Why is no one claiming the contractual rate of interest???

[debt_mountain]

redsue, have you seen the info I got from Nationwide today, witness statement and bundle. I will add more of the actual wording tomorrow as I don't have time at the moment.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nationwide/35933-debt_mountain-nationwide-pt2-last-post.html

[sarahpp]

Hi everyone,

 

We had all three of our claims settled in full yesterday (hearing was shceduled for today) - including contractual (compounded) interest at Lloyds' unauthorised borrowing rate of 29.85%. This is possibly the first occasion on the forum that Lloyds have had a contractual interest claim to pay. If you are interested in reading up on what happened then this post here will be a relevant palce to start as it was when I discovered I had some money credited to my account - without any prior communication from them.

 

Lucid

 

Fantastic Lucid - I think that you were one of the first "contractual pioneers" weren't you?

[lucid]

Fantastic Lucid - I think that you were one of the first "contractual pioneers" weren't you?

 

Possibly with Lloyds yes - I think there's been quite a few people with other banks now who have had contractual interest paid to them.

 

Lucid

[redsue]

Hi Debtmountain, yes thanks for that, makes for interesting reading, much appreciated

Lucid - well done, I'm so pleased for you both I've been watching your case from afar.

Maybe one of the Mods could possibly set up a Contractual Interest Success thread. People who have been successful could then set up links to their own threads - - just a suggestion

I've been finding it quite difficult when swotting up on my own case (contractual at 24.9%) as I'm sure other people have.

[millymollymoo]

Hi can anyone help this poor girl here with her defense from Cap One

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/62936-offer-capital-one.html

 

Milly X

[TideTurner]

Can't see any mention of interest here!

 

Single mum wins back £23,000 in bank charges for friends and family | the Mail on Sunday

[Gezuwit]

Hello all, I've been reading this thread with eager interest and got to about page 20 only to realise there are still about 40 more pages to go!

 

I'm currently at the Prelim Letter stage but I want to include contractual interest because I feel that the bank has gained money DIRECTLY from the UNLAWFUL charges applied onto my account and resultantly through their lofty interest rates. Since I am claiming back my "misappropriated" money I seek to apply exactly the same rates of interest that I agreed to (when I assumed they were conducting their business lawfully) whilst considering how much money they have 'earned' in interest using my money.

 

Anyways...I have three accounts with Halifax: a credit card, a current account and a cardcash account. I see it as HALIFAX owes me the money, regardless of the account it comes from. However, I would like to include contractual interest in all my claims but there seems to be a few snags....

 

The spreadsheets I have used so far are Vampiress' Advanced Excel Credit Card Spreadsheet (England) for the Credit Card and Mindzai's Compound Contractual Interest Spreadsheet v1.9 for the others. They're both absolutely fantastic - so BIG UP for the efforts you both put in to make them. I've got 5 niggling questions that I would...

 

1. Is it correct to assume that I can also claim contractual interest on the credit card account (instead of the 8 % statutory fee) and if so can that be compounded? If the answer to both these question is YES, is there a suitable spreadsheet or would I have to make my own using the figures that Vampiress' spreadsheet kindly affords me?

 

2. On my cardcash account I do not have an arranged overdraft, which means on Mindzai's spreadsheet it does not seem to put forward any figures for the 'Interest Paid on Penalties' column (whereas on Vampiress' spreadsheet for Bank Account charges it did...). I can't seem to work out which is correct, however, the bank has used the fact that I was charged and went into an unauthorised overdraft to debit some interest the following month. Although the amount each time was very little (I never went more than £ 80 in the red), the interest rate that led to the interest charges (highest one was £1.10) was VERY HIGH = 2.20 % per month thats...29.8 % EAR. Now from this, does it figure that since they have charged me that high rate when I went into an unauthorised o/d that I can apply the same rate on money that I feel has wrongfully been in their possession for all this time??? I mean...I don't know if it is worth it because the interest I've paid on the account since its opening amounts to only £4.60, but am I right in pursuing my principles?) If not, this leads me to another question....

 

3. Although there is a contractual rate of interest agreed by both parties and I am fully in my right (I believe) to claim back at the same rate. I would be just as willing to reduce my rate as a 'gesture of good will' to something maybe as low as 15 % to reflect any changes to their rates that may have occured over the years. Would this stand up in court? If I'm prepared to reduce it to a rate that's higher than the sec69 8 % but lower than thier rates...is this a valid approach or is it more black and white??

 

4. An IMPORTANT question is that of what I'm actually claiming...as I said earlier...I feel my case is with Halifax (not any of their subsidiary companies, etc). So when I send my Prelim letter (with contractual interest added to the claim) PLUS when it comes to putting forward the court claims - will I be putting forward three separate claims or can I make an all-encompassing claim and ask for the lot back (with a breakdown of where all the elements of the claim stem from?)

 

5. Related to the question above...would it be possible to use different paradigms for different accounts when assembling a claim. Eg (no compound contractual interest, just statutory interest for the credit card and vice versa for the other two accounts?) Or would you have to apply the same rules across the board?

 

I'm sorry for the lengthy post...I hope my queries are sensible and relevant, if not please excuse me for being a nitwit!

 

I would appreciate any help anyone has on my issues and I will be happy to pass on my spreadsheets if anyone is willing to check that they are functioning correctly (there seems to be a few of those "#REF!" things in the Interest sections of my spreadsheets!)

 

I am set to get back a decent amount of money (about £2000) if this all goes to plan and I will be donating a nice proportion of it to this website to thank you all for your guidance and superb advice. So thanks in advance for any assistance you are able to give on this matter.

[sowerby17]

i dont even begin to understand the contractural interest. i did my claim off one of the spreadsheets from this site but i am sure that it was only 8%. why is this

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, Gezuwit

 

Welcome to CAG! and well done you for coming to ask for advice before you get too far down the road.

 

A few ideas for you - which you mustn't take as gospel. But they're intended to help. They should show up in red.

 

Hello all, I've been reading this thread with eager interest and got to about page 20 only to realise there are still about 40 more pages to go! :D

 

I'm currently at the Prelim Letter stage but I want to include contractual interest because I feel that the bank has gained money DIRECTLY from the UNLAWFUL charges applied onto my account and resultantly through their lofty interest rates. Since I am claiming back my "misappropriated" money I seek to apply exactly the same rates of interest that I agreed to initially (when I assumed they were conducting their business lawfully) when considering how much money they have 'earned' through interest using my money. That's absolutely the right attitude to take. Get back what is lawfully yours.

 

Anyways...I have three accounts with Halifax: a credit card, a current account and a cardcash account. I see it as HALIFAX owes ME the money, regardless of the account it comes from. However, I would like to include contractual interest in all my claims but there seems to be a few snags....

 

The spreadsheets I have used so far are Vampiress' Advanced Excel Credit Card Spreadsheet (England) for the Credit Card and Mindzai's Compound Contractual Interest Spreadsheet v1.9 for the others. They're both absolutely fantastic - so BIG UP for the efforts you both put in to make them. I'm just wondering....

 

1. Is it correct to assume that I can also claim contractual interest on the credit card account (instead of the 8 % statutory fee) and if so can that be compounded? If the answer to both these question is YES, is there a suitable spreadsheet or would I have to make my own using the figures that Vampiress' spreadsheet kindly affords me? Yes and Yes. I downloaded Vamp's contractual interest spready onto Excel. I then had to locate and copy the formula for contractual interest and copy and paste it down the relevant column. It saved a lot of time and trouble. If you want to follow how I managed to sort things out, go to (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-our-forum/37540-help-vampiress.html). It gets better at post 10.

 

2. On my cardcash account I do not have an arranged overdraft, which means on does Mindzai's spreadsheet it does not seem to put forward any figures for the 'Interest Paid on Penalties' column (whereas on Vampiress' spreadsheet for Bank Account charges it did...). I can't seem to work out which is correct, however, the bank has used the fact that I was charged and went into an unauthorised overdraft to debit some interest the following month. Although the amount each time was very little (I never went more than £ 80 in the red), the interest rate that led to the interest charges (highest one was £1.10) was VERY HIGH = 2.20 % per month thats...29.8 % EAR. Now from this, does it figure that since they have charged me that high rate when I went into an unauthorised o/d that I can apply the same rate on money that I feel has wrongfully been in their possession for all this time??? I mean...I don't know if it is worth it because the interest I've paid on the account since its opening amounts to only £4.60, but am I right in pursuing my principles?) If not, this leads me to another question.... Broadly, I'd say yes.

 

3. Although there is a contractual rate of interest agreed by both parties and I am fully in my right (I believe) to claim back at the same rate. I would be just as willing to reduce my rate as a 'gesture of good will' to something maybe as low as 15 % to reflect any changes to their rates that may have occured over the years. Would this stand up in court? If I'm prepared to reduce it to a rate that's higher than the sec69 8 % but lower than thier rates...is this a valid approach or is it more black and white??

USE A CONTRACTUAL RATE. I think this is very important. People who have tried 'averaging' have inevitably found themselves with problems. You have to argue in depth how you came to that rate, the factors involved, why you didn't consider X,Y and Z. It's tortuous and fraught with problems - you could even lose a case on it. Stick to a rate - authorised, unauthorised - that you can explain quickly and easily.

 

4. An IMPORTANT question is that of what I'm actually claiming...as I said earlier...I feel my case is with Halifax (not any of their subsidiary companies, etc). So when I send my Prelim letter (with contractual interest added to the claim) PLUS when it comes to putting forward the court claims - will I be putting forward three separate claims or can I make an all-encompassing claim and ask for the lot back (with a breakdown of where all the elements of the claim stem from?) I see no reason why you can't ask for all three in one. You may prefer, however, to go for one - the smallest or simplest, perhaps? - to begin with and then use the money to fund the others. Your choice but, so long as the defendant's the same (MAKE SURE IT IS - the credit card co could be different from the account co) in each case, there's nothing to stop you doing all three in one if you wish.

 

5. Related to the question above...would it be possible to use different paradigms for different accounts when assembling a claim. Eg (no compound contractual interest, just statutory interest for the credit card and vice versa for the other two accounts?) Or would you have to apply the same rules across the board? One set of rules for each case. Which ,may be a reason for having three.

 

I'm sorry for the lengthy post...I hope my queries are sensible and relevant, if not please excuse me for being a nitwit!

 

I would appreciate any help anyone has on my issues and I will be happy to pass on my spreadsheets if anyone is willing to check that they are functioning correctly (there seems to be a few of those "#REF!" things in the Interest sections of my spreadsheets!) That's usually as a result of either numbers that are too big to fit in the cell (make sure you're only going to two decimal places, max) or the formula is relating to somewhere it shouldn't. Highlight the cell and see what the formula is actually saying.

 

I am set to get back a decent amount of money (about £2000) if this all goes to plan and I will be donating a nice proportion of it to this website to thank you all for your guidance and superb advice. So thanks in advance for any assistance you are able to give on this matter.

 

You're welcome

 

W

[natwesttookmymoney]

i dont even begin to understand the contractural interest. i did my claim off one of the spreadsheets from this site but i am sure that it was only 8%. why is this

 

i have absolutely no idea.

Which spreadsheet did you use? Was it the 8% or did you use contractual compound throughout?

Did you enter 8% as the rate or did you just leave it as is?

Did you file your claim before the discussion on contractual interest got going?

 

W

[bill-k]

I've put some links in post #1205 above that might be useful. Reconstituted Excel versions of Vamp's #5 & #16 spreadies are there if you're not too good at spready formulae.

 

EDIT: I regret these have been withdrawn due to lack of CAG support.

[ladybird17]

Thank you bill-k - we dummies like someone who can do an "idiots guide"!

[natwesttookmymoney]

Thank you bill-k - we dummies like someone who can do an "idiots guide"!

 

That told me, then

:grin:

[bill-k]

Ooooops !! Er - sorry. ;-)

[Gezuwit]

Hey...many thanks NatWest! your advice is MUCH appreciated. I know it wasn't meant to be taken as gospel but...in answer to your comments:

 

1. That's great thanks...I'll have a look at it tomorrow (its Friday night and I require a beer!) Is it OK to post any questions to you? By the way, were you successful in your claim?

 

2. OK. Incorporating your answer to 5. I guess I will be using the contractual rate for each account regardless. However, I still can't figure out why my the interest charges that I have incurred will not appear in the final column - has it got anything to do with the fact that I have entered £0.00 in the 'Overdraft' column (remember the cardcash a/c does not have an o/d facility but will charge you an interest of around 30 % if you become overdrawn)??!?!? Anyone with any ideas?

 

3. Thanks for the clarification - all the better !

 

4. I want to claim it all in one lump some, I'm just foreseeing problems with the fact that the credit card is 'detached' from normal accounts...however, SURELY....they are all under and and contribute to increasing the money in HALIFAX's coffers!?!? Consequently...I surely should make my claim against HALIFAX. Will this cause any legal complications or can I argue this in court?

 

5. See 3. and 2.

 

Thanks for getting me started...You've been a great help.

 

sorry for askin lots of questions - it's the only way I can be confident when it comes to court time!! And once again thanks for any input...you're all great here!

[bill-k]

Thanks for gettin' back Gezuwit. Got me out of trouble.

While you're in the pub, buy Westy a beer, won't ya !!

[e28bigalbexley]

Hiya Bill good to see you took some time off for a nice sleep.

[Mindzai]

2. OK. Incorporating your answer to 5. I guess I will be using the contractual rate for each account regardless. However, I still can't figure out why my the interest charges that I have incurred will not appear in the final column - has it got anything to do with the fact that I have entered £0.00 in the 'Overdraft' column (remember the cardcash a/c does not have an o/d facility but will charge you an interest of around 30 % if you become overdrawn)??!?!? Anyone with any ideas?

 

If you would like me to take a llok at your sheet, sned me a PM and I will give you my email address.

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, Gezuwit (is the G soft, BTW??)

 

1. Mindzai knows his way round spreadies pretty well - he created quite a few of them. He knows better than I.

 

2. My claim is not yet concluded (grumble, mutter)

 

3. Feel free to post questions but I would recommend that you do it in your own thread. That way, you will get more than one perspective on your issues. Contrary to the beliefs in some circles, I don't actually know everything! (See ans 1 above). :o

 

By all means post your thread name in this one, so's I'll see it.

 

W

[Gezuwit]

Hello all,

 

Yo bill, who's Westy? I ended up drinkin all his pints too...once i realised he wasn't coming:). By the way, Gezuwit stems from my name - Gerard/Gez (so the G's soft).

 

Thank's Mindzai for the offer, I'll PM u immediately!

 

I haven't actually started off my thread yet, I'll start one off though. It just seems like my queries are mainly related to this contractual interest business!

 

So...Natwest, havin a look at your thread I couldn't really work out how to go about making Vampiress' spreadsheet compound the interest (sorry for being a dumb-ass!!) I've also seen in other threads that Vamp has already made a compound contractual interest spreadsheet (but I can't seem to find that - or maybe I'm just being thick).

 

I understand that Mindzai's spready compounds the interest and allows you to enter the contractual interest rate - excellent! But so far I've understood this to be only valid for bank accounts - NOT credit cards.

 

Out of curiosity - could anyone explain why there is this discrepancy between credit cards and bank accounts?

 

At the moment..I'm using Vampiress's spready for my Credit Card, if you were to make that a compounded contractual interest spready - you would change the 8 % value to the contractual interest rate - right? Now...to make it compounded you should just apply the interest rate formula to the cumulative charge total + any interest that's added on as it accumulates - is that right?

 

Apologies if I'm still postin this in the wrong forum, I will post my next one my own thread - Gezuwit vs Halifax (compound contractual interest claim)!

 

Cheers.

[Carlitos_Way]

Quick question:

 

I'm with Halifax, should I be claiming Interest debited on my account?

 

Its listed after each "Charges as Notified".

:-|

[lucid]

Hi Gezuwit,

 

The problem isn't in compounding the interest for the credit card spreadsheet, but for calculating the interest paid on penalties because there are different rules for different credit cards. For example some credit cards give you interest-free on balance transfers but not on new purchases - but not all of them do this. This means that the spreadsheet won't be able to calculate as accurate results for overdraft interest as the bank one does - meaning that the bank could have more to argue about.

 

Also you mention that changing Vampiress's spreadsheet rate from 8% to the contractual interest rate wil calculate compound interest. This is wrong because Vampiress's spreadhseets that were designed for statutory interest calculate the interest as simple - not compound.

 

Lucid

[lucid]

Quick question:

 

I'm with Halifax, should I be claiming Interest debited on my account?

 

Its listed after each "Charges as Notified".

:-|

 

You can claim back the portion of interest that only exists because of charges - but not all of the interest ever paid. The spreadsheets give you a good estimate of what you can claim back.

 

Lucid

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hello all,

 

Yo bill, who's Westy? I ended up drinkin all his pints too...once i realised he wasn't coming:). Would have helped if you'd told me WHICH Red Lion - there are thousands in England!! By the way, Gezuwit stems from my name - Gerard/Gez (so the G's soft). But not religious - nothng to do with the Jesuits, then?

 

Thank's Mindzai for the offer, I'll PM u immediately! Very wise. He's the spready king right now.

 

I haven't actually started off my thread yet, I'll start one off though. It just seems like my queries are mainly related to this contractual interest business!

 

So...NatWest, havin a look at your thread I couldn't really work out how to go about making Vampiress' spreadsheet compound the interest AH, well, never mind., You're in touch with Mindzai anyway. (sorry for being a dumb-ass!!) I've also seen in other threads that Vamp has already made a compound contractual interest spreadsheet (but I can't seem to find that - or maybe I'm just being thick). No. Vamp has removed a lot of spreadies while she revises them.

 

I understand that Mindzai's spready compounds the interest and allows you to enter the contractual interest rate - excellent! But so far I've understood this to be only valid for bank accounts - NOT credit cards. Don't see why, other than the argument about purchases/transfers/cash advances. Just find out which one applies to yours, I would have thought.

 

Out of curiosity - could anyone explain why there is this discrepancy between credit cards and bank accounts?

 

At the moment..I'm using Vampiress's spready for my Credit Card, if you were to make that a compounded contractual interest spready - you would change the 8 % value to the contractual interest rate - right? Now...to make it compounded you should just apply the interest rate formula to the cumulative charge total + any interest that's added on as it accumulates - is that right? Er....no. Maybe. Probably not. Not sure I understand your thinking. Hope Mindzai's put you right on that one.

 

Apologies if I'm still postin this in the wrong forum, I will post my next one my own thread - Gezuwit vs Halifax (compound contractual interest claim)!

 

Cheers.

 

Hope that helped....

 

Westy

[Gezuwit]

Cheers for the help Lucid - sorry if I come come across patronising (not my intention)...

 

Hi Gezuwit,

 

The problem isn't in compounding the interest for the credit card spreadsheet, but for calculating the interest paid on penalties because there are different rules for different credit cards. For example some credit cards give you interest-free on balance transfers but not on new purchases - but not all of them do this. This means that the spreadsheet won't be able to calculate as accurate results for overdraft interest as the bank one does - meaning that the bank could have more to argue about.

 

I understand this - that's why I have used Vampiress' advanced credit card spreadsheet. Correct me if i'm wrong but I think I'm lucky because I have never done any balance transfers nor have i used my credit card to withdraw cash, all my transactions have purely been purchases! therefore all the interest I've previously paid is a result of all the purchases (and charges) so mine should therefore be a little easier to work out (I think!).

 

Also you mention that changing Vampiress's spreadsheet rate from 8% to the contractual interest rate wil calculate compound interest. This is wrong because Vampiress's spreadhseets that were designed for statutory interest calculate the interest as simple - not compound.

 

I also know this, I was going through the steps that would ned to be done to change her spready to one that calculates compound interest at the contractual rate (hope this makes sense). So that was just the first step (acknowledging the contractual rate). The following steps were my attempt to factor in a compounded rate - would that be the way I would do it.

 

Heads are probably getting confused now, so I guess I'll try and make the amendments and see if anyone is willing to check my spready.