Help with cca?/GE money.

[guzzleguts]

Hi could some of good poeple take a look at this cca and let me know what you think.

Ive had the account approx 5 years dont know exactly what date as there is no date on the document.

And im sure there was nothing on the back of application form.

would apreciate any advice/opinions.

 

thanks gg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2009 by citizenB

[IdaInFife]

Is this a credit card or store card?

 

 

And if this 2 seperate pages or 1 page front and back?

 

 

Ida x

[guzzleguts]

Thanks Ida

Its a store card.

I believe they are seperate the t&c's are bigger than the cca.

And idont remember anything on the back,even though it was a long time ago.

thanks gg

[guzzleguts]

Anyone else please

[ScabHunter]

At the start of the box at the bottom of the application form it says "The financial and related particulars shall be as set out in Section 7 of the terms and conditions on the back of this agreement."

 

I suspect this could be enforced, but I welcome other opinions.

 

SH

[blind-as-a-bat]

At the start of the box at the bottom of the application form it says "The financial and related particulars shall be as set out in Section 7 of the terms and conditions on the back of this agreement."

 

I suspect this could be enforced, but I welcome other opinions.

 

SH

 

I would agree if they can prove those where the terms on the reverse at the time of signing, which would require the origanel to prove, without that it would be down to the mood of the judge.

 

as it stands now it is an uneforceable front, with a set of terms that may make it enforceable, but could be from a diffrent agreemant, whith different rates for all we know

[guzzleguts]

Thanks SH and BAB

I dont think there was anything on the back and as its on micro-fiche i dont know if i will ever find out.

thanks

gg

[guzzleguts]

Does it matter that it was never dated.

 

gg

[creditcardmug]

Does it matter that it was never dated.

 

gg

 

It would be another string to your bow in any court claim.

 

"The contract has no date your honour"...so can it be a contract?

[blind-as-a-bat]

Not to mention not signed by the creditor, so they never agreed to enter into the contract i believe

[guzzleguts]

Thanks ccm and bab

both good points.

much apreciated

 

gg

[guzzleguts]

ccm or anyone else

Is there a letter you can think of or a way of tackling this you could suggest.

Thanks gg

[creditcardmug]

Try this,

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANT DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT

 

Dear Sirs,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

This account is in Dispute.

On xx/xx/2007 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

As you will be no doubt aware, the Copy Document Regulations requires that documents are easily legible and clearly the terms of the agreement are not easily legible, infact far from it. most of the document is blurred and cannot be interpreted and there are no terms and conditions.

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the "1974 Act" sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading's guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone's interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

[creditcardmug]

Delete the bit about the Default Notice if you haven't had one

[guzzleguts]

Thanks for that ccm

will be going rec del first thing mon.

thanks for your time

 

gg

[IdaInFife]

Creditcardmug,

 

That letter is going with the cca but store cards aren't covered,

is it still applicable??

 

 

Ida x

[creditcardmug]

Hi Ida, im not aware store cards arn't covered by CCA, its a running account under 25k so i presumed it would be, im happy to be corrected if im wrong though.

 

Regards

[IdaInFife]

That's why I was asking, cause when you know you have read a thread and it's stuck in the back of your mind all fuzzy, something about tokens keep knocking at me, I was asking for my own assurances to be sure for future

 

thanks,

 

Ida x

[creditcardmug]

im sure someone else will be on soon to clarify it:idea:

[blind-as-a-bat]

I think your refering to charge cards, as stores used to use years back, if i remember rightly, i read on here they where not covered by the CCA.

 

Im asuming the referance to the regulation under the CCA act 1974 on the agreemant, means it does indeed have to conform to the act so therefor is not a charge card, but still too new to this to be sure.

[IdaInFife]

Thanks BAB, I think that's where i have got confused about.

 

Especially as you have pointed out it does state cca 1974 on the docs ! Duh!

 

 

Ida x

[guzzleguts]

Hi all

I hope all the people that have helped me are still subscribed.

 

This is a long story so please bare with me.

 

The reason I found CAG was my wife’s next account, and the treatment she received from Moorcroft, reducing her to tears over 3 phone calls.

 

Brief details,

Before I found out about her next debt she had set up a payment plan with next and was making monthly payments, then she paid 1 payment 3 days late and they defaulted her the same week with the cra.

 

 

A week before I found out she received court papers from Northampton, and we submitted a defence, because we were a little naive we didn’t send it recorded or special delivery, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Anyway she got a CCJ because the court didn’t receive our reply.

 

We have since applied for a set aside which is being heard in early jan, however our defence was going to be no cca no debt , but we were shocked to receive a letter 6 days before court with a poor copy of a cca with my wife’s sig on it, its 2 pages they only sent pg 2 with no prescribed terms on it.

 

Please can any body advise, im thinking I have to go down the unenforceable route now and no default notice and hope we get a nice judge.

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks GG

Edited January 4, 2009 by guzzleguts
WRONG TERM

[blind-as-a-bat]

If you can scan and post what they have sent, less personal details of course, it would help to make sure, but if it has no prescribed terms its not a CCA by the sounds of it.

 

One point is there not supposed to be a limit 7 or 14 days before the hearing that documents may be produced

[guzzleguts]

Thanks BAB

I dont know about time limit but that sounds interesting, any more info on this would be good.

 

I will post up what they sent, but its def unenforceble unless the page they havent sent had the terms on, but my wife doesnt remember signing anything,

 

Thanks GG

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello GG!

 

Let me know what help you need and I'll have a look.

 

I have seen the Scans up at Post #1, and I can say that the Page of Terms are not a real Copy of the Rear of the main alleged Agreement.

 

They have Printers Marks at the corners, so this is a Print from a pre-Press Document...it would never look like that once Printed, cut to size and on the Rear of the other Page.

 

The Circles with lines through them are Plate alignment and/or Cutting Guide Marks. If this was Black & White, then it would only need one Ink (Black), so they are most likely to be Cut Marks to show the Printer where to cut the Paper once Printed.

 

If it's to Scale, which is highly unlikely, then the measurement between the Cut Marks should match the main Page.

 

For example, an A4 Document would be Printed on larger Sheets than A4 (possibly on a Roll, or even on a Sheet A1 size or larger), and the Cut Marks would show the Printer where to Cut to make Printed A4 Sheets from a larger page. Thus, to Proof an A4 Print Job at full Scale, you would need an A3 Printer to fit the A4 Page and the Printers Marks that lie outside of the Print Area.

 

If the alleged Agreement was smaller than A4, then it could be Proofed at 100% Scale on an A4 Printer. What they have sent is therefore some Pre-Press Copy and I doubt it's at the true Scale. However, as all they've sent you are copies, it's hard to say what Scale they are working to unless the alleged Agreement was smaller than A4 and so could be Scanned and then re-Printed at Full 100% Scale on A4.

 

If they used Colour, then they'd have Plate Registration Marks as well, so that the Colour Plates can be lined up to get the Inks to Register together to make pretty pictures rather than the sort of image you'd expect to get after 28 Pints of Strong Ale!

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited January 4, 2009 by banker_rhymes_with
Clarity.