House ownership. What are my right ?

[sb_uk]

Hiya,

 

sorry if this is the wrong place to post this.

 

My mother and father got divorced a few years ago and my father was letting her have the house as part of the divorce settlement. Unfortunately, she didn't return the form to accept this before the divorce went through.

 

She died a year or so later and I contacted the mortgage company to inform them and they then put the house into my fathers name. I've paid the mortgage off since then and the house is still in my fathers name. I asked a solicitor about getting it changed over to my name, which my father has told me he's ok with, but the solicitor said he cannot do anything until he's discussed the implications with my father.

 

This was at least a year ago now and my father hasn't been to see the solictor about it. I'm just wondering if there is anything I can do and if I have any rights of my father changes his mind about signing it over to me.

 

Thanks for any advice

[MrShed]

If the house is legally in your fathers name, then it is his to do as he wishes with. The only difference to this would be if there was a CONTRACT in place between your father and yourself. The mere fact that you are paying the mortgage is meaningless by itself I'm afraid.

[gizmo111]

I guess a % of this property would have belonged to your mother and should have passed to her estate.

Were your parents actually divorced at the time of her death and did she have a will?

[sb_uk]

Thanks for your replies.

 

They divorced about a year before she died and due to the fact she didn't return the form the house remained in both of their names.

 

When I rang the mortgage company about her death, they put solely into my dad's name. This was about 2 1/2 years ago and I paid off the remainder of the mortgage about 2 years ago and have got the house deeds, which I've just been looking through and can see no mention of my mothers name being removed, but I guess that's just a side issue.

 

Last time I spoke to him he was willing to get it transferred into my name but that might change once he's spoken to the solicitor, if he ever gets round to it.

 

sorry forgot to add, my mother didn't leave a will

Edited February 5, 2009 by sb_uk
added information

[patdavies]

the house deeds, which I've just been looking through and can see no mention of my mothers name being removed, but I guess that's just a side issue.

 

 

These days, the deeds are fairly irrelevant; what matters is what is recorded at the Land Registry.

[gizmo111]

They divorced about a year before she died and due to the fact she didn't return the form the house remained in both of their names.

 

When I rang the mortgage company about her death, they put solely into my dad's name.

 

I wonder on what authority they put the name in your dads sole name? As they were divorced your dad had no automatic right to the property. Any will would be void that was made during their marriage.

 

I would talk to your dad and see if he is willing to give you your mums share as you say. In the meantime I would SAR the mortage company. Which one was it?

[patdavies]

I wonder on what authority they put the name in your dads sole name? As they were divorced your dad had no automatic right to the property. Any will would be void that was made during their marriage.

 

I think that this demonstrates a bit of muddled thinking on this thread (sorry, Gizmo, but yours was easiest to quote)

 

There are 2 entirely seoparate things here.

 

Ownership of the property and the mortgage - which does not confer ownership, but is merely a charge on the property.

 

The mortgage company were perfectly entitled to remove the mother's name on her death. As she had died. she could no be responsible for the repayment of the loan.

 

The OP has paid off the mortgage and this has released the charge on the property - but this does not in anyway change the ownership. The OP has no rights over the property simply by paying off the mortgage.

 

The ownership question will have to be decided by either the father relinquishing the property to the OP , or via the mother's will for a portion of it.

 

It should be worth noting, that any will made before the divorce is automatically voided by the divorce and unless she made a new will after divorcing the father, then the intestacy rules will apply. There may well be tax implications also depending on the value of the house.

[sb_uk]

There is definitely no will and to be honest I didn't even know the divorce had gone through at the time of her death.

 

I've had a quick nose on the Stamp Duty Calculator and that seems to suggest there will be no duty to pay, as the house is in a 'deprived area'.

 

I guess I'll just have to nag my dad into going to see a solicitor and see what happens.

 

Thanks for ur advice and comments

[buzby]

There is nothing to prevent your father making you a joint owner. If you both become 'tenants in common', you each have your interests ring fenced, and he can then deed his percentage of the property to you on death.

[gizmo111]

I've had a quick nose on the Stamp Duty Calculator and that seems to suggest there will be no duty to pay, as the house is in a 'deprived area'.

 

Why are you concerned about Stamp Duty?

 

Pat

 

I see what you are saying - but they wouldn't normally just remove the name unless they were sure there was no beneficiary to be paid out first.

Edited February 6, 2009 by gizmo111

[johnhowell]

As your mother was divorced and had no will - the children inherit her estate - which would include half of the house. This presumes that she was recorded as joint owner of the house before they divorced. On divorce the spouse is removed from the equation for intestacy. Your father has no right to your mothers estate.

 

The mortgage company want someone to pay the outstanding amount back. If you are not interested in the house then stop paying the mortgage and they will pursue your father.

 

Good luck,

John

[sb_uk]

As your mother was divorced and had no will - the children inherit her estate - which would include half of the house. This presumes that she was recorded as joint owner of the house before they divorced. On divorce the spouse is removed from the equation for intestacy. Your father has no right to your mothers estate.

 

The mortgage company want someone to pay the outstanding amount back. If you are not interested in the house then stop paying the mortgage and they will pursue your father.

 

Good luck,

John

 

 

Hiya John,

 

Thanks for that. I paid off the mortgage so that's no longer an issue.

 

Should I pay the 3 quid to the land registry to check what names are registered ?

[johnhowell]

Hiya John,

 

Thanks for that. I paid off the mortgage so that's no longer an issue.

 

Should I pay the 3 quid to the land registry to check what names are registered ?

 

Three pounds is nothing to confirm the ownership. However, depending on how long your parents had been present in the house, it may only be registered in your dads name. The wife was "ignored" in the olden days. Only recently are people transfering ownership into "tenants in common" and revising the title at HM Land Registry - for IHT purposes.

 

Edited to add: Sorry sd, I had not noticed that you had looked at the original deeds: "I paid off the remainder of the mortgage about 2 years ago and have got the house deeds, which I've just been looking through and can see no mention of my mothers name being removed". If your mother is named with your father on the original deeds and duplicated on the HMLR copy then that is good news for you - as her part of the house would have past to you. The presumption at HMLR is joint ownership (50:50) unless other wise stated on the TR1 form (not repeated on the title) - for instance I am 30:70 ownership with my partner.

 

 

Good luck,

John

Edited February 6, 2009 by johnhowell

[johnhowell]

These days, the deeds are fairly irrelevant; what matters is what is recorded at the Land Registry.

 

 

The original deeds ARE relevent because they are what you purchased and contain more information than HM Land Registry record. I deal with HMLR almost every day and the newer title deeds and plans are getting worst. HMLR summaries drastically the clauses and conditions in the original deeds - also they do not replicate the boundary feature responsibilty "T"s or "H"s on the title plans

 

Regards,

John

[sb_uk]

Well, I just did the Land Registry thing and the land is owned by someone else.

 

I forgot we pay ground rent every so often

[johnhowell]

Well, I just did the Land Registry thing and the land is owned by someone else.

 

I forgot we pay ground rent every so often

 

See, if under the particular address, there is leasehold - this should be your parents then. Look at the original deed - does it mention leasehold.

 

Regardless, half of the lease should be yours and your siblings under intestacy rules.

 

John

[sb_uk]

According to the Land Registry Site, the tenure of the address is Freehold.

 

I've had a look through the deeds, and on the document relating to my parents purchase of the house it said Lease.

 

Since the land the house is on is rented, is there anywhere else that will show who's name the house is actually in, other than the title deeds which seem to suggest the house is still in both names?

 

I'm now assuming that the mortgage company only removed my mother from their records of who was paying the mortgage. Although I could be wrong in that

[johnhowell]

Sd,

 

If there is only one entry on the HMLR website for your particular address and it is the freehold, then the leasehold has not been registered at HMLR. Leaseholds did not have to be registered unlike freehold. Recent LR Acts have changed the criteria to registration.

 

So the paper deeds you possess are paramont and RELEVANT to your case. Look after them...;-)

 

I would ask your father to comfirm in writing to the transfer in the Leasehold ownership to you, as successor in title of your mothers estate. Go back to the solicitor and progress the transfer.

 

Just to be sure - you are the only child of your mother? Intestacy rules gets more complicated - deceased sibling with children, adopted children...

 

Good luck,

John

Edited February 6, 2009 by johnhowell

[patdavies]

Why are you concerned about Stamp Duty?

 

Pat

 

I see what you are saying - but they wouldn't normally just remove the name unless they were sure there was no beneficiary to be paid out first.

 

A mortgage doesn't have beneficiaries - only mortgagees. There is no pay out to the mortgagees - exactly the opposite in fact. A will has beneficiaries, but is nothing to do with the mortgage.

 

A mortgage company will remove the name of a mortgagee on receipt of a death certificate.

 

The names on any mortgage document are immaterial to ownership of the property.

[Kraken1]

My land law is rusty, but if they held the property as joint tenants, which I assume would be the case if they bought when married, then one tenant's share would automatically revert to the other following their death, unless the tenancy was severed. I think. I'm dredging back a decade on the old memory here.

 

Would paying the mortgage not create some sort of equitable interest or trust?

[gizmo111]

Would paying the mortgage not create some sort of equitable interest or trust?

 

Not that I'm aware of, but I would be surprised if a mortgage company just changed the name on a mortgage without proof of who is now the owner - ie a will or probate docs or some other comclusion. Maybe they do, but if they do that on a death certificate then any joint mortgagee can claim the property is theirs regard;ess of wills etc.

[rory32]

My land law is rusty, but if they held the property as joint tenants, which I assume would be the case if they bought when married, then one tenant's share would automatically revert to the other following their death, unless the tenancy was severed.

Correct. Normally the joint tenancy would be severed and they would become tenants in common as part of the divorce proceedings but it is important to check that they actually were. A notice in writing is the most common way of doing this severing the joint tenancy.

 

If the joint tenancy was not severed then the property would pass to the OP's father (see Harris v Goddard 1983 in which it was ruled that the “prayer” to sever a joint tenancy was insufficient).

[sb_uk]

Well, it definitely wasn't severed, so I guess the house is totally my dads.

 

I'll have to keep on his good side then lol

 

Thanks for all your advice