Is this Mint/RBS Advanta CCA enforceable?

[pebsham]

Interesting thread Millymollymoo (great name) I have an Advanta card only a few months older than yours but is an application form not a "reconstructed" agreement.

 

Maybe because mine came out of a complaint to the new CEO over not compliance on CCA request or SAR and because First credit referred to me as one of "the dregs"?

 

Mine's here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/184704-rbs-finally-sent-cca.html

 

peb

[millymollymoo]

Hey thanks for subscribing pebsham and welcome to my thread.

 

I got this cca from a section 78 request and took a while to come.Funny thing though I did a s.a.r a two years ago and they never sent the cca in that, everything else but no agreement. I am going to do another one and see what this produces as they have ignored my request for a copy larger than the credit card sized one sent and my request to view it.

 

Milly XX

[millymollymoo]

Hi andy:)

 

Well as steven has said , if this is the actual true copy of the agreement, then it would be enforceable as all the prescried terms are there. I however do not believe this is what I signed in 2000, suspicious of this I have asked to view the original and await their response. I also have asked for the original t&c's yet again . I do agree that if this was the original it would be full sized too like you do.

 

I have read and found out that these must not be referred to in a seperate document [of course the agreements say this, so that is one thing that could be challenged].

 

I believe that due to a word being wrong that my agreement is recreated [too much cutting and pasting proberbly!!!] and as I said await the answer to my request.

 

Legally in court if it comes to that then they would have to produce the original agreement due to the age of the account. I however would make sure that I did a cpr request and force their hand.

 

I am going to do another s.a.r request [i did one 2 years ago and they did NOT sendme the credit agreement]

 

This way I will know for sure as it HAS to be the true copy of the original.

 

Im with you though and extremely suspicious;)

 

 

Milly XX

[millymollymoo]

Hi would this apply in my case to do with the word CAN being used instead of CANNOT?

 

Unconscionability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

unconscionable adj. referring to a contract or bargain which is so unfair to a party that no reasonable or informed person would agree to it. In a suit for breach of contract, a court will not enforce an unconscionable contract (award damages or order specific performance) against the person unfairly treated on the theory that he/she was misled, lacked information, or signed under duress or misunderstanding. It is similar to an "adhesion contract," in which one party has taken advantage of a person dealing from weakness.

 

Contractual provisions that indicate gross one-sidedness in favor of the seller include provisions that limit damages against the seller, limit the rights of the purchaser to seek court relief against the seller. THIS BIT HERE INTERESTS ME AS IT INDICATES IN THE AGREEMENT THAT THY COULD STILL ENFORCE THE CONTRACT WITHOUT A COURT ORDER IF THEY MADE A MISTAKE

 

milly XX

Edited February 19, 2009 by millymollymoo

[Andybars]

One thing which i've noticed on my mint card in the small print is that where interest is calculated as less than 50 pence, there will be a minimum interest charge of 50 pence. Based upon that the APR stated on the agreement would be incorrect and I believe render the agreement unenforceable. If anybody more experienced has a view i'd love to hear it. I'm still at early stages having sent the CCA request to see if the bank have a copy too.

[danson79]

Well spotted - i'm keen to hear views on this too...

[Series3]

bump

 

are the terms and conditions supposed to be on the agreement?

and the right to cacel, can that be sent later?

 

just a little confused

[Series3]

P.S I wanted to say I enlarged this so called agreement. It is 1/4 the size of a A4 paper which I believe is a microfilm or something as it is tiny.

 

Milly X

 

more or less what they sent me....

they did blow them up for me though.

Am I right in thinking they have to have the original and not a microfish copy?

how did you dispute yours?

[Series3]

You around Milly?

[millymollymoo]

Hi sorry been busy working on BOS agreement!

 

I disputed mine because it is tiny and barely legible due to font size. I ahve requested a more legible copy and if not possible a viewing at branch near to me.

 

Also mine has a word discrepancy on the IMPORTANT- YOUR RIGHTS SECTION. This leads me to think it is reconstructed as the word CAN is typed instead of CANNOT, this itself makes the agreemeny 'improperly executed' and up to a judge to allow enforcement.

 

I understand that that is my signature on it but have doubts about it as certain sections are not there compared to similar agrements issued around the same time as mine.Also cannot understand why mine has no logo on it.

 

They also failed to send me a statement of account and historic t&c's.

 

Thats enough to keep them going;)

 

Milly X

[millymollymoo]

Ok received a letter in the post today from their solicitors Green & Co, oviously crossed with my recent letter sent as dated 17th mine was delivered to Triton on 18th march. [this was sent in response to their 2nd march letter and was a CPR 31 letter due to their threat of court action]

 

So they are blatantly ignoring my letters of 13th january regarding the tiny cca and non compliance and the telephone call to them on 2nd march when I rang them as I had received a NOTICE TO LEGAL PROCEEDINGS dated 25th feb, received 2nd march. They had said that they would reply to my letter, didnt though as passed straight to green and co:rolleyes:

 

Very unfair practices blatantly failing to respond to a reasonable request.

 

I will need to send a letter to these monkeys now.

 

I will postup what has been received and sent since the tiny cca and would welcome suggestions as what to put in the letter to Green and co.

 

Milly XX

[millymollymoo]

Hi I have put together a letter borrowing bits from other letters posted on here. Does this sound ok as I want to get this off asap as the green and co letter states court action despite them never responding to my letters.

 

here is the letter I received today. Just to recap they have NEVER RESPONDED PERSONALLY to any letters sent, 22nd december, 13th january or telephone call where they agreed to hold the account .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------

Green & Co

Kendal Court

Iron masters Way

Telford

TF3 4DT

 

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

 

 

Your Reference:

Client reference:

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

 

In reference to your recent communication I must advise you that the above account is currently in lawful and reasonable dispute since xx xxxxxxx 2008 and that neither Royal Bank of Scotland or Triton Credit Services have supplied me with the correct documentation which I am legally entitled to after several requests.

 

They have also chosen not to respond to any of my letters dated xx xxxx 2008, xxxxxx 2009 and in a telephone call xxxxxx 2009 to Triton Credit Services agreed to keep the account on hold after confirming they would respond to my letters, therefore see by instructing you to act as extremely vexatious and must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as your clients, Royal Bank of Scotland are a large financial organisation and should be fully aware of compliance with the Consumer Credit Act, not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998.

 

As Royal Bank of Scotland and Triton Credit Services are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines and s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the Royal Bank of Scotland for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as the Royal Bank of Scotland cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities and would like to point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

If the Royal bank of Scotland chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement and persist with its threats of legal action as stated in your letter, I will welcome the opportunity for a judge to look at Royal Bank of Scotland’s unfulfilled legal request in relation to this matter. Given the lack of compliance on this legal request by the Royal Bank of Scotland, you should note that court action would not be a ‘simple option’ as you imply in your letter and would clearly be an abuse of the judical system and pre-action protocols that have clearly not been adhered to.

 

I will also file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

Therefore as I am currently awaiting further information which, depending upon it’s content, Court action may be instigated on my part therefore I suggest you seek advice from your client and/or await the outcome of any possible Court proceedings.

 

Furthermore, I may also report you to the Solicitors Regulation Authority regarding your unprofessional conduct in sending threatening correspondence whilst not in possession of the full facts of this dispute.

 

 

 

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

I will post the two letters up proceeding from triton and green and co, damn scanners acting up at the mo:rolleyes:

 

 

Milly XX

Edited March 21, 2009 by millymollymoo
added letter

[millymollymoo]

ok just to recap they have NEVER RESPONDED PERSONALLY to any letters.

 

I have been sent non personal template rubbish. I received this on 2nd march and telephoned them as you can see I wrote at the top of the letter.

 

 

[millymollymoo]

I telephoned them as you can see above, no response received so sent this on 16th march which has crossed with the GREEN & Co letter.

 

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss259/millymollymoo1/minta1.jpg

 

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss259/millymollymoo1/minta2.jpg

 

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss259/millymollymoo1/minta3.jpg

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss259/millymollymoo1/minta4.jpg

 

 

then I received the GREEN & Co letter. The account had been placed in dispute before Xmas.

 

 

So could you help with the letter posted in response in post 38 and see what may need to be cut out as I may be waffling again!!!

 

milly XX

[citizenB]

MMM, it would seem to me that you have sent many letters requesting information, or at the very least a response to the letters you have sent.

 

IMHO, I would be going on the offensive, sending either of the following letters.

 

First one was prepared for Lexis 200 by X20. I think I have seen a kind of mishmash of one his letters you have already sent. You will find the letter X20 wrote in the following link. Read it carefully and amend where necessary.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1800199.html

 

Alternatively a short, sharp letter as follows:

 

"I am surprised you have been asked to administer this account as it is in dispute with XXXX and has been since XX XXXX XXXX they have failed to provide information that would allow me to assess whether or not I do have any liability to them.

 

It would appear that we are now in a deadlock. Therefore, I commend the genuine attempt to resolve a dispute by putting your case before a Judge. I accept that this matter has now reached an impasse with both parties apparently having equally strong views about the merits or otherwise of the case.

 

I welcome the opportunity to let the courts decide and look forward to receipt of the papers with great interest. I will also expect a properly executed Regulated Credit Card Agreement that contains all of the Prescribed Terms within the four corners of it, attached to the claim form.

 

Yours faithfully"

 

HTH,

[underdog13]

I note that Triton say you would be liable for costs - isn't that for the judge to decide?

[millymollymoo]

I note that Triton say you would be liable for costs - isn't that for the judge to decide?

 

 

Didn't notice that one. Blerdy cheek I say. Of course they think that completely ignoring a valid dispute is gonna go their way if and when it goes to court:roll:

 

by thw way I sent this yesterday. Mish mash of citizensb's short one as I have already sent a mish mash of the civil procedure rules letter to triton BEFORE I received green & co's.

 

------------------------------------------

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

I refer to your letter of xxxx, 2009 which was received xxxxxx, 2009.

I am surprised you have been asked to administer this account, as I must advise you that the above account is currently in lawful and reasonable dispute with the Royal Bank of Scotland and Triton Credit Services and has been since xxxxxx,2008, as they have failed to supply me with the correct documentation which I am legally entitled to after several requests and that would allow me to assess whether or not I do have any liability to them.

As your clients, Royal Bank of Scotland and Triton Credit Services have chosen to ignore my dispute by their unfulfilled compliance with my legal request in relation to this matter and are now clearly attempting enforcement by instructing your firm to commence legal action as stated in your letter.

It would appear that we are now in a deadlock. Therefore, I commend the genuine attempt to resolve a dispute by putting your case before a Judge where as well as your client’s non-compliance with The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, and total disregard for, both the banking code and OFT guidelines, will have the opportunity to be looked at.

I accept that this matter has now reached an impasse with both parties apparently having equally strong views about the merits or otherwise of the case. I welcome the opportunity to let the courts decide and look forward to receipt of the papers with great interest.

I will also expect a properly executed Regulated Credit Card Agreement with my signature that contains all of the Prescribed Terms and legal rights within the four corners of it along with any document referred to within the agreement, attached to the claim form.

 

I trust this outlines my position clearly enough for you

 

Yours faithfully

-----------------------------------------

 

 

Milly XXX

[citizenB]

That looks good to me MMM:)

[danson79]

Hi Milly,

 

Just to clarify (in case you didn't know) RBS, Triton and Greens are all under the same roof. And, perhaps leave the last part out - you don't need to tell them exactly what you require from them anymore. They have your previous requests.

 

Have you sent RBS a full SAR yet? If you haven't, PM me for a 'no wriggle room' template.

 

I would also be inclined to send the RBS minions at Tritons/Greens a letter containing the following:

 

Take Notice, that you (INSERT DCA NAME) have been served with a formal Notice under Section 10, Section 12 of The Data Protection Act 1998, (“the Act”) to cease, desist from unlawfully processing my personal subject data to third parties, together with the fact that I have formally withdrawn my alleged consent from BANK NAME HERE, which is my right under that same Act, to process my personal subject data. You are processing data about me which is ‘not true’ it is unjustified, unwarranted and defamatory. Together with the fact: that you continue to process my subject data whilst, I am in dispute with Royal Bank of Scotland which is in Default under Section 78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

• You may not demand any payment, on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

 

• You may not add any further interest or charges to this account

 

• You may not pass this account to a third party.

 

• You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies

 

• You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

 

You (Royal Bank of Scotland) are in breach of The Data Protection Act 1998.

Edited March 24, 2009 by danson79

[millymollymoo]

That looks good to me MMM:)

 

 

Thank you for the help Citizen. I tend to ramble on and the point of my letter seems to get lost:roll:

 

I have just checked on royal mail and its got there and been signed for:)

Milly XX

[millymollymoo]

Hi Milly,

 

Just to clarify (in case you didn't know) RBS, Triton and Greens are all under the same roof. And, perhaps leave the last part out - you don't need to tell them exactly what you require from them anymore. They have your previous requests.

 

Have you sent RBS a full SAR yet? If you haven't, PM me for a 'no wriggle room' template.

 

I would also be inclined to send the RBS minions at Tritons/Greens a letter containing the following:

 

Take Notice, that you (INSERT DCA NAME) have been served with a formal Notice under Section 10, Section 12 of The Data Protection Act 1998, (“the Act”) to cease, desist from unlawfully processing my personal subject data to third parties, together with the fact that I have formally withdrawn my alleged consent from BANK NAME HERE, which is my right under that same Act, to process my personal subject data. You are processing data about me which is ‘not true’ it is unjustified, unwarranted and defamatory. Together with the fact: that you continue to process my subject data whilst, I am in dispute with Royal Bank of Scotland which is in Default under Section 78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

• You may not demand any payment, on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

 

• You may not add any further interest or charges to this account

 

• You may not pass this account to a third party.

 

• You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies

 

• You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

 

You (Royal Bank of Scotland) are in breach of The Data Protection Act 1998.

 

 

hiya danson:-) thanks for comimg by:-)

 

I did a s.a.r in 2007 and no credit agreement was produced. I would like to do another one and would be grateful if you could send me a detailed one[ want to get this right!]

 

I posted up on the consumer credit agreement thread about the APR being completely different yet the SAME monthly rate and am awaiting an answer about that. A bid odd if the APR is different don't ya think?? That with the CAN instead of CANNOT enforce the agreement under my right section also really makes me think this agreement is not all as seems;-)

 

I will borrow {thankyou!] the letter and get that off to Triton. Do you know its quite funny about Triton and Mint as in January I sent them both seperate letters on by recorded and they were BOTH signed by RBS on the same docket!!

 

Thanks for your help. Please keep checking in!

 

Milly XXX

[millymollymoo]

This is good to remember:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2061104.html

 

 

Coyuld someone offer an opinion here;

 

On my alleged mint agreement I am confused as to the rates it shows and wonder how the two apr shown below which are different can produce the same monthly rate:confused:

 

The rate of interest we charge, and the equivalent APRs are shown below:

 

for purchases including 'transfer and save' rate we charge p/m APR

Until 1 June 2001 0.242% fixed 2.9%

From 2 June 2001 1.385% variable 17.9%

For all advances from the start 1.385% variable 20.4%

 

For each advance we will charge you 2% of the value of the advance or £1.50 whichever is more.

 

 

-----------------

 

Now I presume 'advance' means cash but does not say that word????

 

 

Is the APR wrong?????????????

 

 

Milly XXX

__________________

[car2403]

This is good to remember:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2061104.html

 

 

Coyuld someone offer an opinion here;

 

On my alleged mint agreement I am confused as to the rates it shows and wonder how the two apr shown below which are different can produce the same monthly rate:confused:

 

The rate of interest we charge, and the equivalent APRs are shown below:

 

for purchases including 'transfer and save' rate we charge p/m APR

Until 1 June 2001 0.242% fixed 2.9%

From 2 June 2001 1.385% variable 17.9%

For all advances from the start 1.385% variable 20.4%

 

For each advance we will charge you 2% of the value of the advance or £1.50 whichever is more.

 

 

-----------------

 

Now I presume 'advance' means cash but does not say that word????

 

 

Is the APR wrong?????????????

 

 

Milly XXX

__________________

 

It's normally to do with interest free periods.

 

APR is a calculation to show the comparison, in interest and charges terms, this advance has against other loans/credit cards, etc.

 

Where there's an interest free period, this effects the amount of interest paid on the same amount.

 

For instance, cash advances may fall in to the normal credit use of your card, (even though there are cash advance fees) which are covered by the interest fee period, but balance transfers may not attract the same interest free period. (Or vice versa!)

 

It gets quite complicated, but all this data would be needed to verify the APR quoted/charged is correct.

[millymollymoo]

Hi Car:) thanks for your help, still confused and it don't take much

 

Just adding this for ref:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/186081-egg-ccj-form-arived.html#post2064908

 

Milly X

[saracens]

Hi Guys,

This is my first attempt at joining the forums. I hope I'm not intruding on this thread, but can anyone tell me if my CCA with Mint/RBS Avanta is enforceable please? Mine is from 1997 and they have sent me a copy of the application form, which was to RBS Avanta at the time. Is there any mileage in the fact that they haven't sent the reverse page which is where they are referring to various terms & conditions? I need to go home & check out if it's a cut and paste job, cos they only just made it within the time limit! Thanks so far...