Repo order help with defence needed.

[frettful38]

LA just want to say that you have given very good advice to cosalt at a very critical time when needed.

 

You may soon be up there with the cag wizards with the great advice you are giving, great work and I am sure that cosalt will also agree.

 

TOP MARKS LA!!!!!!!!

 

BTW, good luck cosalt I hope all turns out well for you as I know only too well the traumas of going through court procedures, sorry I am not able to give you advice in your specific problem but can support and wish you well mate

[cosalt]

LA just want to say that you have given very good advice to cosalt at a very critical time when needed.

 

You may soon be up there with the cag wizards with the great advice you are giving, great work and I am sure that cosalt will also agree.

 

TOP MARKS LA!!!!!!!!

 

BTW, good luck cosalt I hope all turns out well for you as I know only too well the traumas of going through court procedures, sorry I am not able to give you advice in your specific problem but can support and wish you well mate

 

 

Absolutely agree !!! I have clicked LA's scales as much as I can and wish I could give more ! I am sure others will help to see those green blobs rising !

 

Thanks for the kind words, I think I will be more in position to help others after this too.

[frettful38]

Absolutely agree !!! I have clicked LA's scales as much as I can and wish I could give more ! I am sure others will help to see those green blobs rising !

 

Thanks for the kind words, I think I will be more in position to help others after this too.

 

 

your damn right you will be!!!!!!!!!!!

[cosalt]

sorry double post

[Lord_Alcohol]

Blimey - thanks guys, you're making me blush, but let's not count our chickens...we still need this to work out and of course the court may not allow set aside. Best to still be prepared for appeal but fingers crossed this will work.

 

LA

[cosalt]

not sure what I did there !!

[cosalt]

One last question, it asks on the form do I want this dealt with at a hearing or not? I would assume I say not ?

 

Also another last question ! How long would I expect this to take as presumably time is ticking on the appeal limit ?

[Lord_Alcohol]

One last question, it asks on the form do I want this dealt with at a hearing or not? I would assume I say not ?

 

I think it may be worth saying yes, because that will cause the claimant to re-evaluate his claim. If the application for set aside is heard in court, then the claimant has to defend his hopeless DN. He may at that point decide to abandon his claim entirely.

 

It may be additional agro for you, but may be worth it.

 

If you say no, then I think the application is just evaluated on its merits, probably by the court staff (not sure if a judge will look at it).

 

Also another last question ! How long would I expect this to take as presumably time is ticking on the appeal limit ?

 

I'm not sure but the court will (or should) tell you if you phone them and say that any delay eats into your time for appeal.

 

LA

[cosalt]

Great, I have phoned the claimants solicitors telling them I am looking for a set aside and if not appeal, they have agreed to halt collection of the vehicle for the time being.

 

Im off to the court now.........

[Lord_Alcohol]

Great, I have phoned the claimants solicitors telling them I am looking for a set aside and if not appeal, they have agreed to halt collection of the vehicle for the time being.

 

Im off to the court now.........

 

Good news, well done cosalt.

 

LA

[cosalt]

Ok not good news, I have been to the court and you can not ask to set aside an order for return of goods as there is no monetry value. Ican appeal but not set aside.

 

They explained that the order of return of goods is not a judgement against me, once the goods have been returned they can then apply for the monetry value remaining.

 

Any ideas ?

[colin21958]

LOL I thought it didnt look right ! Should that say pedantic ??

 

Nice one cosalt!

[Lord_Alcohol]

Ok not good news, I have been to the court and you can not ask to set aside an order for return of goods as there is no monetry value. Ican appeal but not set aside.

 

They explained that the order of return of goods is not a judgement against me, once the goods have been returned they can then apply for the monetry value remaining.

 

Any ideas ?

 

This isn't correct. You can apply to set aside any judgement, monetary or not. This makes no sense. Eg, why did the sols agree to put poss on-hold while you applied for set aside? What about property or tenancy possession judgements? All these can be set aside.

 

At your hearing, the court made a judgement against you. Was this for repo or was it for unpaid amounts (or both)? I assumed it was both.

 

The court is now saying that there is no judgement against you, so we need to unravel this before making any more decisions.

 

I would now ask the court to provide the judgement to you in writing along with the repo order. I would also ask them to provide detail why they will not consider set aside for a non-monetary judgement.

 

Additionally, the court is now saying that a further claim may be received, for the unpaid amounts. This is just wrong and I think the court do not know what they are talking about.

 

When you call them, ask to speak to the court manager and no-one else.

 

LA

[Bigdebtor]

Absolutely agree !!! I have clicked LA's scales as much as I can and wish I could give more ! I am sure others will help to see those green blobs rising !

 

Thanks for the kind words, I think I will be more in position to help others after this too.

 

Just clicked LA's scales as well - he's quite clever for a member of tyhe aristocracy!

I agree with LA above. I really don't think the info you were given in court this morning is right - but I'm relying on logic and commion sense - not normally the bedfellows of the law. However I really don't think the Law can be so big an Ass!

 

I hope a (sensible) lawyer can give you the true SP soon.

 

Good luck again!

 

BD

Edited May 27, 2010 by Bigdebtor
Typos

[colin21958]

Just clicked LA's scales as well - he's quite clever for a member of tyhe aristocracy!

 

BD

 

Yes, I clicked his scales too; he's good isn't he!?. But then you'd expect him to be quite good at this if he sits in the House of Lords!

 

Colin

[Lord_Alcohol]

Guys...please...let's get cosalt sorted before any more back-slapping

 

All I can think of at the mo is that the court has merely awarded the claimaint a return or possession order, which isn't (I think) like a CCJ (in that it is not registered with the CRAs).

 

So if not a bona fide judgement (in the way we think of them), then perhaps this is why the court is saying that it is not possible to set aside. Although I think this is a bit odd anyway. I would have thought that the judge would have made a money order for the unpaid amount plus a repo order for the vehicle.

 

The snag for the judge is that he has unilaterally overruled CCA on his own initiative, making success at appeal possible. So, even if there is no judgement at the moment against cosalt, the court might like to accept an application for set aside anyway (to save face).

 

That's something for you to argue for with the court manager cosalt, but if you get nowhere then appeal it is.

 

LA

[cosalt]

I now have the order, its says Judgement for Delivery of goods, orders the return of goods by 24th may ?? and costs of £290 forthwith. It then says on the back Money claims ajourned generally with liberty to restore.

Leave to appeal is refused.

[Lord_Alcohol]

I now have the order, its says Judgement for Delivery of goods, orders the return of goods by 24th may ?? and costs of £290 forthwith. It then says on the back Money claims ajourned generally with liberty to restore.

Leave to appeal is refused.

 

OK, so there may be another claim for unpaid amounts. Nasty. However, that will be CCA overruled twice (s87(1)(b) and (1)©!) by the same judge on the same day. What a berk.

 

Immediate return? Never seen that before. It's normally 14 days. I wonder if this is the reason for unavailability of set aside? If the court granted (or even spent time considering) set aside it would automatically conflict with the judgement. Maybe that's why they said no? However, that shouldn't be your concern - we can't have judges removing our legal rights in this way.

 

Anyway, the choice now I think is to either have another go at set aside by arguing with the court manager (which is what I would do), or just going for appeal as per the excellent posts above.

 

If a money claim comes in then there is a risk of a CCJ if this isn't dealt with.

 

Btw, did the original claim seek repo and unpaid amounts, or just repo?

 

LA

[Lord_Alcohol]

The other thing to watch out for is court bailiffs seeking the £290. As this wasn't (I assume) paid at the door as you left court, then they will start their own nefarious activities very quickly.

 

So very sensible to have a hard dig at the court again or start appeal asap.

 

LA

[Bigdebtor]

If they are not county court bailiffs then even if they have a copy of the warrant they can't take the vehicle off private land. Only a county court bailiff can do that - a bailiff from a private bailiff company can't.

 

The ones who turned up at your place today must be collection agents (or from a private bailiff company) sent by the finance company, a county court bailiff would not turn up to repossess without the warrant in his hand.

 

Just an aside. Bailiffs will try to bluff their way into effecting the repossession. If we don't believe their paperwork that they do have the right to take the goods away, and we refuse to allow it - what sanctions would be then be employed against us? Is it contempt of court?

 

Can we get the police involved if we think they don't have the rights they claim - or would they simply say "it's a (not so) civil matter"?

 

A bit off thread I know - but most of us wouldn't have a clue how to deal with anyone claiming to be a bailiff with authority to act on behalf of their client (if not on behalf of the court) and attempting to remove goods from privavte property - or for that matter succeeding because they misrepresnted their authority.

 

BD

[nks22]

If they don't have valid authority you'd think it should be a matter of theft and therefore a criminal matter. I'm guessing, though.

[Lord_Alcohol]

Just an aside. Bailiffs will try to bluff their way into effecting the repossession. If we don't believe their paperwork that they do have the right to take the goods away, and we refuse to allow it - what sanctions would be then be employed against us? Is it contempt of court?

 

Can we get the police involved if we think they don't have the rights they claim - or would they simply say "it's a (not so) civil matter"?

 

A bit off thread I know - but most of us wouldn't have a clue how to deal with anyone claiming to be a bailiff with authority to act on behalf of their client (if not on behalf of the court) and attempting to remove goods from privavte property - or for that matter succeeding because they misrepresnted their authority.

 

BD

 

Ah, bailiffs - now you've got me going!

 

I did tackle a firm of bailiffs in court - and won (although they actually abandonded at the door of the courtroom).

 

The thing to remember is that bailiffs have no real teeth, unless armed with a warrant of entry (very unusual) or you have carelessly invited them in for a cuppa (or left a window open upstairs with a ladder to hand). In cosalt's case, even though the DJ has issued an order, the bailiffs still may not use force. It would have to escalate quite a bit for that to happen.

 

The police will never bother attending, unless it turns ugly. The trick is to never speak to bailiffs at all, just do not answer the door. If you are unexpectedly confronted with one, just demand to see their certificate, ID (to confirm the certificate) and a warrant or order (or authorisation from a court). They absolutely must have all of these.

 

It can be frightening but bailiffs use fear and ignorance to help them, a bit like the Spanish Inquisition but without the robes and the fanatical devotion to the Pope

 

LA

[cymruambyth]

 

It can be frightening but bailiffs use fear and ignorance to help them, a bit like the Spanish Inquisition but without the robes and the fanatical devotion to the Pope

 

LA

 

:lol::lol: Memories of A level history

[cosalt]

The court have said point blank I can't apply for set aside, it must be appeal, if I do appeal once this is done it will stop the repo order and the order to pay costs.

 

I think the claimants will be scratching their heads now because I think they concentrated on the repo as they thought the vehicle was worth more than the outstanding amount and by repo they would get their money. Now they know it is only worth a couple of hundred at the most and will need recovering offsetting any value, they wont get their money unless they back to claim the money, which presumably based on my fiancial position could be £10 a week.

 

Could it be worth offering them a one off settlement now, as its in their control to either go further or not, especially if I make it clear an appeal is being prepared.

[cosalt]

However bearing in mind the court told me I couldnt appeal, which we know is wrong, is anyone able to confirm conclusively that I can or cant do a set aside ?