BritishGas/Debt collectors want money not owed

[madskier]

Hi,I hope someone can help me?

In 2001 i brought a home that had card meters to pay for gas and electricity (previous owners had them) ,the gas with British Gas ,and the electricity from memory with either Scottish or Eastern Electric.I had the meters taken out by Transco and replaced with normal meters so i could pay via direct debit.

 

Once all this was done i moved everything over to PowerGen ,after this happened i was contacted by British Gas to say that there was an outstanding amount owed for electricity ,but I contacted British gas when PowerGen took over to check all this and was told there was no outstanding balance owed,In fact from memory it turned out to be something to do with the meters not being read correctly when installed by Transco.

 

Anyway roll on to 28th Jan 2009 and upon arriving home i found a letter from British Gas saying they have tried several times to contact me with regards to an outstanding balance of £182.98 owed from my final electricity bill dated 04/02/2003,and this has now been handed to Arrow Global Receivables Management Ltd.

 

Until this letter arrived i have never had any contact from British Gas since I switched to PowerGen almost 6 1/2 years ago.

 

I have rang Arrow Global and put this in Dispute (they advised to return the letters to them with In Dispute written at the top ,and I have also spoke to a customer service person at British Gas explaining that I owe them nothing ,and their advisor stated on the phone that "they were experiencing huge problems with their systems as they are updating their records old/new to a new system" and that "someone would look into this and get back to me within 48hrs" .

 

I have also sent them an email explaining all and will apparently be sent an email back within 5 working days ,and that brings it up to the current situation ,and i assume after all this it will still be hells own job to get this resolved.

 

What should i do ,and what legal protection do i have ,with regards to Debt Collectors and what they can and cant do while all this is being sorted out?

 

Any advice would be greatly received with thanks

 

madskier:-x

[BankFodder]

Well really you need to know how bad it has really got.

 

Have they entered any negative information on your credit file? They probably have and it will be very difficult to get this removed. I suggest that you check your credit file now and also keep an eye on it every couple of months or so.

 

I gather that you have had no contrat with BG since 2001. Is this correct?

And that they are now pursuing you for a debt which they say is dated 4.2.2003.

 

British Gas are always expereincing huge problems wit their systems. they have been for years. They seem to operate several databases which don't talk to each other so that their rcords are fragmented and you never know which database their support staff are accessing when you talk to them - so you can get different asnwers and different results each time.

It is throughly irresponsible of them and I am sure that there is a basis for a complaint to the IC about this - but I'm afraid that I don't expect that the IC would take much interest. Big companies like this have little to fear from the IC. They fob him off easily and fankly the IC seems generally to be the company's friend and not a portector of human rights - which should be its correct position.

You were very lucky to get someone to admit that they are experiencing these problems. Of course I am sure that you didn't record this call and so youhave no evidence that it was eve said and if you need to make a point of it later, they will deny that it was ever said.

Record your calls.

 

You have already taken steps to try and sort it out. Probably best to wit the 5 days to see if the matter is cleared up.

However, I would certainly contact the regulator straightaway. This used to be a pretty effective way to deal with this kind of problem because you could phone them, they would phone the gas company on some special line and you could get results striaghtaway.

I see that this good system has been closed down and that it is all now handled by Consumer Direct - which I take to mean Consumer inDirect as I imagine that they are too stretched, under-resourced, dealing with too many areas to be able to deasl with anything properly. Lte me kow if I'm wrong.

Consumer Direct is meant to be the approachable and accesible-consumers-face of the OFT. I don't have much confidence frankly

How to complain

 

Anyway, contact them. However if nothng is done within 5 days then you better start dealing with it yourself.

The debt collectors are like dogs - and only their master can call them off. They are mindless, motivated by instinct not by reason.

 

You will have to start by serving an SAR on BG and go from there. you will have to be persistent and prepared to go down a formal county court route if necessary.

Come back here if it looks as if this is the way it is going to turn out.

 

record your calls

[Bryan Habana]

I found this piece of information this week.

 

I received the same bill from British Gas for electricity for an account opened in Sep 2002 to Dec 2005. I bought my property in Sep 2004 and have no dealings with the previous owners as I changed all bills onto my name as soon as I took ownership. I also cancelled British Gas and Electricity in March 2005.

 

I received a bill from Arrow Global Receiveables on Monday 26/01/2009.

 

The letter states the same nonsense you had described from Brisitsh GAS.

Several attempts to contact you.

Account now handed over to Arrow Global Receiveables.

 

The Arrow letter states if I don't pay in 30 days from the date on the letter (20/01/2009) the account will be reported as a "default account" with the relevant credit agencies.

 

I, like you have not received any correspondence from British Gas, no phone calls or letters or even a final bill. I don't know what this bill is in respect of and from which month it was calculated or what meter reading was used.

 

I suspect the reason British Gas has not sent you a bill and only a final demand notice from Arrow is with regard to "The code of Practice for Accurate bills which British Gas has signed up to.

 

Here's a copy and paste of the bill

 

"The code of Practice for Accurate bills (the Code) has been developed by the Energy Retail Association (ERA) with POwergen, British Gas, EDF Energy, npower and Scottish Power to address action raised in Ofgem's response to the Billing Super Complaint for domestic customers.

 

These companies all support the independently-audited Code of Practice and are committed to the Code as a minimum standard of service for customers. The Code states that:

 

"From the 1st July 2006 where the supplier has been at fault in not billing a domestic customer the supplier will not send a bill which includes energy consumed more than 2 years previous to the bill being issued. From 1st July 2007 this period will reduce to 1 year" (Clause 3.5)

 

This Code is effective from 1 July 2006.

 

This policy does not apply to

 

• Business customers
  
• Customers paying on a prepayment meter (there is a separate policy for PPM)
  
• Customers obtaining energy illegally (e.g. interfering with their meter)
  

2.1 Energy Consumption

 

2.1.1 A bill has not been sent in two years

Where the supplier is at fault in not billing a customer in the previous two years, we will not bill a customer for more than two years worth of consumption unless it's in the customer's favour; the consumption relating to the oldest period (i.e. the period older than two years) will be withdrawn.

 

For the purpose of 2.1.1, the supplier is at fault where they have made no attempt to bill or communicate with an existing customer during the previous 24 months.

 

Specific exclusions

 

The supplier is not at fault where

• A new customer has failed to notify the supplier that they are living in the property and we have sent letters to the address or we have continued communicating with the previous occupier
  
• The property is newly built and the supplier is unaware of its usage
  
• The customer has deliberately taken steps to avoid a bill being sent
  

2.1.2 An inaccurate bill has been sent previously

Where the supplier is at fault in under-billing a customer by sending inaccurate bills, when issuing a corrected one, the supplier will not collect for any additional consumption (i.e. the shortfall between what was bills and what was used) that is more than two years old. This difference will be withdrawn if applicable.

 

Specific exclusions

 

The supplier is not at fault if

• The energy billed previously was based on incorrect information and the correct information was not available to them at the time (e.g. technical specifications of the meter (such as number of dials))
  
• For technical reasons, a bill issued previously has to be withdrawn and reissued
  

However, in these cases, the supplier will review each case individually and may apply a "poor service" adjustment to the account if it is appropriate.

 

For the purpose of 2.1.2, the supplier is not at fault if they can demonstrate that they have taken all of the following actions:

• A. Read or attempted to read the meter at the premises within the last 24 months
  
• B. Provided opportunities for the customer to submit their own meter reading at any time on any day; and
  
• C. Any bills sent to the customer are clearly indicated as estimates (if applicable) and that these have been based on any previous history, or (if not available) on average consumption for a similar property
  

**************

And This Below

"The Code of Practice for Accurate Bills (the “Billing Code”) was launched in July 2006 along-side the Energy Ombudsman.

Five of the main energy supply companies in the UK have signed up to the Billing Code, namely British Gas, npower, EDF Energy, E.ON Powergen and Scottish Power. The Billing Code provides consumers with additional protection over and above that required by the regulator Ofgem for accurate and informative billing.

The Code includes a requirement for consumers to be protected from debt where the supplier is at fault for not billing energy supply. Where the supplier is at fault, consumers cannot be back-billed beyond 12 months from the date on any subsequent bill.

The Billing Code Governance is undertaken through the Billing Code Governing Board with one representative from each member. The governance rules require Code Members to comply with the Code and to be subject to the disciplinary procedures set out in the Code. The Energy Retail Association has appointed a Code Manager to carry out the supervision, administration and day-to-day operation of the Billing Code.

The Code Manager acts independently of all Members in operating the Billing Code, putting into place monitoring procedures regarding Member performance, ensuring corrective action where agreed performance standards are not met and setting sanctions consistent with the Code.

In addition an annual audit of individual Member’s compliance with the Code is carried out by the Code Auditor an independent body appointed by governing Board employing a firm of registered auditors. KPMG were appointed as Code Auditor in August 2006.

Supporting the Code’s governance framework is the Code Panel whose members are independent and come from a variety of backgrounds, including consumer representation and the wider business field. The Panel is the means whereby appeals from Code Members against decisions of the Code Manager will be heard, and it will also take an overview of the operation of the Code and put forward recommendations.

Since the Billing Code’s inauguration, much work has been done with its Members to ensure that Members have appropriate procedures and processes in place which enable them and their Billing Operations and Customer Services to comply with the Code. The ERA works closely with its Members who are continuously working to improve billing practices across the industry."

********************

As a footnote to all this, Scottish and Southern Energy (the other of the big six suppliers) have not signed up to this code as they have their own customer charter (available to view on their website). They were back-billing for only one year long before this code was put into place and their charter goes further than the above mentioned code.

I doubt you would be referred to consumer focus to be honest, unless your classed as vulnerable or in danger of getting cut off. You can't refer your self unfortunately. Similarly, the Ombudsman would at least have expected you to have followed the companies complaints handling procedures first before they would consider your case.

Consumer direct can tell you how to do this, or you should be able to view the companies complaint handling statements online. I found npower's, but b/gas, as usual, don't want to make life that easy.

In relation to the 7-10 days / 4-6 weeks. - npower have taken over the incorrect supply by the sounds of things, and now must to an "erroneous transfer" to return the supply they thought was yours back to where it came from. This process can take 4-6 weeks, but you shouldn't need to wait until this is completed to get your money back. They can issue a refund in the meantime, which will probably take a week or so (7-10 days)

Reference.

http://www.npower.com/web/At_home/customer_service/contact_us/WCMS_003295

http://www.energy-retail.org.uk/AbouttheCode.html

[wintermare]

hi there

i got a similar letter from bgas from2007.

after many calls and messing around i called consumer direct.they gave me a ref number to contact them if i got the run around again.but what they said is

 

 

call 08000728632

and say you are lodging a formal complaint against scottish gas,you require coppies of all bills generated for the period.and you need a complaint ref number

 

personally i found them so so helpful

the said they would look into it and call me back next week then they phoned half an hour later getting back to me

 

hope this helps

[madskier]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for all you're replies ,after receiving the first letter I have been in contact several times with both British Gas - Debt Dept,Payment Dept and also Arrow Global (who i must say have been both understanding and professional while the matter wa in dispute).

 

I emailed BG,s customer complaints on the first day and although it stated that a reply would come within 5 days it actually took nearly two weeks,but on friday evening i received a phone call, informing me that seeing as it had taken over 6 years to contact me, even if i did owe them something legally they could not pursue the matter any further,and that it had indeed been a mistake on their part and the account would be written off, and sorry for the inconvenience.

 

I have nade sure in all contacts that i have made a note of the persons names and comments (such as one chap who informed me that it sounded like a cock up at their end as they use several incompatible systems and have been experiencing massive problems changing the systems over to a new one),also i ensured that i received an email confirming that it was BG's fault etc,so i have a legally binding hard copy proving i owe nothing and Arrow Global said to just send them a copy for their records.

 

So hopefully all is now sorted.

 

Once again many thanks to you all.

 

Madskier.