point 17-18 in the amended defence please confirm...

Lastly the bits on the counterclaim querys I mentioned what do you think re these...point 20 mentions counterclaim in it (I also took it off the Header section on the amended defence bit too. am I right to delete these words.

Also where it signs off "the defendant repeats her defence" does that mean all what I have said previous then will stand to I ask this as the orig defence contained all the valid case bits etc as to why all this was being defended. (ie reasons/caselaws on faulty DN agreement no T & C etc, no full statements supplied as per my CPR request?)

 

Excuse my ignorance its only because I wondered if I had to pad it out like the orig defence was....thanks

Edited by Mydogsawestie

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D/N - If it was posted Friday the 9th - First class Served Tuesday the 13th - the 14 days starts on the 14th ends the 27th - if second class it would be delivered on Thursday the 15 and take effect from the 16th and end on the 29th

 

Yes - 40-46 (skel) and the stuff in the defence that is highlighted in black bold and underlined comes out (that one line in para 8 and para 17 and 18 in full).

 

Counterclaim - you don't have to repeat physicall all of the defence what you do is simply use the phrase that I have. As you are counterclaiming for a declaration that it is unenforceable the phrase counterclaim needs to stay in the heading

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Thanks IGNM all getting there now....however will this Skeleton & Amended Defence be acceptable at this stage as I thought an amended defence had to be done via an N244 and the WS sent Saturday (being dropped off today at court) says whats been submitted by them was codswallop. My WS also mentioned the relevant reasonings why there evidence also showed no compelling reason why it should not go to trial either. FACT

 

With the WS finishing off with

In addition to the points raised I would ask for the court to allow me to amend my orig defence as at the time I submitted the defence I did not have in my possession a full compliment of the documents which the claimant has now only part disclosed.

 

Shall I keep this skeleton & amended defence ready now for when I have the permission from the DJ???:confused:

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Thanks IGNM all getting there now....however will this Skeleton & Amended Defence be acceptable at this stage as I thought an amended defence had to be done via an N244 and the WS sent Saturday (being dropped off today at court) says whats been submitted by them was codswallop. My WS also mentioned the relevant reasonings why there evidence also showed no compelling reason why it should not go to trial either. FACT

 

With the WS finishing off with

In addition to the points raised I would ask for the court to allow me to amend my orig defence as at the time I submitted the defence I did not have in my possession a full compliment of the documents which the claimant has now only part disclosed.

 

Shall I keep this skeleton & amended defence ready now for when I have the permission from the DJ???:confused:

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Thanks IGNM all getting there now....however will this Skeleton & Amended Defence be acceptable at this stage as I thought an amended defence had to be done via an N244 and the WS sent Saturday (being dropped off today at court) says whats been submitted by them was codswallop. My WS also mentioned the relevant reasonings why there evidence also showed no compelling reason why it should not go to trial either. FACT

 

With the WS finishing off with

In addition to the points raised I would ask for the court to allow me to amend my orig defence as at the time I submitted the defence I did not have in my possession a full compliment of the documents which the claimant has now only part disclosed.

 

Shall I keep this skeleton & amended defence ready now for when I have the permission from the DJ???:confused:

 

No - file and serve the skeleton and draft amended defence now

 

It is true that technically you should apply for permission to amend on an N244 HOWEVER you are a litigant in person and LIPS don't always fully understand court procedures so courts give them leeway - in my experience 99% of Judges will give you permission to amend on the basis of your skeleton and what you say at the SJ hearing. This way it avoids the need for a separate application and also avoids the £75 fee...

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If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Hi IGNM had trojans today coming up on the pc when messaging this morning so had to wait for full scan before I could get back online again. With time against me & the school run this afternoon it was unfortunate I did not get chance to see your reply and ended up dashing to court in a right state with just the WS in the end :(

 

Please dont think all your assistance has gone to waste at least I have it now ready for the next stage....and appreciate your work on this for me. I have also arranged for a PSU at the court next wk too to attend with me.

 

Will I hear anything from the court before next Mondays hearing or is this it now till then?

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You really do need to file and serve the skeleton and draft amended defence - sending it by first class recorded delivery is fine.

 

The skel and draft amended defence were prepared for use at the SJ hearing.

 

You won't hear anything from the court before next week

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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You really do need to file and serve the skeleton and draft amended defence - sending it by first class recorded delivery is fine.

 

The skel and draft amended defence were prepared for use at the SJ hearing.

 

You won't hear anything from the court before next week

Right I will crack on with it going off tomorrow then, nothing ventured nothing gained eh.....(recorded del both ways I take it?)

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