Keele University parking ticket

[robrymond]

I recently visited my girlfriend in halls and was subjected to a parking ticket. The idea is you need to display a permit or a pay and display ticket.

 

However I'm wondering if I can contest it. The entrance from the south side has no warning signs. You drive along a stretch of road and then on the right is the halls and parking. Further up the main link road about 50-100yds is a pay and display machine with sign of the charges and to display and pay park on Keele campus.

 

However in the halls car parks there are a few signs dotted on trees, but nothing facing the entrance to the road.

 

The parking ticket says:

 

'Civil Penalty Notice'

 

NOTICE OF BREACH OF PARKING CONDITIONS AT KEELE UNIVERSITY. ISSUED BY THE CAR PARKING PARTNERSHIP.

 

Veh Reg: On ticket

Make: Ford

Seen in Location Keele University:

KU - Residents Parking and Pay & Display Ar

Ticket Issued at 11.06 on 16\12\08

Civil Enforcement Officer 003 has reasonable cause to believe that a civil penalty has been incurred because:

Code: 01

Parked without clearly displaying the required permit or pay and display ticket.

 

A CIVIL PENALTY OF £50 IS DUE WITHIN 28 days of issue..

Discounted amount of £25 will be payable within 14 days.

 

What are my rights here exactly? Fair enough I didn't display a ticket but there isn't exactly signs everywhere stating Pay and Display except on the uni road further up from where I turned off.

 

They also don't state my exact location either...

 

Any help appreciated.

[flyingdoc]

Can you please post a scan of the ticket (cover registration but leave other details intact) both sides so we can check

[robrymond]

I haven't got a scanner however I can try and photograph it.

[flyingdoc]

would be good thanks

[robrymond]

Ticket Front

 

Ticket Back

 

Sorry about it being sideways, my editor won't let me save it when I convert it! Hope that is adequate though!

[crem]

You say the ticket says "civil PENALTY notice"?

 

I wouldn't bother doing anything about contesting it with that wording on. They cannot charge you a "penalty" for parking, only charge you for a breach of parking conditions so they are unlikely to take their claim anywhere near a court.

[robrymond]

It does say below that NOTICE OF BREACH OF PARKING CONDITIONS though.

[flyingdoc]

On the back it quite clearly states breach of CONTRACT codes!!

 

I would advise the following. (Same advice as I gave earlier today)

 

1 Fold the ticket in half

2 Fold it in half again

3 and again

4 and again

5 again

6 once more

7 and again

8 now try and fold it in half again - if you can then you have disproved the theory that you cannot fold a peice of paper in half more than 7 times.

 

9 having proved/disproved that theory drop the waste paper in the nearest bin...

[robrymond]

What is the issue with the codes then? It says I breached code 1 which was failure to display a pay and display parking ticket.

[flyingdoc]

its the CONTRACT that is the important bit.

 

The fact is they are a PCC which relies on contract law.

 

You park in their carpark and in doing so agree to pay as per an implied contract with T&C displayed near their ticket machines.

 

(much of this is dependant on sineage but forget that for now)

 

1 by law, even if you accede the fact that the sineage was sufficient (which we dont at this moment but leave that for now) the most they can hope for in your breaching the contract is their own losses - which will be nowhere near the money they are asking for - this would then fall under the unfair terms and conditions and probably the utccr also.

2 The parking company can apply to the DVLA to get the Registered Keepers details (after paying a fee) but you are under NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to divulge who the driver is.

3 As the contract would be with the DRIVER of the vehicle and not the owner - and unless they can PROVE who the driver is - they have no case to take anywhere near a court. (Never outright deny being the driver - I would say answer enquiries with - you will have to take that up with the driver of the vehicle)

PCC's know that they basically have not a leg to stand on on this but rely on scare tactics to bully people into paying.

[robrymond]

It is £2 a day to park or £1 for half a day. The ticket was issued as I overslept and the machine only lets you get a ticket from 8am and there are only two parking machines, one at the main entrance to Keele in a laybay and this other near the halls which has been out of order for a few weeks but is working again now.

 

I mean I know they are bullies, but potentially by leaving it will I end up getting in further trouble. I'm a bit of a worrier over things like that...the registered keeper isn't actually me yet, the car is new to me and the details haven't changed yet.

[lamma]

they quote "Civil Enforcement Officer" aka CEO as used in real council parking under TMA. Looks fraudulent to me especially with the layout and wording. Ignore the PPC and photocopy the ticket, send it to the council parking department as part of an informal appeal and ask for a copy of the CEO's notes

[flyingdoc]

My opinion is that you will not - watch your thread for a couple of days and see what other people think - they will either confirm or contradict my point of view - then you can make your mind up - you can spare a day to get further opinion.

[robrymond]

Yeah I'll watch the thread but thanks for the advice though, appreciate it.

[flyingdoc]

If this is a Civil Penalty then why have we got breach of contract codes on the back?

Normally wouldnt they be offence or penalty codes?

 

(to lamma)

[robrymond]

they quote "Civil Enforcement Officer" aka CEO as used in real council parking under TMA. Looks fraudulent to me especially with the layout and wording. Ignore the PPC and photocopy the ticket, send it to the council parking department as part of an informal appeal and ask for a copy of the CEO's notes

 

Which council though. The notice was issued with a Keele Uni header. Would I send this to Newcastle under Lyme council which Keele comes under or Staffordshire County Council?

[flyingdoc]

Hold off sending it anywhere until others have added comments - like I say no immediate rush

[flyingdoc]

also take a look at these threads

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/139812-civil-parking-notice-keele.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/132932-advice-civil-penalty-notice.html

[lamma]

its not council it is a PPC fraud. they are even using a Northants postcode to make it look more "TEC like". This clearly an outrageous unlawful and illegal piece of paper. fear not, its the PPC that is hugely and clearly in the wrong. see http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/164651-problems-ppcs-face.html?highlight=problems+ppc+face and FAQs - PPCs - fighting back. The forces are aligned haven't seen many as outrageous as this one is.

[flyingdoc]

I rest my case m'lud

[robrymond]

So are they likely to take this furhter or will they leave it unpaid. I don't want to be spending ages fighting £25 for it to backfire and its more about time and effort as well but I certainly don't agree with how they go about there business.

[crem]

tsend it to the council parking department as part of an informal appeal and ask for a copy of the CEO's notes

 

lamma, that seems a very naughty thing to do! If he does this the PPC may get into serious trouble for using terms like "penalty", "CEO" and the postcode near to TECs. Surely you wouldn't want the PPC to get into bother for these minor transgressions would you?

[Al27]

So are they likely to take this furhter or will they leave it unpaid. I don't want to be spending ages fighting £25 for it to backfire and its more about time and effort as well but I certainly don't agree with how they go about there business.

 

You will receive 4 or 5 threatening letters, maybe a couple from debt collectors, before they give up and go away.

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them

• ignore the lies and threats in the letters

• they will give up and go away after 4 or 5

• they will not go to court, but will happily threaten court action to try and scare you into paying. And maybe threaten to kidnap your dog, beat up your granny etc etc.

• if you get a debt collection letter, don't confuse them with bailiffs. Debt collector = private company with no powers apart from letter writing.

[lamma]

So are they likely to take this furhter or will they leave it unpaid. I don't want to be spending ages fighting £25 for it to backfire and its more about time and effort as well but I certainly don't agree with how they go about there business.

 

did you read my post about how unlawful this paper is ? and follow the links ? I would love to get one of these and have them try to take it to court - the judge would destroy them. Fear not.