Why is no one claiming the contractual rate of interest???

[paulwilko]

Hi I hope someone can have a quick look at this.. i am in the middle of filling in my contractual interest N1 for capital one credit card. i have had a bit of help which i am grateful for , could someone let me know if the following paragraphs currently in my poc is correct for a credit card acct.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on unauthorised drawings from the account. The Claimant holds that this applies to unauthorised drawings by the Defendant as well as to unauthorised drawings by the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s annual interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on authorised drawings from the account. The Claimants hold that this applies to authorised drawings by the Defendant as well as to authorised drawings by the Claimants. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimants claim the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s authorised overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

many thanks paul

[ozmrr]

Thanks for the input guys, I have used the contractual rate for Barclays (unauthorised) of 24.8% and written my letter - preliminary letter for payment.

I have gone beyond the 6 years as well so will see how it goes.

[bill-k]

Good going, Ozmrr. Just make sure that the spready you're using is one that calculates compound interest and not simple. Then go for it !!

[sarahpp]

Well, we now have the defence document from the Halifax regarding our claim. They have already paid up the charges + interest at 8%. The portion of the defence claim which relates to the contractual interest (which is the only thing they are refusing to pay) states:

 

"The balance of the claim relates to contractual interest claimed by the claimant at 29.9%. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to claim interest at this rate and the Claimant is put to strict proof regarding this element of the claim".

 

Would have been nice if they had got the gender correct on the defence form but, you can't have everything (!)

 

They have offered neither an explanation for this stance or an alternative.

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, Sarah

 

" They have offered neither an explanation for this stance or an alternative."

 

Afraid it's not up to them to explain or offer an alternative - it's up to you to prove your claim.

 

I think, guys, it's time to get our collective thinking caps on as this looks like becoming a trend - banks pay charges plus 8% and defend the balance.

 

We have good arguments for contractual/unauthorised but I think we need a killer app, as they say in the computer world.

 

What think ye?

 

Westy

[ladybird17]

Hi all of you clever interest worker-outers on here - and I am taking this thread back to the original question about why people aren't claiming contractual. This may be a reason why....both a friend & I are trying to claim contractual - when you go to the templates it directs you to Vampiress. Now sometimes, when you click the "England Advanced Excel" for claiming compounded contractual, it takes you to the Google home page for Docs & Spreadhseets, sometimes it brings you up an actual spreadsheet, but it doesn't necessarilly bring you up the same spreadsheet that your friend got when he clicked exactly the same button at pretty much exactly the same time. If you have never used spreadsheets before, or have little experience, some of the guidance notes are a bit mind blowing. This is NOT a criticism - just maybe one of the reasons people are put off by it. Not everyone on the site is a whizz wth understanding percentages, and not everyone is experienced at spreadsheets, so I am sugesting that this might be a reason why... (please don't all shout at me at once!)

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, Ladybird

 

No shouting at all - I think you have a point.

 

Have a look

at my thread entitled 'Help! Vampiress' (get it by clicking on my name to the left of the box, follow through to 'all threads started by this member' and you'll find it there). SOme of your questions will be answered therein.

 

What I did was copy Vampiress' format onto an Excel spreadsheet. Works very well for me. Let me know if you want any help.

 

W

[ladybird17]

Thanks nwtookmymoney. I have had a quick look at your Help Vampiress thread and others. Now I do use Excel from time to time, but only for the most basic of basic calculations. I have used a PC both at work & at home for around 15 years -I am certainly no expert, but can usually find my way around. However, when I see things like "I just copied Vampiress' spreadsheet into Excel" and "if you change the value in the cell below the....etc.etc." I'm afraid my eyes start to glaze over! So I can imagine this must be happening to a lot of others - unless I am the thickest person here, which frankly, is a possibility we should not rule out! So I am going to have a go at doing a spreadsheet over the next few days, and will I'm sure, be taking up your offer of help - which is GREATLY appreciated.

[Guest Battleaxe]

Ladybird,

 

We often make the mistake that everyone has the same level of understanding. I am far better at demonstrating how to do it, than writing a manual on how to do it, this is why I use Vamps No 2 spreadsheet and no other. it is very simple. You don't have to have a monthly balance or anything like that, just copy your detail ins and the sheet does the rest. I have noticed the problem it takes a little bit of time toi update the sheet, I think it has to do with ISP's and and the volume of traffic on line. I am on broadband out in the sticks and some nights it can be slow, especially when trying to enter data on spread sheet. I dont copy into excel, I just do it on line. If you didn;t live so far away, i would come over and sit with you while you fill the spreadsheet in.

 

Maybe if you pm me, I can give you my phone number and I will talk you through it as you complete the sheet.

[sarahpp]

Hi, Sarah

 

" They have offered neither an explanation for this stance or an alternative."

 

Afraid it's not up to them to explain or offer an alternative - it's up to you to prove your claim.

 

I think, guys, it's time to get our collective thinking caps on as this looks like becoming a trend - banks pay charges plus 8% and defend the balance.

 

We have good arguments for contractual/unauthorised but I think we need a killer app, as they say in the computer world.

 

What think ye?

 

Westy

 

Hi Westy

 

Just to clarify

 

Are you saying that you don't believe that we should use CPR 16.5 (2) in a request for a strike out?

 

:-? = me, most of the time

[Guest bong]

sarah, isn't their alternative the 8% they've paid?

[natwesttookmymoney]

"Are you saying that you don't believe that we should use CPR 16.5 (2) in a request for a strike out? "

 

That reminds me of an advert for (I think it was) Stella Artois on the telly. It used a spoof Hungarian existentialist film and, at a crucial point, the shabbily-dressed woman asked the nerdy bloke 'Are you saying you don't believe in the existential inevitability of the progress to perfect communism?' Or something like it. I had no idea what she meant - even in the subtitles.

 

I wasn't making any recommendations about striking out. The issue is that they have paid the charges plus interest at 8% and are arguing about the balance. Whether the charges were or were not lawful is now, I suspect, off the field of play - perhaps others can offer their opinion. It's gone beyond their defence or lack of it to the original claim - you've won that one, they've paid. Strike out is no longer an option. What they are arguing about now is the amount of interest they pay. We have to marshal effective arguments about it.

 

That's why I say we need a killer app for this one.

 

Best

 

W

 

Ps - :-? me too!

[Glenn UK]

Sarah's post bring us back to the issue of accepting part payments before court.

 

If you do then this is where you get stuck.

 

I am certain that this needs a stiff response based on the UTCCR (is it sec14? cant remember without looking), anyway it needs some work and a robust case put forward.

 

its likely i will be in the same position in a weeks time, however since am still reading about Limitations act i don't have the time to do this right now, if someone wants to start id be happy to chip in.

 

I think that some of the case law might also be worthwhile, i know that Kleinwort vs Benson includes some stuff on unjust enrichment which should form part of that argument IMHO.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[bill-k]

Hi, Ladybird

 

No shouting at all - I think you have a point.

 

Have a look

at my thread entitled 'Help! Vampiress' (get it by clicking on my name to the left of the box, follow through to 'all threads started by this member' and you'll find it there). SOme of your questions will be answered therein.

 

What I did was copy Vampiress' format onto an Excel spreadsheet. Works very well for me. Let me know if you want any help.

 

W

 

Just an announcement from Batty Bill here. Vampiress has announced that her Google Chambers will be closed for a while, as they are undergoing a "Re-Vamp" :grin:

Mindzai's spreadsheet will not be affected by this, and should still be available.

 

For those needing compound interest spreadies, this is available for download, along with Excel versions of Vamp's Recommended #5 and #16 spreadies here:

 

http://www.cagmembers.go2.to/

[sarahpp]

Thanks Glenn - I have been looking through Justwon's thread which refers to the UTCCR in great detail but, I just need to get my head around it a bit more.

 

The defence document refers to the whole claim and not just the disputed amount. They manage to get the gender wrong the entire way through.

[natwesttookmymoney]

Glenn - thanks for the indicator. I'll have a gander when I have the time (which is NOT now!).

 

Sarah - The defence document may well refer to the whole claim but, as they've already paid the bulk of it, I suspect they won't have to argue now whether or not their charges are justified - that aspect is done and dusted. They may not go to court, ultimately, as going to court having paid the charges back would be an admission of liability, regardless of what they said in the settlement letter. We just need a good argument to persuade them not to bother and to give you your due.

 

Westy

[bill-k]

...i would come over and sit with you while you fill the spreadsheet in.

 

Maybe if you pm me, I can give you my phone number and I will talk you through it as you complete the sheet.

I have been helping Vamp a bit lately, and have noticed myself that some people are just plain petrified of spreadies. They can look so complex, and I have been making suggestions to Vamp about improving their user-friendliness. The Google facility itself can be an obstacle, but once people are familiar with it, it is very useful for sharing and helping.

 

I have recently helped a few people out by using the "Collaborate" facility. This allows 2 users to actually share a spreadsheet online, and work together. It needs a bit of getting used to again, but is brilliant IMO. I "fixed" a guy's sheet up just the other day "before his very eyes." The other facility is for live chatting to other users online in Google. This has also been helpful.

 

I hope Vamp's re-Vamp will be finished soon, and that it will be easier to use these spreadies. Meanwhile:

 

Spready guide:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-50088.html

CAG Online spreadies:

http://www.cagmembers.go2.to/

[ladybird17]

I did notice the share facility for the spreadsheets, but again, there seems to be no instructions on how to implement this - so those of that aren't PC buffs are left scratching our heads again!

[Glenn UK]

Sarah

 

For what its worth don't get blinkered into looking at one thing, spread your nets wide and makes sure you look at some case law if you can. The opposition certainly will.

 

If i can find any links re unjust enrichment i will post them.

 

Glenn

[bill-k]

I posted this on another thread yeaterday. Is it of any help here ?

 

Forgive me please, if I have picked this up by the wrong handle, but I think Crapitall have succeeded in causing confusion by paying not just an arbitrary lower amount than claimed, but an amount which is exactly equal to the charges element of the claim. This makes the claim appear to have been "sliced up" into convenient sections, to be dealt with a piece at a time. A kind of "divide and conquer," if you like.

 

If the claim was for £800 charges, plus £500 interest, plus £100 costs, then any amount offered which is less than the total of £1,400 claimed is a partial settlement. It matters not whether it is £800, £500, £100, or £1,399. It is no more than just £XXX towards the total claim of £1,400, and until the remainder is paid, the claim is not settled, and continues. If it exactly equals the charges element of the claim, then it is still not a payment of charges - it is a partial payment of the claim, and is nothing other than that.

 

Tell the defendant that you do not accept the part-payment as settlement of the claim, and that the claim is continuing without delay. Inform the court when you submit the claim, that £XXX has been paid toward the claim, but the remainder is still outstanding.

 

As Glenn says, if you don't bank the cheque and/or you return it, then it is quite clear that the part-payment, although offered, has not been accepted. That keeps it simple, I reckon, and avoids any doubt.

 

If you do bank the cheque, then this is where it is important that your rejection letter is very clearly and unambiguously worded. In this case, I think it will be well worth waiting for Glenn & UK to come up with a template.

 

That's how I understand this, and I hope my view helps, but please demolish this post if necessary !!

[unquote]

[redsue]

bill-k you explained the exact things to me many moons ago matey

 

oh at last, I've managed to find a whole host of people in the same boat as me - hooray - its tough when the threads are all spread apart - there are a few of us over in the NW thread in the same position.

 

my thread is here regarding Nationwide

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nationwide/28574-authorised-interest-unauthorised-interest-7.html#post397033

 

Basically, NW have paid back all the actual charges once I filed a claim plus contractual at 7.75% authorised rate which I have accepted as part payment.

However, I am going after the 24.9% unauthorised rate but in their defence they claim I am not entitled to either and they reckon they have paid me 8% S.69.

I've filed my AQ and asked for the defence to be thrown out so just waiting on the court now to allocate.

I shall watch this with great interest...

[sarahpp]

Thanks for your help guys.

 

I am going to do some homework and will post anything I find which may help. I do agree that we need to "pull things together" a bit (if that is the right expression ) on this issue.

[golfscape]

Hi Bill

 

Have read many of your comments all over the site with great interest and would appreciate your thoughts on the following

 

To my great suprise today had 6k paid into my account by SCM (Lloyds) which i beleive probably represents the charges - only guessing on this point as ive recieved no correspondence from them to confirm they have made a payment let alone what it was made up of.

 

Made me smile big time though . But there is another 6k in contractual interest and costs still outstanding.

 

My thread is Golfscape v Lloyds tsb

 

Im only going to accept this as part settlement and as I have an allocation hearing on Monday Feb 5th and as its only 2 days away I will probably get to hand SCM solicitor the letter myself. At least it will save the cost of another recorded delivery letter!

 

Im wondering how the courts have responded to other claims which are presented by the defendant as now contractual interest only (in my case another 6k), as presumably lloyds will claim they have settled the charges.

 

I guess what im asking is.....has there been any indication that the courts will accept contractual interest claims once the defendant has returned the charges? My claim that its only part of the full claim from the ground up not with standing.

 

To me at least this is a different issue to defendants settling contractual interest out of court. Ive done this myself and not had to argue the toss.

 

Whats the court going to say on Monday when i discuss allocation for a 12k claim when they have already paid me 6k?

 

Still cant believe they would pay that into my account without telling me.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[bill-k]

Hi Martin. Thanks for asking me this, but TBH this aspect of things is out of my depth. I have ventured an opinion above, but it is certainly nowhere near as learned as those who have had experience of this. I think your view of this concurs with mine, though, in that the partial payment is just that. If you weren't given any notice of its' arrival, and no description of its' nature, then it is so far, no more than an anonymous donation !!!! Until such time as somebody specifies who paid it and why, you can call it what you like !!

Seriously, whatever they call it (when they eventually tell you), they are not in a position to dictate how any partial settlement is allocated IMO. It's part -penalty and part-interest, and you are now going for the remainder of each.

 

That's the way I see it, but hopefully others here will have views.

[chorlton1]

Bill/Glenn/anybody....

 

Just about to file my N1 for my Barclays Charge card - I am attempting to claim the difference between the Barclaycard contractual rate of interest plus penalty charge and the Premier card rate of interest (they dont apply a penalty charge, just the "interest". As the difference is 15% APR or therabouts, and the balance on the account was over 20k, the claim is chunky. I am aiming for Fast Track as, whilst I could lose, I am asking for disclosure on both my barclaycard and barclays premier as I content there must be an element of penalty charge in the 3% per month premier card interest.

Amex paid me for similar, so I think I am in right direction but would really like somebody to have a look at the letter I sent to Barclaycard to make any comments before I file as I dont want to look like a muppet in court!

 

Could you pse advise best way for me to get advice on this - have posted a couple ofthreads but onviously not in the right place as I have had no replies, except from the one post in this thread.

 

Many thanks