Me & my Debts - Haydon DMP since 2001- they charge a £20PCM fee from my <£40 payment - CCA time? In Scotland too!

[rory32]

It's a standard response from Cabot. They are usually quite quick to send this letter out. RBS on the other hand probably won't have a copy of the agreement if the account is more than 7/8 years old.

[blueda]

Cheers Silverfox and Rory, yes it looks to me like a standard letter in response from CCA requests that they are receiving regulary, i will be having a drink tonight cos im actually enjoying this now.

I am waiting now for two more such letters from Cabot regarding original accounts with Morgan Stanley gold fish account and Scottish power Visa, plus a reply from Link regarding MBNA, and they are accounts that started in 2000. I no longer use or want credit cards again, so always pay cash for everything and have never run any more debt since 2000.

Rory, if i remember correctly the RBS credit card was taken out in 1999.

In 1993 we lost almost £3000 from RBS in phantom withdrawals. When reported the bank treated me very badly, like i was a liar and a criminal, after a long process we lost largely due to the local manager lying about where i kept my pin number when visiting the cash machine, he and his staff showed no care to our plight, maintaining it was our fault and that their system is full proof, all this from the bank that our family had business and private accounts for many years.

Ive received 2 more letters from Cabot, i now have a reply from all three accounts held by Cabot, and yes all three are the same standard letter Rory,

RBS account is more than 8 years old,

the others are Morgan Stanley

and HFC,

Link have not replied regarding MBNA, 

come tuesday of next week the 12 +2 days will be up and i will be sending a follow up letter,

not sure what letter it is yet.

All 4 accounts were opened in 2000.

[blueda]

Update, regarding CCA request that i sent to Link financial on the 29th of December, Link have not been in touch,so it is now 15 days since the CCA request was posted 1st class recorded delivery, i am sending the follow up letter tomorrow, any advice welcome.

[rory32]

You need to allow 12 full working days from their receipt of your request.

[blueda]

Thnaks Rory, do you mean monday to Friday as in a 5 day week as 12 days or is it Monday to Saturday ( 6 day week ) like the banks post office etc work,?

[rory32]

Working days are Monday to Friday. Also you do not include bank holidays.

[blueda]

Cheers Rory, i need to allow a day for New Year too.

PS - I dont remember getting a letter of assignment from any of the creditors when transferred to DCAs, I would be grateful if someone posted a description of what a letter of assignment has in context etc.

The only letters i remember getting is from the debt collection agencys introducing who they are and that they will be collecting the debt and payments to go to them, I have one from Cabot on file as saying they have purchased the debt.

I have studied the balance on the 3 accounts held by Cabot, on the reply letters to the CCA request,

2 of them have increased balance from the statements i keep,

The RBS one has doubled, yet the payments are always paid and on time by the debt management company.

Any advice as always welcome.

[silverfox1961]

Unfortunately Cabot feel they have a right to add charges anyway they see fit.

When i was paying cabot, they said in a letter that if I maintained payments, no charges or interest would be added to the account and in one letter they sent me the balance was over £700 but in the next the balance had dropped to under £600. You may get some more letters where the balance has mysteriously dropped again. you'll just have to wait and see.

 

fox

[blueda]

Hi Silverfox,

it looks that way, i have noticed that the balance jumps about from statements, this makes me even more determined to take them on, i nearly phoned them when i saw the balances tonight, and thought, better not.

I have never received a letter of assignment from any of them, i believe from studying this that they maybe be breaking the law and that i can use that against them, still no sign of the CCA from them, and Link have so far never replied.

 

Rory, All letters i have received from the banks and DCAs over the past 9 years have been forwarded to debt management company, with me retaining the photocopies in a file,

i dont have any letter of assignment from any of them, just letters introducing the DCAs,

does this mean as it looks like in the above legal quote, that the debt collection agencies have no legal right to collect the debt from me ?.

[blueda]

On december 30, i posted CCA request to Link financial, today i recieved the first reply, as followes

You have made a request under section 77/78 for copies of various documents.

As you are aware LINK FINANCIAL purchased your debt from MBNA EUROPE BANK LIMITED on 31 january 2001 and as such we do not always hold this documentation. We have reqeusted a copy of the agreement and the most recent terms and conditions your account was operated under from MBNA EUROPE BANK LIMITED and look forward to sending this to you in the near future, however please be advised that this can take up to 30 days to provide.

No adninistration charge has been applied to your account at this time and therefore any payment made with your request has been applied to reduce your outstanding debt. However where cost is incurred by Link for the provision of any statements by the vendor we will pass these charges on to you.

Your account has been put on hold for the next 14 days for you to contact this office with further details as requested above

Yours sincerely

Link financial Limited.

Advice on this will be most welcome thanks.

[rory32]

For the moment just file it.

 

Your account has been put on hold for the next 14 days for you to contact this office with further details as requested above

Which of course makes no sense. Obviously the one brain cell that they have was out of the office when this template letter was put together.

[blueda]

Thanks Rory, in the letter, talk of administration fees. So they have admitted they dont have CCA and that they purchased the debt from MBNA in 2001, what is the chance of MBNA having a CCA after all this time ?.

Edited February 5, 2009 by blueda
typing error

[rory32]

Very close to zero. Even if they do it is almost certainly not a compliant and therefore enforceable agreement.

[blueda]

I have received further reply from Cabot, 2 of the 3 requests have arrived in the post today,one day after the time up, one is Goldfish bank Ltd (Morgan Stanley) the other is Royal bank of Scotland. Both letters are the same content, as follows

YOUR REQUEST

We write to your request for information under sections 77 and/or 78 of the Consumer credit Act 1974.

Although Cabot has requested the information, the original lender is experiencing a delay in retrieving the information from its archives.

We shall send the information to you as soon as we receive it.

THE STATUS OF YOUR ACCOUNT

We will as a gesture of goodwill put your account on hold untill we receive further communication from the original lender.

CONTACTING CABOT

If you have any queries about your account or any payment options, call one of our helpful customer advisers on 01732 524630).

Yours sincerely

E Robertson

Customer Relations Department.

For years i have been paying the debts through a very good debt management company, a small company run by the owner and an assistant, 4 debts were cleared through debt management by arranged reduced settlements. I have always had a very good communication relationship with the owner and assistant by phone and letter, and as i have not told Vicky ( the owner who is currently working on her own) i feel as if i am being sneaky about it, not my usual way of working, i am going to have to pass on the information now as if i am stopping paying Cabot, i will need to instruct DMC. Any advice on any or all of this will be most welcome.

[silverfox1961]

well your account is on hold so they're not expecting any money. It's another standard response BTW. I've got one of them too

Your DMP will adjust the payments once you tell them

fox

[blueda]

Thanks silverfox, i will post off a letter of instruction with photocopies of the Cabot letters to DMC this weekend. The Debt with Link is on hold for 14 days, not sure what to do about that one yet.

[blueda]

The letter from Link Financial is dated 14 January, im wondering if i should now be sending them the follow up letter, informing them that the time for supplying a CCA has passed.

On the letter template for follow up it says after a further 30 days this matter becomes a criminal offence,

i read on another thread that it no longer is a criminal offence by the creditor,

can anyone tell me or direct me to the amended version ?

any advice will be much appreciated.

[rory32]

The 30 days no longer exists and no one was ever prosecuted for the summary criminal offence anyway. However any attempt to enforce the account would be an offence under s5(2), 3, 6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

[blueda]

Thanks Rory, do you know of a more suitable letter template i could use as a follow up ?

I have got some words written down which were supplied to me on another thread, and im going to put together a letter using them to post 1st class recorded to LINK FINANCIAL.

something like :

What i require is a true copy of the alleged signed agreement at the time it was made, and also a full audit trail of the account.

I also may now be requesting a full audit of the Link account to include the default notification and the termination of the MBNA account and the transferable rights.

My written permission for you or your company to process my data has not been given.

You shall cease forthwith from the processing of any Data concerning me until such time you can produce the true copy of my signature on any contract with MBNA. :

Thats the rough idea of what i will write, all advice most welcome.

[rory32]

What you need to do regarding this is to actually serve them with a formal notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act.

[blueda]

Where do i get the template for this Rory ? and how do i go about it ?

[dpick]

Hi I think this may well have been a coipy of one by rory.

 

And one S10 notice

Dear Sir/Madam

 

STATUTORY NOTICE UNDER S10 DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998

 

I refer to your recent admission that you cannot supply me with a copy of a Credit Agreement signed by me

 

At NO time have I given my written permission for you or your company to process my data

 

Therefore Take Notice that I require that you cease from processing within 7 days of the receipt by you of this notice or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party and insofar as the said data relates wholly or in part to the implementation by you of charges which have been applied to my account in respect of defaults or contractual breaches and where the said charges which have been levied at a rate which is in excess of the administrative costs incurred by you as a consequence of the said defaults or breaches contrary to The Common Law.

 

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which may already have been caused and that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998 to do so would be unwarranted.

 

 

Failure to remove ALL my data from your databases and from ALL Credit Reference Agencies will result in a formal complaint to the Information Commissioners’ Office.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

 

Make sure you edit out anything that doesn't apply and make sure you send them recorded delivery. Keep all receipts and after a couple of days go to the post office website and do a track and trace which will tell you when it was delivered.

 

 

dpick

[rory32]

Here's a template for a section 10 notice http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/5078-10-data-protection-act.html

 

Obviously you would need to adapt it quite a bit to your situation.

[blueda]

Thanks dpick and Rory, i am going to take a look at the templates and adjust to suit ciscumstances as you have both advised, and i will be in touch with progress

[IdaInFife]

This is what you need:

 

cca non compliance with s10:

 

Account In Dispute

Ref:

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Ida x