Me & my Debts - Haydon DMP since 2001- they charge a £20PCM fee from my <£40 payment - CCA time? In Scotland too!

[blueda]

thanks Ida In Fife. that is a well detailed letter of good content which i wil be using to contest Link financial.

[blueda]

I have today posted the follow up letter to Link financial by recorded delivery unsigned, i am wondering what response i will get this time after the last letter from them.

[blueda]

Hi Folks, i have received a follow up letter from one of the 3 Cabot accounts, as follows.

Our response to your letter.

I refer to your letter,which was received in this office on 6th january 2009.

I understand that your query relates to your request for all the relevant information required according to the Consumer Credit \act 1974.

I must stress that,under the consumer Credit Act 1974 section78 (1), there is no obligation to provide a true and complete copy of the credit agreement if there is no longer a true and complete copy of the credit agreement in existence. Nor is there an obligation upon us to provide a full statement of account or copy of a deed of assignment.

Furthermore,as the accounts were opened in 2000, Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) no longer hold this documentation. Please be advised that under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 it states the Creditor...shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any),, and stress the words ,,if any''.

Notwithstanding the above i am enclosing the relevent Cabot statement in relation to your account. This clearly shows that you acknowledge the above account as you have made repayment towards the same since 2004 by way of a monthly repayment plan.

For ease of reference the outstanding balance on the above account is £1,031.02. I would recommend you contact our collections department, within 14 days, on 0845 0700 116 to re-arranged your repayment plan accordingly.. I must inform you that if we do not hear from you within this time frame, this account will be returned to our collections procedures.

I trust i have clarified matters for you and set our position clearly.

Yours sincerely

Lucy O,hara

customer Assurence Adviser

NOTES

With this letter we have enclosed:

Cabot statement of account

That is the letter from Cabot, with it is a page showing payments made by me ( through debt management ) from 09/08/04 to 31/12/08. Advice and suitable letter to send to them will be most welcome.

[butts]

Nice result there blueda....

 

They have admitted no CCA exists - a reconstructed one may be ok for a CCA request but I think a court would think thay were "taking the pis*"

 

I'm sure Rory will be along shortly to confirm this

[blueda]

Thanks butts, yes it is a an admission that the CCA doesnt exist and they are trying to bluff there way, hoping that i will get feart. And yes hopefully Rory will be along soon.

[rory32]

This is what I did when RBS admitted there was no agreement http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/93884-wescot-rbofs-oh-dear.html

 

You may wish to adapt the letter to your circumstances (I think it's on the second page). Ideally you want Cabot to berger off in whatever way they see fit e.g. write the account off and discharge your liability (Cabot are unlikely to do this) or return the account to the OC who you can then pressurise to write the account off.

[blueda]

Thanks Rory, i am going to print the letter now, Cabot purchased this debt, are they likely to return it to RBS ?

[rory32]

There usually seems to be a clause which allows them to return the account to the OC.

[blueda]

Today i recieved a letter for the three Cabot accounts i have, all three letters have the same content as follows

Dear Mr Blueda

YOUR REQUEST FOR INFORMATION UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT

Unfortunately Cabot has not been able to provide you with the requested information within the relevant time period. We have worked hard to obtain this information for you. However, the original lender has not yet been able to locate the relevant information from their archives.

You are of course entitled to request the information direct from the original lender.

YOUR ACCOUNT

Cabot shall continue to hold any action on your account until further notice.

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT ?

Although Cabot is dependant on the original lender for the information,the relevant time period has now expired. However,Cabot shall continue to request the information from the original lender to assist with your request. WE hope to receive the relevant information shortly.

Any advice from fellow caggers welcome please

Edited February 18, 2009 by blueda
Spelling mistakes

[thrubolt]

Hey blueda, like myself, how many more letters are they going to send in that vein, stalling for time all the time, blaming the original so called creditor, send them something to counter like show your cards now or chuck the deck and leave the table and forfeit the game. I have just told them to walk the plank and feed the fish coz fish feed off sick SHARKS.

[blueda]

Hi thrubolt, i take it you have been dealing with Cabot ?, id like to hear of your experience with them.

[blueda]

Cabot are showing an inconsistency, the letter sent to me which i printed on this thread on 11th february for one of the accounts, which is a threatogram, compared to the letter i printed yesterday, which came from the 3 Cabot dealings i have, and is 3 polite standard letters. All comments welcome.

[silverfox1961]

When you start calling their bluff, I've found the letters suddenly become more polite. If any CCA is valid, they soon change their tune. I believe that they are worried about legal action so by appearing to seem ready to help (in the polite letters) it may make them look good in the eyes of the court. Just my belief of course.

 

fox

[blueda]

Cheers silverfox, i posted a recorded delivery response to their threatogram on Saturday, which would have crossed in the post, so i suppose i will get a response from that.

 

The reply from Link financial arrived today and is as follows,

Dear Mr Blueda

COMPLAINT ACKNOWLEDGEMENT LETTER

Thank you for recent complaint.

At this time we are unable to resolve your complaint but acknowledge receipt of it. Your complaint has been assigned to the Complaints Manager. Please find enclosed a copy of a summary of our complaints procedure. We will contact you within the next 4 weeks.

They sent with it a page outlining the complaints procedure. What is the next step folks ?.

[rory32]

At the moment you don't need to do anything.

[blueda]

I received a letter today from Cabot, as follows

OUR RESPONSE TO YOUR LETTER

I refer to your letters datede 3rd January and 12th February 2009, and our letters dated 6th, 21st January, 3rd and6th february 2009.

The Cabot Financial Group purchased your account from Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) the original lender, on or about 6th July 2004. The Cabot Financial Group, the assignee of your account, is entitled to collect the outstanding balance on your account and also to enforce the original terms of the credit agreement. Although Cabot does not have an obligation under section 77 and/or 78 of the consumer creddit Act 1974 to supply with information. Cabot will assist customers in order to provide information. Cabot does rely on the original lender to provide infomation in order to assist with your enquiries.

Cabot has requested a copy of the agreement from RBS, however as the account was opened in 2000, RBS no longer hold this documentation. Please be advised that under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 it states " the creditor...shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and stress the words " if any" .

Notwithstanding the above, it is the case that you signed and agreed to the terms of the agreement, as you have clearly acknowledged this debt, by way of making repayment towards the same. Please find enclosed a statement of your account.

With regards to your subject notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1988 (DPA). section 10 (1) of the DPA states:

" Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a Data Controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal Data in respect of which he is the Data subject, on the ground, for specified reason-

(a) the processing of those Data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or another, and

(b) that damage or distress is or would be unwarrented."

Section 10(2) of the DPA states:

Subsection (1) does not apply

(a) In a case where any of the conditions in paragraphs 1 to4 of schedule 2 is met, or in such other cases as may be prescribed by the secretery of state by order."

I refer your attention to paragraphs 1 to 4 of schedule 2 of the DPA, which states :

Conditions relevent for purposes of the first principle : Processing of any Personel Data

1. The Data subject has given his consent to the processing.

2. The processing is necessary

a. For the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party, or

b. For the taking of steps at the request of the data subject with a view to entering into a contract.

3. The processing is necessary for compliance with any legal obligation to which the data controller is subject, other than an obligation imposed by contract

4. The processing in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject."

You shall note that section 10(2)(a) of the DPA the words "any of the conditions" and paragraph 1 and 2 of schedule 2 of the DPA are entirely relevent to your case. As you signed a credit agreement which has been assigned to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, of which the terms we are entitled to enforce, section 10(1) of the DPA does not apply to your circumstances.

I can confirm the outstanding balance on your account is £1.031. Therfore i would recommend you contact our collections team on 0845 0700 116, to re-arrange your payment plan. I must inform you that your account will be returned to our collections procedures, if we do not hear from you within this time frame.

If you have any further queries in relation to the above account, please do not hesitate to contact me on 0845 026 0463. The Customer assurence department is open from 9 AM to 5 PM Monday to Friday.

Yours sincerely

 

NOTES With this letter we have enclosed STATEMENT OF ACCOUNT.

All advice from fellow caggers welcome please.

[IdaInFife]

send them this as your reply,

Account In Dispute

Ref:

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

unfortunatley alot of companies will not conform to the s10 notice and the only way to enforce it would be though court if you are really worried about your CF but this also may make them look harder for a cca

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/111211-defaults-background-removal-methods.html

 

 

ida x

[blueda]

Thanks for the link Ida,

the letter template you have kindly posted is the one i sent to them,

thats the letter they have replied to,

i now need to find out the next step,

i want to deal with them without getting my credit file messed up again ( although i dont want any more credit )

My credit rating has improved over the years that i have been paying through a private DMP.

[IdaInFife]

Sorry, didn't realise you had sent that one.

 

Unfortunatley there is not much more you can do than make a complaint to TS etc

 

Ida x

[blueda]

Cheers again Ida. I have been pondering with the idea for some time, that now the creditors are starting to admit there is no CCAs for the accounts, that i could as a goodwill gesture offer them a much reduced settlement as full and final payment, like for this Cabot RBS account £50.00, all advice welcome.

[IdaInFife]

That's what I did.

 

I wanted to clear them and get them removed from credit files.

 

Juts remeber to word your fianl and final the correct way so noone else can chase you for the remainder. i have put and example for you:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: 4563210025897412

 

We write with reference to the money which you are claming on the above account.

 

We can confirm that we are unable to offer to pay the money which we owe in full. However, I can raise £775 and I want to offer this as an ex−gratia payment in full and final settlement of the account. This offer is made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither you nor any associate company will take any other action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that we will be released for any liability.

 

We also request that, if accepted, you will make an entry on a credit reference agency file relating to the above account as "satisfied" in full.

 

Payment can be made within 2 weeks of receiving your written agreement of this offer and method of payment.

 

We look forward to receiving your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ida x

[blueda]

That looks like what im looking for Ina, the first line is like not confirming the debt is enforcable. Can you guide me on what percentage i can drive them down to ?.

[IdaInFife]

I started off and sent an offer of 10% of the balance. None took it but they ranged from 15% - 33%.

 

 

Ida x

[blueda]

10% of the RBS account is just over £100, should i offer as low as £50.as there is no CCA ?, i have 2 other Cabot accounts to deal with, although so far this is the one they are being awkward with, i also have an MBNA debt owned by Link.

[IdaInFife]

yeah, you can offer anything you want to. I was just saying that is where i started off.

 

 

Ida x