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Taz11 v RBoS credit card debt


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Hiya Taz, I am truly sorry I havent been around the last couple of weeks.

 

Okey dokey. Blair Oliver & Scott are the "in house" lackeys for Royal Bank of Scotland. I think the Halifax also use them, so you wouldnt have received a Notice of Assignment. The minute you challenge them they tend to back off. Lets hope your letter, which BTW was ok. However, I have put a link to 2 of lexis200's threads. (Halifax and Bank of Scotland. Have a trawl through them.

 

You will see how lexis has proceeded with these clowns. She has researched her letters and comments thoroughly so you will have no problems being able to adapt her letters for any future correspondence.

 

Along with the template letters, you will find that both RBOS and Blair Oliver have a horror of coming out of their comfort zone.

 

They will try the moral blackmail route at some stage.. ie .. you have had the money and you are obligated to pay it back.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/160990-lexis200-bos-take-two.html

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/156429-lexis200-hbos-blair-oliver.html

 

ANy letter you write to them, you must head up, Account in Dispute. Whether they like it or not, whilst they are in default of your CCA request then you have a dispute.

 

I find it odd that BOS should say you have received a Default notice when you havent ?

Edited by citizenB
putting correct link in :)

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4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Another thing you can do is to make a complaint to the OFT using the letter drafted by Bankfodder in the following link. You might need to amend it slightly in respect of what you have received and what you are sending.

 

They will be unable to do anything in that you are an individual, however they do monitor the amount of complaints that come through and take action when it looks like the consumer is getting a raw deal.

 

In this instance, I would just send a copy of the letter you received from Rbos that says they know whilst they havent provided you with the document you requested they cant take enforcement action. Along with a copy of the letter from Blair Oliver and bundle it off to the OFT.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/50-complaint-in-respect-of-dca-threat-re-expired-debt/101-complaint-in-respect-of-invalid-cca-agreement.html

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4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi CB,

 

Really no need to apologise. We all have a life outside of this forum...lol.

 

 

I certainly haven't received a default notice from Bank Of Scotland, but obviously Blair Oliver and Scott seem to think I have..lol ??

 

I have headed the letter Account In Dispute. I'm really having fun with these twerps (for use of a better word that would be censored...lol). I'm finding it very hard to believe that they will have anything resembling an original agreement, because as someone suggested earlier, the account was originally RBS ADVANTA, so I'd be interested to see a MINT agreement........lol

 

 

I'll see what my letter brings and will keep it updated. Thanks again for your input.

 

regards

 

Taz11

Taz11 v NatWest/Triton: Unenforceable :D

Taz11 v BOS: Unenforceable :D

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sorry CB, just seen your OFT link, excellent letter in there, thanks for that. That will be another one used in the very near future ;)

Taz11 v NatWest/Triton: Unenforceable :D

Taz11 v BOS: Unenforceable :D

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sorry CB, just seen your OFT link, excellent letter in there, thanks for that. That will be another one used in the very near future ;)

 

To wind Blair Oliver up, I sent a copy of the OFT letter to Blair Oliver along with a covering letter that said something along the lines of.

 

Dear Sirs

 

This is just a courtesy letter to letter to advise you of the steps I have taken in this matter.

 

Please find attached a copy of my letter to the Office of Fair Trading.

 

YOurs faithfully.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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lol, I now have a whole folder just of template.docs for me to send...lol

 

As a matter of interest CB, I just read the lexis links you posted and have subbed as there is some excellent info there.... could you advise where you found/got this from, as it would obviously be major ammunition in the event they rely on an application form.

 

 

"Sending an Application form is a breach of the Act and Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 as, apart from the information that the regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement. For the avoidance of any doubt section 3(1) of the 1983 regulations shows that, subject to certain limited exceptions, any copy of an unexecuted agreement must be a ‘true copy’. This means that it must be identical to the agreement as presented or sent to the debtor for signature."

 

thanks Taz11 This is really getting interesting now :grin:

Taz11 v NatWest/Triton: Unenforceable :D

Taz11 v BOS: Unenforceable :D

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Ummm, not sure I can remember now, Taz. I will have a look at my little hoard of snippets on Sunday and see if I have the reference. If not, I am sure a search will bring it up.

 

Yes, Lexis has certainly given Bank of Scotland and Halifax something to chew on :lol:

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Subbed

 

Hi Taz11, I'm going to follow this thread if you don't mind. I quite a bit behind you with the BOS, but I'm just reading as much as I can for what may happen with me in the future.

 

Good Luck, Mark

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Here you go Taz,

 

it is the last sentence on the post.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1906981.html

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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And in the following link there is a letter that you could use.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2024875.html

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I am sticking my nose in here because.....

 

I have an idea....

 

To increase the chances of any promissory note (loan agreement) being rendered unenforceable before it gets to court, why not consider this....

 

really play poker, knowing what's in their hand...

 

A loan agreement is in fact a promissory note... a bill of exchange if you will and it is worth money - more than you can imagine and forms the very basis of the 'manufacturing of fiat, worthless money'. You can see an explanation here in cartoon form The Crisis of Credit Visualized - it will explain a lot to you and open your eyes wide as to the true nature of bankers - ALL bankers... and might once and for all dispel the speculation that these agreements may or may not be available for photocopying.

 

It was reading one of the posts herein that gave me the thought... how can we get the bankers to send us a copy of our paper duly certified by a notary public upon their surety....... and offer to pay any reasonable cost... a notary should charge about £10 for a service like this.

 

If we can come up with the words to insist the banks follow this route, then they are screwed for they do not have the original paper for a notary public to copy.

 

THE VIDEO WILL TELL YOU WHY.

Worth exploring???

 

charlie

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  • 2 weeks later...

These people are an absolute farce.!! I have a letter in black and white stating they cannot and will not be enforcing the agreement, and then I get this. Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing???

 

Is there any point replying to this.??

 

thanks

 

TAZ11

 

letter21st.jpg

Taz11 v NatWest/Triton: Unenforceable :D

Taz11 v BOS: Unenforceable :D

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Another thing you can do is to make a complaint to the OFT using the letter drafted by Bankfodder in the following link. You might need to amend it slightly in respect of what you have received and what you are sending.

 

They will be unable to do anything in that you are an individual, however they do monitor the amount of complaints that come through and take action when it looks like the consumer is getting a raw deal.

 

In this instance, I would just send a copy of the letter you received from Rbos that says they know whilst they havent provided you with the document you requested they cant take enforcement action. Along with a copy of the letter from Blair Oliver and bundle it off to the OFT.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/50-complaint-in-respect-of-dca-threat-re-expired-debt/101-complaint-in-respect-of-invalid-cca-agreement.html

 

 

Blair, Oliver, Scott(minor but do not complain about the other scottish bank ;) ). Apologies for minor hijack but RBoS mentioned twice and they have nothing to do with this ;)

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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These people are an absolute farce.!! I have a letter in black and white stating they cannot and will not be enforcing the agreement, and then I get this. Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing???

 

Is there any point replying to this.??

 

thanks

 

TAZ11

 

letter21st.jpg

 

Personally, there is no point responding to this if they have already said that the debt is unenforceable.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Blair, Oliver, Scott(minor but do not complain about the other scottish bank ;) ). Apologies for minor hijack but RBoS mentioned twice and they have nothing to do with this ;)

 

No apology required. You are absolutely correct.:oops: Thank you.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Me too. But they said just because the debt is unenforceable does not mean that they will not pursue recovery using debt collector etc. Their logic is that they would not win in court but the debt exists so they are entitled to do what they want to recover it except go to court.

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You can report them to the OFT using BankFodder's letter in the following link.

 

The Consumer Forums - Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regs. 2008

 

It is letter number 2 that you need to send. Amend it to suit your situation.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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If the debt isn't being chased by a dca, does it just lay dormant for 6 years, or can it be cleared/wiped/returned to zero prior to that if the OC has admitted it cannot/will not be enforcing the debt??

 

I'm trying to get my head around a "terminated agreement" If the creditor has indeed terminated the account in writing and passed to a dca then I'm struggling to understand how the agreement is still valid if the account has been terminated???

 

What is the understanding of a terminated agreement ??

 

My very naive understanding is: I am trying to obtain a copy of the alleged agreement, the OC don't have it, therefore can't enforce. They decide to terminate the alleged agreement in writing, thus any agreement that was being disputed is now void/invalid ??? I'm a bit confused on this point??

 

thanks

 

Taz11

Taz11 v NatWest/Triton: Unenforceable :D

Taz11 v BOS: Unenforceable :D

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TBH Taz, I dont really understand that part of it myself. I "think" what it means is that it has only been terminated with the original creditor. The balance is then sold on. So long as you dont acknowledge / pay the debt to anyone for 6 years then it is statute barred.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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In which case would it not be a win win win situation???. The OC has terminated the agreement, therefore there is nothing relating the creditor to the debtor. The "balance", not the agreement is passed on to a DCA. The DCA definately don't have the original and no agreement for credit has been made with the debtor or the DCA, therefore no debt is owed to the dca. The account has been terminated and can't be re-opened if passed back to the OC by the dca???

 

Is my thinking correct or is it wishful thinking??

 

 

thanks

 

Taz11

Taz11 v NatWest/Triton: Unenforceable :D

Taz11 v BOS: Unenforceable :D

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Umm...... I like your thinking. It would be nice if someone could confirm one way or another. :D

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Hi CB, yh I'd really like to know if this is basically correct. The basis of my point being, if there is no agreement between the debtor and the dca what basis is there that any money is owed to them.

 

 

Its like me ringing you up and saying "hello Mr/Mrs CB, I'm Taz11 Collections, you now owe us £20,000, I can't prove you have to pay me as we have no agreement between us for credit, but I'll keep ringing and hassleing you until you wilt and decide to pay me, but if you don't I'll try to take you to court (even though I know I can't because there is no agreement between us, and if you don't pay there is bugger all to show that you should pay me the money) :-D:-D

Taz11 v NatWest/Triton: Unenforceable :D

Taz11 v BOS: Unenforceable :D

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