Why is no one claiming the contractual rate of interest???

[natwesttookmymoney]

Phoenix

 

"a) there are no implied terms in the contract that allow for you to charge contractual interest"

 

There is and it applies throughout English law. It's the principle of equity - fair treatment. Mutuality and reciprocity flows from it.

 

there's also the bank's fiduciary responsibility, whether or not it agrees with it is irrelevant: it has, at Law, a fiduciary responsibility to its customers - and that included not making profit unless the customer specifically agrees to it. In order to get informed agreement, the banks have to make clear what their actual costs are - and they don't, so we can't give informed consent.

 

The fact that the T&Cs are standard and have no room for negotiation also has a bearing but I can't remember what it is, at the moment. If I do in the near future, I'll come back.

 

The final point is that, if the bank levies unlawful charges on you AND charges interest on them, then you're entitled to all of it back. The banks may argue over how much but the principle is sound.

 

Westy

[Spiceskull]

"a) there are no implied terms in the contract that allow for you to charge contractual interest" There is and it applies throughout English law. It's the principle of equity - fair treatment. Mutuality and reciprocity flows from it.

It is very important not to misinterpret what terms are fair, what terms are implied, and what terms are actually agreed to. For example, you will have agreed that should your finances be dire, and the bank needs to make a recovery, then they are entitled to report such details to CRAs. There is no implied reciprocity allowing you to do the same. However, it could be argued that we have the right, implied, to report the bank to the OFT and FSA, but they cannot do likewise...

 

The implied terms are that they will operate your account lawfully, and I agree that we are arguing that the term is being abused by the bank. However, and as I said earlier, the fact that the bank breaches contract law does not, by implication, allow for us to do the same.

The fact that the T&Cs are standard and have no room for negotiation also has a bearing but I can't remember what it is, at the moment. If I do in the near future, I'll come back.

I can tell you exactly what it is - you have an ABSOLUTE right to amend the terms yourself, although it is a moot point whether or not the bank would accept the amendment. If you want a copy of my notes then PM me...

 

My argument, successful though unproven in court, is that mutuality allowed me to amend a term of the contract, bilaterally by invitation to be party to the amendment, and that by their conduct the bank accepted the amendment in principle.

The final point is that, if the bank levies unlawful charges on you AND charges interest on them, then you're entitled to all of it back.

Completely and utterly in agreement on this - the penalties and the interest should never have been taken.

[natwesttookmymoney]

The law overrides everything - T&Cs can't put themselves above it. English LAw, of which Equity is probably the most important principle, is above the T&Cs. The UTCCA simply codifies the concept.

 

But I'm DELIGHTED we agree on something!!

 

W

[Guest Battleaxe]

I can tell you exactly what it is - you have an ABSOLUTE right to amend the terms yourself, although it is a moot point whether or not the bank would accept the amendment.

 

I did amend the T & C's when I opend my new bank account, initialled the amendments, got a countersignature, sent the lot back and the the account was opened.

 

I struck what I did not agree with, initielled and witnessed these strilke outs also.

 

I have the bank bending over backwards to help me. T & C's are not lawful and you don't have to agree with them. I tried it, the account is open and has been operating without a problem for four months.

[natwesttookmymoney]

Wow!

Who did that?

W

[angry cat]

Hi Guys-

sorry to interupt your debate.

 

I just wanted to say...

that I won against EGG plc

 

I claimed back my charges, plus

the compounded interest on those charges (vampiress's Google spreadsheet for credit card compounded) plus the statutory S69 8% interest.

 

Love AC

[bill-k]

Hi Guys-

sorry to interupt your debate.

 

I just wanted to say...

that I won against EGG plc

 

I claimed back my charges, plus

the compounded interest on those charges (vampiress's Google spreadsheet for credit card compounded) plus the statutory S69 8% interest.

 

Love AC

 

Congratulations, AC !!! Well done.

 

Did you REALLY get contractual interest PLUS statutory interest on top ??

 

Do tell !!!

[Guest Battleaxe]

Way to go AC another precedent sent. Are the banks really giving up the fight?

[natwesttookmymoney]

That's great, AC - that's what I'm claiming against NatWest.

 

Looks like you had a bit of a horrorshow, though> well done for seeing it through - and feel proud of yourself: you won! Having actually gone to a court hearing!

 

Best wishes

 

Westy

[millymollymoo]

Hi Guys-

sorry to interupt your debate.

 

I just wanted to say...

that I won against EGG plc

 

I claimed back my charges, plus

the compounded interest on those charges (vampiress's Google spreadsheet for credit card compounded) plus the statutory S69 8% interest.

 

Love AC

 

CONGRATULATIONS

[ozmrr]

Hi all,

I am relatively new to all of this. I am confused (a little) with regard to what to claim. I do, however, want to claim the contractural rate of interest.

I am making a claim against Barclays, however, I closed the account on 1st September 2004.

Do I claim the contractural rate up to todays date or do I only calculate it until the account was closed?

Cheers for the advice in advance..

[newbody]

Do I claim the contractural rate up to todays date or do I only calculate it until the account was closed?

 

I would believe it is up until the date of settlement as the argument is that the bank has borrowed this money from you and havent repaid it therefore the intrest is accuring on it until they settle as it is your money they have borrowed irrelevant of the fact the account is closed

 

 

Please note these are my views and opinions only and i am not a Legal Egale just another user of this site

So if i am wrong please tell me i am

[bill-k]

Hi all,

I am relatively new to all of this. I am confused (a little) with regard to what to claim. I do, however, want to claim the contractural rate of interest.

I am making a claim against Barclays, however, I closed the account on 1st September 2004.

Do I claim the contractural rate up to todays date or do I only calculate it until the account was closed?

Cheers for the advice in advance..

Yes, Ozmrr, Newbody is correct, you claim right up until the date of settlement of the claim. You will probably need to read up on contractual interest, so that you can show that you not only know what you're claiming, but why.

 

I hope some of these links might help you in your quest:-

Beginners' Steps:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-475208.html

Trouble finding stuff? Michael Browne's A-Z Guide:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html#post436526

Spready guide:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-50088.html

Vampiress’s Google Chambers:

https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=wise&passive=true&nui=1&continue=http%3A%2F%2Fspreadsheets.google.com%2Fccc%3Fnew

[ozmrr]

Thanks for the info.

With regard to contractual rates of interest I have seen a range of numbers bandied about and have read about the issues related to the changes in interest rates over the years.

Is it fair and reasonable to take the bank in questions monthly unauthorised ovedraft rate (2.05% per month or 24.8% p.a) and use that in the calculation or does that give me too much benefit and should I use another rate - say the authorised overdraft rate?

It is a confusing area.

Ozmrr

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, Ozmrr

 

(how do you pronounce that?)

 

Read through this entire thread (if you have enough life left:rolleyes:) and you'll see the various arguments thrashed out.

 

I - and many others - have come to the conclusion that claiming the unauthorised rate is fair under 'mutuality and reciprocity'. You can always offer something lower as alternatives, if it makes you feel better and more virtuous. But personally, I'd go after the b*gg*rs for all you can.

 

The arguments have been thrashed out but, in short, they charge you a high rate for unauthorised borrowing, so it's quite reasonable for you to charge them for unlawful removal of funds from your account. The bulk of the compensation is merely paying you back your own money anyway.

 

Westy

[bill-k]

Ozmrr, it's not really as complex at it looks. The only rate you use for contractual interest is their current annual rate - either unauthorised or authorised. Nothing else to work out - the spreadsheet does the rest for you. You just do the boring stuff - entering in the charges and dates !!

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hey. Bill - That was your 2000th post!

 

Congrats!

 

W

 

And now - I'm off to do some paying work.

W

[bill-k]

Hey. Bill - That was your 2000th post!

 

Congrats!

 

W

 

And now - I'm off to do some paying work.

W

Aaaaaw, shooot ! I missed it !! Cheers, Westy !!!

[redsonja]

Hi folks,

 

Just for anyone reading this thread who may be in doubt about claiming CCI....I have just had my 1st win with Morgan Stanley after LBA stage and thet have agreed to cough up CCI! Deadline was up today before i filed for court tomorrow and I had letter today!!!

 

It has now made me determined to plod on with the rest with CCI!

[bill-k]

Congratulations, RedSonja !!! I'm well pleased for ya !!

 

Sure gives you confidence, dunnit ? !!! :D :D

[redsonja]

It certainly does and I wouldnt have had any of it if it wasnt for everyone on here! I will definitely be donating when I have sorted it all.

 

Im oozing with confidence for credit/store cards now but still keep putting off my claim against Halifax bank! lol. I will get there though!

 

I think they are all starting to recognise the CCI now as I have also had letter today from Creation (partners JJB card) offering difference between their charge and £12 but agreeing to pay the interest! Of course my letter will end in ....off! :lol:

 

It was worth the hours of reading the whole 50 odd pages of this thread! lol

[Guest Battleaxe]

Way to go Redsonja. Now crack on with the rest. They are realising we are understanding the enormity of their concealment.

[natwesttookmymoney]

Great stuff, RedSonja.

 

 

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!

 

Delighted for you.

 

Westy

[Spiceskull]

I did amend the T & C's when I opend my new bank account, initialled the amendments, got a countersignature, sent the lot back and the the account was opened.

 

I struck what I did not agree with, initielled and witnessed these strilke outs also.

 

I have the bank bending over backwards to help me. T & C's are not lawful and you don't have to agree with them. I tried it, the account is open and has been operating without a problem for four months.

That is incredible - but I suppose the downside is that if there is ever a dispute over Ts&Cs they can argue that the terms are bilateral, and that they were not forced on you.

 

As a matter of interest - whilst they clearly accepted your amendments, did they actually comment on the non-conformist approach you took to open the account? I would be keen to understand their thinking behind accepting the partial loss of control here...

[Guest Battleaxe]

They never commented. I doubt if they read the T & C's I returned. I was surprised that everything went through.