Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Hugh's CCA to Marbles


Hugh Jeffort
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4052 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Firstly apologies if this thread is in the wrong place, if anyone can suggest a better place or maybe a mod could move it!!!!!

 

I have CCA'd Marbles and the lovely people have replied with the following...

 

LGWDocSend-14-02-09-7KH7KNH-001.jpg

 

LGWDocSend-14-02-09-7KH7KNH-002.jpg

 

They also sent me my last 6 statements which was nice considering I didnt ask for them!!!!

 

The second copy is obviously an application form, although there is a statement at the top that it is an agreement. It does have all the relevant signatures but from what I can tell doesn't have any of the other required info. There is a statement at the bottom (In a bold box) that refers to Terms & Conds being on page 2, 3 and 4 but they did not send any of them!!

 

Whats my next step? They have sent a copy of what I asked....sort of....but is it enforceable or do they need a "you haven't complied letter"?

 

Any info would help no end!

 

Thanks

Edited by Hugh Jeffort
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 95
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Hiya Hugh Jeffort and welcome to the HSBC forum :)

 

Your correct, the application form they have sent you does not contain any of the prescribed terms and conditions, interest rates etc, etc that they are required to provide under a CCA section 78 request.

 

Your account is in default until they provide the required information :)

 

pete

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Hugh

I Have Exactly The Same Form

Im Just Trying To Decide My Next Move

The T&cs That Are Mentioned At The Bottom Of The Page Do Not Correspond With The 1s They Sent Me...

Im Just Thinking Maybe The Prescribed T&cs Were On The Back Which Could Be Page 2..

I Think This Would Make It Enforcible..

But We Dont Know Unless We See The Original Agreement And The Only Way To Do That Would Be Court..

I Was Just Scanning Round To See If Anybody Had Got Any Further With A Similar 1

Thats How I Came Across Yours..

If I Find Out Any More I Will Let You Know

 

Andre

Edited by ANDREAMOUR
SPELLING
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hiya ANDREAMOUR and Hugh, the CCA section 77/78 request asks for a copy of the terms and conditions governing your accounts not a copy of the application form.

 

The application for may or may not form part of the terms and conditions governing your account but until they send you the whole document you cant assume it does.

 

So your accounts are in default (not dispute) they have defaulted on your legal right to see a copy of the account agreement and as such the so called debt is unenforceable until they comply with your request :)

 

pete

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Pete,

 

Thanks for the info! On the application they sent me it does say 'Credit Agreement regulated by the Blah blah blah' I assumed they were incorporating the two together as they do have both my sig, their sig and a cancellation clause!!

 

Will it matter that my letter said account in dispute??

 

I'll have to read through and learn the difference, ha ha!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Hi Hugh ,

 

You've been very patient , but it's time to bring up the big guns now I think .:)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/

 

You'll find a SAR top of the list in the above link - send it to Marbles recorded delivery - they have 40 days from date they receive it to come up with the agreement or - the game's over - there is no debt !

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I've finally had a reply from Marbles in response to my 2nd letter, seems like a generic one where they go on about how they have complied with my request and how I have no right to withhold money!! The funny part is they go on about not having to provide me with a copy of the agreement I signed but they already have........and it doesn't contain any of the prescribed terms!!

 

I will post it as soon as I can get it scanned........will appreciate any advice on what to do next......still waiting for the SAR too!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

LGWDocSend-27-04-09-JWYHWAL.jpg

 

This is the letter I have recieved from Marbles last week.

 

The thing i'm not sure about is the letter states they dont have to send me a document that has my signature on it but they did!!

 

The application form does have both mine and their sigs but non of the prescribed terms. This was clearly stated in my letter to them but they seem to have sent a generic response!!

 

What should be my next step? Should I send another letter explaining it again?

Edited by Hugh Jeffort
Link to post
Share on other sites

If that is only an 'Application Form' Hugh , then it's not a legal document in the sense of an 'agreement '. i.e. you can apply for something , but it's not necessarily agreed .........

 

What they have to provide is an agreement -and they are right - they don't have to send you one with your signature on it , unless you ask them under CPR 18 (if you are considering asking them to produce it in court). But I'm sure it has to be a copy of the AGREEMENT you signed with all the T&Cs as part of the same document .

 

I think you may have to ask them again - and if you want to go down the court route try asking under CPR 18 (that's Court Procedural Rules btw).

 

Have a look at this link and see if it helps :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html#post1868913

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All,

 

Received a letter from Marbles this morning informing me that they are increasing my interest rate by over double to 33%!!!!

They do say if i'm not happy with this then I should close my account and continue paying off the balance as I have been!!

 

My question is if I decide to close the account can I still pursue the credit agreement enforceability or is this their way of punishing me for enquiring about it?

 

I have never missed a payment with them and therefore have no arrears or DN's, they obviously just dont want me as a customer anymore!!! Could this be because they know they do not have an enforceable agreement?

 

Lastly.....I promise.......... with reference to the letter they sent me in post 15, can i reply with a letter along the lines of....

 

Dear Sir,

 

I was a little confused with your response to my letter informing you that my account is in dispute, your letter states that you do not have to provide me with a true signed copy but you have previously sent me a copy of the signed agreement with both my signature and your own. The problem I have, which was stated in my previous letter, is that the the agreement is unenforceable as it does not contain any of the prescribed terms required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974........

 

Obviously i'd tart it up a bit but I want them to know they have sent me a signed agreement already and I know for a fact I didnt sign anything else!!

 

Any comments would, as always, be gratefully recieved!!

 

Thanks

Edited by Hugh Jeffort
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All,

 

Guess there is no-one that can comment on the letter I recieved but was hoping someone could comment on the latest gem from Marbles.....

 

I decided to request a copy of my agreement using the CPR 31.16 route only to be sent a letter which says the following....

 

"Dear Hugh,

 

Thankyou for your letter dated 7th May 2009.

 

In order for us to consider your request, please supply us with the correct 16 digit credit card number for the customer as the number quoted on your correspondance is invalid.

 

Your faithfully

 

Anne Gartshore "

 

Now this is puzzling as I have been using this account number to write to them for 6 months and have recieved replies...... why now have they decided they dont recognise it??

 

I was going to write something along the following lines and would appreciate any guidence.......

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (same one as i've always used)

 

Thankyou for your letter ref xxxxxxxxx

 

The account number I quoted you is the number I have used to correspond with you successfully on many occasions and is the number found both on my credit card and statement sent to my home address by you. I do not have another number that corresponds with this account..................................................

 

(then continue with a rewrite of the original request under CPR 31.16)

 

Would this be along the right lines or should I not mention having statements etc??

 

Getting so confused with all this and am struggling to find the min payments each month to keep them at bay!!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I was going to write something along the following lines and would appreciate any guidence.......

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (same one as i've always used)

 

Thankyou for your letter ref xxxxxxxxx

 

The account number I quoted you is the number I have used to correspond with you successfully on many occasions and is the number found both on my credit card and statement sent to my home address by you. I do not have another number that corresponds with this account..................................................Please find enclosed copies of the last 3 statements sent to my home by you.

 

(then continue with a rewrite of the original request under CPR 31.16)

 

Would this be along the right lines or should I not mention having statements etc??

 

Getting so confused with all this and am struggling to find the min payments each month to keep them at bay!!

 

 

Just added a little something to your letter. There is no problem admitting having statements as you are only asking for a copy of the agreement.

 

Sending them the last 2 or 3 copies should stop their little game.

Send everything recorded delivery.:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hugh, You may have noticed that recently marbles has been taken over by Aviemore which is part of the Bank of Scotland. Your earlier correspondance was with HFC of Birmingham, but now it is coming from Edinburgh. Also when this change occured they changed your account number. All this happened to me, I was getting threats to pay up for an account number I didnt recognise, then the penny dropped. I had sent HFC in Birmigham a request for CCA and got more or less what you received, put the a/c into dispute and a few letters went to and fro. Then they switched to Bank of Scotland with a new a/c number so I've just CCA'd them. They havent responded at all so I have once again declared them in default. I'm just wondering if any paperwork/records have been binned with this changeover - one can but hope!. It might be worth sending aother CCA request to the Edinburgh address quoting your new account number.

 

edit, you should find your new account number on your latest statement.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Griffin036,

I have noticed all the letters telling me of changes to my account but i'd already sent my CCA request off to HSBC so I just continued with that. I have been sending my latest letters off to Dunfermline and they have been coming back with Halifax headers.

Since I wrote the last post I dug out my last statement and it did have a new number on it so instead of sending them my statements I sent the correct number.......Doh!!!

I think we would be extremely lucky for paperwork to have gone missing, but fingers crossed!!

I recieved my application with the sigs on it but non of the prescribed terms, I know I didnt sign anything else but I still want to exhaust every angle on it before I withhold payment, getting tough cause I'm really struggling to find the min payments each month. Seems to me that they take more notice of you when you dont pay!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...