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    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Why is no one claiming the contractual rate of interest???


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Hi BF, and all interested (like... everyone?).

 

The original simple spreadsheet was not set up to easily change the rate of interest. With the complex spreadsheet at the moment, all you can do is change the 8% for a contractual rate, and this one rate will apply for the whole of the period. This is mentioned in the notes of the spreadsheet.

 

There is an arguement that as the rates have changed over time, the contractual rate claimed should reflect this. I am currently looking into this. If it would be correct to alter the rate over time, then I can create a template that would do this quite easily.

 

I am working on spreadsheets today, and will be able to spend quite sometime doing so over the next couple of weeks, so hopefully we can clear up a lot of these points very shortly.

 

I will put a suggestive element into every update of the spreadsheets for the contractual rate from now on, and hopefully more people will take this arguement up, as it is possible many people are unaware.

 

Look out folks for updates and good luck with your claims.

Vamp. x

 

 

why cant i open these spreadsheets???

 

what is contractual interest????

 

will i have to go to court if i add interest???

 

did i work out my interest correctly??? i found the calculator on here and typed in how much i want back in charges £2,200 then i told me i should claim over £1,000 interest is that right or i am having a blonde moment and done it wrong????

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Just an announcement from Batty Bill here. Vampiress has announced that her Google Chambers will be closed for a while, as they are undergoing a "Re-Vamp."

 

A range of Simple Interest spreadsheets are available here (NB. these are not recommended for contractual interest claims):

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-49061.html

Just an announcement from Batty Bill here. Vampiress has announced that her Google Chambers will be closed for a while, as they are undergoing a "Re-Vamp."

 

A range of Simple Interest spreadsheets are available here (NB. these are not recommended for contractual interest claims):

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-49061.html

For those needing compound interest spreadies,

Mindzai's spreadsheet should be available here:

version v1.9

Spready guide:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-50088.html

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I am totally confused and bewildered. Having read this thread and also Redsue's, and Mindzai and Lucid's, I have claimed Contractual Interest, with alternatives as Redsue did with hers, 9 my claim went in to the court on Feb 13th). Now the whole thread has changed and I don't know what to think. I am just a 'bear of very little brain' and I simply do not understand a lot of the arguments.

I do wish someone would clear up the confusion because this is thoroughly unhelpful. I also find some of the personal comments unworthy. Bill-k does not deserve to be treated like this and it upsets me.

DDD.

Dolly Day Dream

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Hi, Jude

 

Pursue your claim as you have filed it. the basis is reasonable. No need to worry about anything until you start getting offers - I'm sure folks on here will be prepared to say whether they think the offer is reasonable or not.

 

And, in order that you are no longer confused and your mind is not troubled.....stop reading this thread!!!! :D It gets very esoteric, at times!!

 

Best

 

Westy

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Just subscribing.

Intresting thread

pen

:x if i have been off any help to you please click my scales

 

cases won

28th July Single Claim for bank charges against LTSB, £6,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement

 

18th July Joint Claime against LTSB £7,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement.

 

 

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Are you completely bonkers, Pen??

:D

 

Westy

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Are you completely bonkers, Pen??

:D

 

Westy

Excuse my friend,Pen - he's currently celebrating his win.

 

Now come on, Westy, let's go home. Do you want to visit the loo first ?

 

And, no, Westy - I'm not trying to start a fight !!!

 

And look at the mess you've made on your shoes, now !!

 

Home time... :D

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now got com'letely non-alkolic bo-tul of JAcky Daniels

 

hey - s'emty!

 

hoo drank my Jacky? where my mate Jacky gone?

 

(slump)

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Dont know if its any good to anyone but NatWest settled today in a case im doing for a friend for the tune of ----

 

2078 CHARGES & COSTS

 

2296 CONTRACTUAL INTERST AT 29.8%

 

 

In court thursday - contractrual

 

Marvellous

Halifax - £2500

Legal & Trade - Webt to courtfor Breach CCA, Complained to OFT they ruled in my favour, So did court, 2k written off.

NatWest - Contactual Interest - Won:p

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Hi again Milly!

???...Ain't that just typical!...lol

U finally think that someone else agrees with your way of thinking and appears to have understood the concept of CONTRACT LAW and how it relates to the issues of CAG

...and they then go and delete their Post??!!!

 

Just a few Q.'s...

 

Who said that U had read my Post wrong?

Why did U delete your post so readily?

Who asked U to apologise?

 

It is sometimes re-assuring to other readers of Threads/Posts, that when doing their own research (...which I often recommend them to do!), they seek the same info from as many sources as possible and the answers being given are virtually the same.

They shouldn't always except the 1st thing what they are told as being Gospel, unless they totally trust/believe the advice that they are being given.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, especially when debating 'grey' topics.

No-one should be lamblasted for having a contradictary view just cos it may go against the mainstream.

Likewise, no-one should fear ridicule for publicly stating their view, especially if they put forward external references to support their argument.

If we all were 'sorry' for thinking something different, we would still be living in a World which we thought was Flat and Bank Charges were lawful.

That's not to say that on occasions we all can't agree to disagree though!

 

FWIW...I haven't seen an argument against the rationale that was used by me in the link (#1299).

 

I can appreciate that other previous Posters in that Thread may have unsubscribed from that Thread and therefore are unaware of my subsequent advice and have not had the chance of their right to reply yet.

 

It must also be remembered that the link is to a Post I did some 2 months ago and may have dropped of the Radar.

However, I still think it is relevent even now, despite the recent splintering of factions which seems to going on.

 

I am fully aware of the negatives to the CAG community as a whole and of a potential flamewar that would undoubtedly ensue if I were to reply to a certain Post (...which I won't link to) on the Lloyds TSB Forum.

I stand by every Post that I have ever made and which I believed was correct at the time of Posting.

I say this regardless of whatever others may think, or chose to re-edit!!!

 

I will say this though...

 

To those that say...ONLY Claim s69 Statutory Interest @ 8% if U are not confident with Contractual Interest (...which in itself is good advice!) and TOTALLY disregard even thinking about researching Contractual Interest for yourself (...which happened to be contrary to the advice I gave!).

...and then proudly boast that they, themselves, have successfully Claimed Claim upon Claim which has included Contractual Interest suggests a slight dilema for others methinks???!!!

 

To comment and pass damming judgement on a Post/Thread/Link without having 1st read completely through the aforementioned (...their own admittance!) smacks of a condescendment that belies a certain ignorance.

To then go on to repeat their initial mistake by Posting likewise in another Thread is insulting and I await a most sincere public apology.

 

Would it not be better to try to help others understand the complexities of Contractual Interest, rather than to dismiss those who may struggle with its concept and 'in-not-so-many-words', say to them that U are taking the individualistic view that it is totally beyond their capabilities???

 

Nobody is saying what, or what not to Re-claim.

However, it is NOT for any single one of us to decide what others do, or don't do with their own Claims by denying them that certain access to your knowledge (...whatever little it is!), so as they, themselves, can formulate their own judgement on how best to proceed by basing it on ALL the evidence before them!

 

By impeaching those who try to be fair to one and all, regardless of a Re-claimants educational development, is perhaps to take away the one thing that this site purports to do...

The EMPOWERMENT of those whose lives have been blighted by unlawful debt!

 

Methinks "ANIMAL FARM", is a book that should be read by some?!

 

Sorry for the above rant MMM...

Please ignore the above paragraphs in purple & red.

They were in no way directed at U or for anything that U have done.

 

Instead of asking me to accept your mis-founded apology or forgive U, perhaps U could re-edit the Posts that U deleted??

Obviously it would be best (...for the continuity of this thread) if U could re-type EXACTLY what U Posted originally.

Failing that, if U can remember the gist of the substantive (...incl. the Refs U gave), that would help others follow just as much, I'm sure.

 

I liked the way U quoted actual transcripts out of reputable books.

It added, not detracted from my Post which I linked to.

 

I sometimes have a tendency to 'separate-the-chaff-from-the-wheat' and put things into Laymans English for the benefit of the masses.

I often forget that unless one quotes 'ad verbatim' legaleese, the more learned amonst our ranks don't understand nor values and takes seriously what has been Posted.

 

 

 

All the Best, in All of YOUR Claims!...:)

 

This is clearly a (very!) thinly veiled and highly misleading attack on me, so I'll respond.

 

Lets be clear. This stems from the fact that you highjacked a thread, and advised a claimant to withdraw, sorry "Halt", their claim at well past the AQ stage and start over again with CCI. Here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/51535-darling-2-takes-tsb-5.html#post549638

 

This particular claimant had been quite nervous about the whole process, mainly due to the fact that the claim was so large at £11000, and was already in the fast track.

 

The charges ranged back the full 6 years so to add CCI at the U/A rate could have seen the total go up to £30k or beyond - easily in the multi-track.

 

My reply was a few posts down, here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/51535-darling-2-takes-tsb-5.html#post552348. Clearly something's upset you about this reply but I genuinely don't know what. I wasn't saying 'don't ever claim CI', I was saying that people should be more cautious - I even included in the post that I meant no offence.

 

I would have let this go by now, but as you seem intent on bringing it up and attacking me in parts of the site that you know I don't frequent, I'll say it again - the advice you gave in that thread was at best misguided and at worst reckless.

 

I accept your point that people should make there own decisions, but to advise a claimant to withdraw a claim post-allocation and multiply it on the basis of an untested principle, knowing it'll end up in the multi-track with full costs exposure, is undeniably wrong.

 

You also imply that I am hypocrytical by advising some others not to claim CI whilst previously claiming it myself. I refered to this in my post (linked above) solely to demonstrate that I was not opposed to the principle of claiming CI 'per-se'. I was not "boasting", and I'm very sorry that you interperited it that way.

 

My CI claims were concluded months ago, and quite alot has happened in those months. My view has changed in that time and I've openly admitted that it has - I've even openly admitted I may have been wrong to advocate the claiming of CI quite so strongly - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/45815-contractual-interest-another-settlement.html#post573932

 

Can you please though, at least attempt to contemplate the reason's why my opinion has shifted?

 

3 CI claims have been before judges in recent weeks, one judge at an allocation hearing expressed doubts over the validity of CI and explicitly warned that there were possible costs implications of its unseccessful pursual (Stan1 v Lloyds). Another gave the claimant 28 days to put a better case together or withdraw, stating that at the present time his only option was to find for the Defendent (puddock v Halifax), another also expressed doubts about its validity (Golfscape).

 

Add to that the ERC disaster, where a claimant lost and was hit for 4k in costs. I know that ERC an CI are seperate issues, but the fact remains that CI is untested and contentious, and unless you can not just plead or even know your arguements - but also confidently and succinctly put them before a judge - then the result could very, very easily be the same.

 

Also, as I said in the post linked above, posts like yours do not help matters - although I have never questioned that it was well intended - in that many, many claimants now just plead CI on their claim form without any knowledge whatsoever of the issues.

 

FWIW I do still believe there are very strong and compelling arguements for CI, and yes, I would probably still claim it again myself - but that's MY claim, at MY risk.

 

Yes - many, many claimants will win contractual and thats great - there's nothing I like seeing more that the banks (especially Lloyds!) get taken to the cleaners. But for me personally I've made the decision that in the majority of cases the protection of a claimant from any potential costs liability is the most important factor - particularly in the fast or multi-track. Even then, I would'nt say 'definately don't claim CI', I'd say weigh up the pro's and cons in full view of the facts and potential implications.

 

Its a shame you've resorted to personal attacks, but thats your prerogative - I really could'nt care less whether you think I have 'little knowledge' or 'no understanding of contract law'. I know my limitations and never professed to be a lawyer (see sig).

 

Which reminds me, what was it you do again?

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Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Hi, Gary

 

"3 CI claims have been before judges in recent weeks, one judge at an allocation hearing expressed doubts over the validity of CI and explicitly warned that there were possible costs implications of its unseccessful pursual (Stan1 v Lloyds). Another gave the claimant 28 days to put a better case together or withdraw, stating that at the present time his only option was to find for the Defendent (puddock v Halifax), another also expressed doubts about its validity (Golfscape)."

 

I think it is indeed salutary to look at those three cases. There was a bit of 'winging it' going on, in Puddock's case, in particular. S/He di not seem to be adequately prepared, the rate claimed bore no relation to either authorised or unauthorised rate and s/he wasn't at all well-prepared to argue the case. (Sorry if you're reading this and offended Puddock, but that's the conclusion I draw).

 

I feel it's important to know and understand why and how the case can be made for contractual. The first, and most straightforward, is where the claimant has been in overdraft: in that circumstance, the contractual interest is a demonstrable part of the claimant's loss. Demonstrable loss plus statutory interest is, I would have thought, very reasonable.

 

If they have been in overdraft and have incurred charges, then they have been hit with unauthorised interest levels for at least part of the time - otherwise, they wouldn't have incurred charges, which are for exceeding limits. Charges plus unauthorised interest (but definitely NOT statutory) is arguable from the point of (a) getting back the demonstrable loss; (b) compensation for loss of benefit and © preventing unjust enrichment.

 

I really believe, fundamentally and powerfully, that contractual interest, presented and argued correctly, is likely to win. I know that the ERC failure was a shock and devastating, especially for the person involved, but I repeat what I have said elsewhere - it has no bearing on the bank charges. No more than bailiff actions do, nor reclaiming money spent on inadequate and faulty car servicing. They are quite separate issues. Successes in the ERC arena were never put forward in the bank charges forum as reasons or precedents to continue - why are failures now thrown up as cautionary tales? You might as well cite the Supreme Court's decision to reverse the judgement against Philip Morris against the High Court's decision that the daughter of a man who worked in the Naval dockyards had a claim against the MoD for asbestos-related disease.

 

ERC and bank charges are not connected in any way, shape or form. The only similarity they have is that they're both to do with money. That is it: no common ground, otherwise.

 

So let's focus on bank charges in the bank threads, and ERC, bailiffs, unfair savings account policies, endowment policy underpayments, pension mis-selling and all the other things in their appropriate forums. There is no crossover.

 

Westy

Westy

 

 

 

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Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Ok can we try to get these threads back on course for what they were meant

 

I am trying for bank charges + CI at unauthorised rate and feel i have a reasonable case though flawed at the minute argument

 

when i first joined this site i was appreciative of the difference of views and opinions expressed none were saying do this or do that all were relating what they had done or were looking at doing

 

or in the case of CI (banks rates of interest being charged back on them ) on the entire claim arguments/views that might support this and then people reinforcing or disagreeing on the same points were helpful as it allowed you to see all possible arguments on a point and not just the ones you wanted to see allowing you to amend or your argument(use of this word instead of stance/viewpoint) to suit your own individual needs better it also allowed for a flow of new information to arrive weather helpful or not but opened up other possible avenues for pursuing this.

 

But over the last week i think it is alot of the posts i have seen have not so much been a reversal but sound advice erring on the side of caution which can be nice to recieve as it is easy to get caught up with the big figures compound contratural interest can generate so it is nice to be bought back to earth to reassess the reality of the claim.

Now some seem to see this as reversal of advice and policy on the site As i see it it is not a reversal of site policy . As i see site policy it is we are all here to help empower each other :-) and assisst with what we have read learnt through other people experiences on here and make what we feel is the best decision for us

The annoying :mad: :mad: bit with the posts on CI over the last week or so now has become no-one dare venture an opinion on anything to a negative effect as it may appear to be saying dont do this or that or you gonna lose or fear that the poster / or posters on that thread take offence to it and feel that they are being attacked

 

Sorry just my rant after seeing alot of bickering starting over most of the forum over a subject that needs discussing and debating(was gonna put arguing in but thought better of it :rolleyes: ) until the best and most secure/water tight case can be put together to make the claiming of CCI as routine as claiming the standard charges and default interest is at the minute

 

This post is not directed at anyone person or group of people

It is my view and summation from reading posts over the last week

If it has caused you offence then all I can say is Guilty Consciences and sorry if it has

But i would like to see this all put behind and get back on track with what we are here for and that is to make the BANKS pay :)

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Moving on:

 

IANAL, but I think there are three different situations.

 

In all three scenarios below, assume the bank took £100 in penalties a year ago, and charges 15% PA on authorised overdrafts, 30% PA on unauthorised overddrafts.

 

And suppose there are no other transactions on the account.

 

The question is, what can you reasonably claim (excluding compensation for the hassle of having to deal with the bank and straighten things out.)

 

A) You had £100 in your account, and no agreed overdraft.

 

The penalty takes your account to zero; there are no interest or other charges. Clearly you can claim the £100. Anything else?

 

B) You had zero in your account, and an agreed overdraft of £150.

 

The penalty takes your account £100 overdrawn; and over the year, interest charges total £15, taking the balance to £115 overdrawn. It seems to me you can claim the £115. Anything else?

 

C) You had zero in your account, and no agreed overdraft.

 

The penalty takes your account £100 overdrawn; and over the year, interest charges total £30, taking the balance to £130 overdrawn. It seems to me you can claim the £130. Anything else?

 

In case A, you have been deprived of the use of *your* £100 for a year. Simply recovering the £100 means you have received no compensation for the loss of use of your money. I think this means you have suffered "loss of amenity", and you are entiled to claim compensation for it. Assessing the right amount of compensation is hard. One reasonable approach is to set the compensation at the amount you would have had to pay to borrow £100 for a year. Alternatively, you can claim the S69 8% interest.

 

In case B, you have been deprived of the use of £100 of your £150 overdraft. Again, you have suffered a "loss of amenity". However, in this case, had you exercised your right to draw the money, you would have had to pay the bank 15% interest. And as the bank is willing to lend you money at 15%, then the "reasonable approach" of scenario A will not benefit you.

 

I don't really think you could even reasonably claim the S69 8% interest, because the bank has not actually taken any of your money ... it has simply said you can have less of its. (Yes, it has charged you interst on the penalties, but you are reclaiming that.)

 

In case C, you have not actually been deprived of anything. You could not have made use of the bank account anyway, as the balance was zero and there was no overdraft agreement. So for the bank to restore the balance to zero seems to me to be adequate redress.

 

As I said, I am not a lawyer.

 

If your account balance was more than zero, or would have been had it not been for the charges, then the bank has deprived you of the use of your money, and you must surely be entitled to compensation - but you need to be able to make it quite clear to the judge why.

 

And if your account balance was less than zero, but you are in the Small Claims track, you are relatively protected against liability for the bank's legal costs.

 

However, if your account balance was less than zero, and you are not int he Small Claims track, then you are risking money by trying to obtain interest on money you never had ... especially if the bank has made a partial offer which covers the penalties and the interest the bank has charged on them.

 

Tim

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Ok having got a good understanding of contractual claims (I think?) and getting prepared to start a claim against Monument (about £900 incl contractual interest) I have got this info regarding its interest rates:

 

MONUMENTS INTEREST RATES:

 

NOV 2002:

 

MERCHANDISE INTEREST: 1.313% A MONTH

CASH INTEREST: 1.833% A MONTH

 

JUNE 2005:

 

MERCHANDISE INTEREST: 1.396% A MONTH

CASH INTEREST: 1.999% A MONTH

 

JAN 2006:

 

MERCHANDISE INTEREST: 1.527% A MONTH (19.9% APR)

CASH INTEREST: 2.141% A MONTH (28.9% APR)

 

OCT 2006:

 

MERCHANDISE INTEREST: 1.527% A MONTH (19.9% APR)

CASH INTEREST: 2.207% A MONTH (29.9% APR)

 

 

So what would you claim at???

 

Regards

 

innocent :?:

:D CLICK MY SCALES IF I HAVE BEEN USEFUL :D

*

BARCLAYCARD WON £307

*

CAPITAL ONE WON £2.1k

*

NATWEST WON £3.4k

*

LLOYDS TSB CURRENT

Start 26/4 LBA 7/6 conLBA 22/1 N1 12/3 AQ 3/5/07ONHOLD

MORE THAN/ LLOYDS MCARD

Start 2/11 CONTL LBA 15/1/07 NOW RE-RESEARCHING

MONUMENT VISA

Start 1/11 CONTL LBA 15/1/07 NOW RE-RESEARCHING

NATWEST BUSINESS

RESEARCHING

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"Thankyou" for your early EARLY response

 

(In one of my all night reading moods)

 

 

Agreed... use current rate??

 

But which one? They are not defined as unauthorised or authorised, but merchandise and cash advance....

 

 

Cheers

 

Innocent ;)

:D CLICK MY SCALES IF I HAVE BEEN USEFUL :D

*

BARCLAYCARD WON £307

*

CAPITAL ONE WON £2.1k

*

NATWEST WON £3.4k

*

LLOYDS TSB CURRENT

Start 26/4 LBA 7/6 conLBA 22/1 N1 12/3 AQ 3/5/07ONHOLD

MORE THAN/ LLOYDS MCARD

Start 2/11 CONTL LBA 15/1/07 NOW RE-RESEARCHING

MONUMENT VISA

Start 1/11 CONTL LBA 15/1/07 NOW RE-RESEARCHING

NATWEST BUSINESS

RESEARCHING

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