Council Tax paid online but bailiffs want money

[wemouse]

Hi all,

 

Can someone help me! I have paid all my council tax off online 2wks ago and my local council have confirmed it. I have received a hand delivered letter today from a bailiff (Rundle & Co) asking for £180 pounds by this Friday or they will take action against me I.e Bankruptcy,charging order or prison. All the bailiffs have done is delivered 2 letters and one of them being this final demand. Do i have to pay this as i have no dealing with them at all.

 

Thanks

[uneverdid]

Hi i did this recently and i just rang my council office and asked them to let the bailiffs know they had the money. The council will then forward the money onto them. My council tax is now with the bailiffs who really want me to pay them direct but i dont i just keep paying it online at the end of the day they cant take any action if you have proof that you have paid money into your council tax account.

Did you actually physically take the letter or was it pushed through the door, i would just play silly and keep paying online. Do make sure you print off your bank statement or ask the council to send you a receipt to make sure you are covered.

[kfdh1962]

if you have already paid the council tax of fthere is no debt for them to chase. You should write to the council tax revenues office asking them to call off the bailiffs as you have paid and they have confiemd this. i would also write to the bailiffs disputing thi sdebt and there right to collect and advis ethem to rfer to their client

 

even when debts are passed to DC, you can stillpay the council directly. they will tell you that once you have passed it over they prefer you to pay the DC but they cannot stop you frompayingthem directly

 

is the £180 what was owed or are they hiking charges on. They will try to inflate charges, but bylaw theer are only crtain things and amounts they can claim for.

[wemouse]

kfdh1962 : Council tax has been paid of in two payments first for £650 and the second for £129 direct to the council the last one being two weeks ago and the £180 are bailiffs charges. can they still charge me for the hand delivered letter today? as my council tax was paid up two weeks ago?

 

thanks

[kfdh1962]

as the debt was paid off before they called i would contest the charges as clealry the council should have advised them that the arrears had been cleared.

are they charging £180 for 2 letters?. there are pre-determined amounts they are allowed to charge for visits to hand deliver letters, its around £24 for the first and a lower figure for the second , ill go check it out for you

[kfdh1962]

£20 pound for the first visit and £15 fo the second, take a lokk here, some useful advice

 

Debt Basics - Bailiff Guide - know your rights

 

i would write to them advising that the debt is fully paid and when. ask them to break down their charges with details of what activiites they are charging you for and when these occured. the dispute the amounts and the right o colectthem if the debt was paid before you were contacted

[wemouse]

Thanks kfdh1962,

 

I have just spoke to the council and told them i was not happy with these charges and the only contact i have had with the bailiffs are these two letters so why is it so high (£180) and could i have a break down of the charges. they replied that the charges look OK to them and the bailiffs have included a charge for delivering the letters in a white van. why should this be extra? anyway they are going to send me a breakdown and have given me a 7 day reprieve to get my complaint in. that's nice of them!

[kfdh1962]

the charges are pre-determined by law, they can charge £20 for the first visit and £15 for the second , whether they came by push bike, white van or harrier jump jet is irrelevant. the council tax staff wont necesaarily be aware of what bailiffs can charges, the council should have called off the bailiffs, and in this case it sounds as if they should neve have sent them anyway as you paid it several weeks ago.

 

these bailiffs work on peopels fera and sacer them into paying, and rely on the fact that most people are not aware of what can lawfully be charged. challenge it, they cannot charge you £180 pounds for two vists.. end of story

Edited November 27, 2008 by kfdh1962

[kfdh1962]

Will I get advance notice of a bailiff visit and fees?

From 1 April 1998, local authorities must send you a letter giving 14 days notice of a proposed bailiff visit to collect council tax. County court bailiffs must issue a warning notice allowing 7 days for you to pay.

Do I have to pay the bailiff's fees?

The fees that bailiffs can charge for recovering money vary. There are fixed fees for bailiffs collecting council tax; for example, from 1 April 1998 fees for the first visit by a bailiff are £20 and £15 for a second visit, where no levy or seizure is made.

All bailiff fees (with the exception of magistrates' court bailiffs) can be looked at by the county court to see if they are reasonable or excessive. This is known as 'detailed assessment'. If you think that the bailiff's fees are excessive you should get further advice about this

[wemouse]

thanks for all your help

 

i will keep you update!

 

[kfdh1962]

please do ... stand firm a sthey cannot charge that amount for two visits

[wemouse]

Hi,

 

Would any one have a template that i could use to send the bailiffs and council about over charging?

 

thanks

[kfdh1962]

try something along tehs elines, send a letter to the council tax revenues office as weel pointing out it has been paid in full and asking them to return the account to their control

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

I understand xxx Council has appointed you to recover my Council Tax Liability arrears for xxxx, stated as £xxx. This council tax liability was paid in full on the XXXX

 

Firstly I would like to make you aware that I am fully aware of my rights and you will not gain entry to my home under any circumstances to levy goods and I know the fees allowed under statute and when these fees can be applied.

 

I am not willing to deal with a Debt Collection Company in any way.

Please stop sending letters to me regarding this matter.

I ask you return the account to the council listed above.

At this point in time it is not clear what charges you have added to my Tax Liability arrears with xxx Council. I therefore require you to supply an itemised statement of account that you hold on me that clearly shows what charges have been added and what these charges are for giving details of dates and times etc. You are required in statute to supply this information and I look forward to this within 14 days.

 

Whilst your demands and charges are under investigation, all payments detailed above will be made directly to xxxx council

 

I am sending the council a copy of this letter and requesting that it be filled with my account for further reference.

 

I trust the above meets your approval and I look forward to your timely reply by letter.

 

Yours faithfully,

[wemouse]

thank kfdh1962 for the letter!

 

what should i put in the stated as £xxx part? My Council Tax Liability arrears where £779.00 and the bailiffs wanted £180 pounds on top.

[kfdh1962]

try something along these lines

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I understand xxx Council has appointed you to recover my Council Tax Liability arrears for year xxxx, stated as £779. This council tax liability was paid in full on the XXXX

 

Firstly I would like to make you aware that I am fully aware of my rights and you will not gain entry to my home under any circumstances to levy goods and I know the fees allowed under statute and when these fees can be applied.

 

I am not willing to deal with a Debt Collection Company in any way.

Please stop sending letters to me regarding this matter.

I ask you return the account to the council listed above.

At this point in time you have added £180 in charges to my alleged Tax Liability arrears with xxx Council, although it is not clear what these charges are for. I therefore require you to supply an itemised statement of account that you hold on me that clearly shows what charges have been added and what these charges are for giving details of dates and times etc. You are required in statute to supply this information and I look forward to this within 14 days.

 

Whilst your demands and charges are under investigation, all payments detailed above will be made directly to xxxx council

 

I am sending the council a copy of this letter and requesting that it be filled with my account for further reference.

 

I trust the above meets your approval and I look forward to your timely reply by letter.

[wemouse]

thank you so much again kfdh1962 for your help.

 

letters are off!!

[kfdh1962]

no problem wemouse, good luck with that and keep us posted

 

kevin

[wemouse]

Update!!

 

Had a Bailiff banging on my front door at 6.32am this morning and then pushed a demand for £180 through my letter box. So much for the 7 days grace the council gave me! They haven't put any extra charges on top this time so that's a bonus.

 

I posted the letters off yesterday, one to the bailiffs recorded delivery and a copy with a cover not to the council 1st class so they should get them today and then we shall see what happens.

 

wonder what time i will get my early wake up call tomorrow!

[kfdh1962]

tut tut , nuaghty boys, no advanced warning of a proposed visit clearly breaks the guidelines on debt collection!.. no surprise there though, these guys flout the rules all of the time..

Bailiffs collecting rent are obliged to call between sunrise and sunset, all other bailiffs can call at any time of day or night. However most bailiffs should call at a 'reasonable' time, either during normal office hours or between 8.00 a.m. or 8 p.m., again as per the guidelines.

If a bailiff calls they should provide identification or authorisation if you ask them to. Bailiffs collecting for rent must show their certificate from the county court if you ask them to. Bailiffs collecting unpaid council tax must show written authorisation from the local authority, they also have to be certieifed by the courts and specifically for the company they represent , you can demand they produce this as if they dont then they are acting unlawfully.. dont open the door though at any time!!

[wemouse]

Hi Kevin,

 

Do you think they will reply to my letters and send me a break down of the costs ? How do you think this will go?

[kfdh1962]

if a debt is dipusted they are legally obliged to investigate it further and rpove that the debt being collected is valid, you are disputing their charges which are clearly inflated and are well above what they are allowed to claim from you for the activities so far carried out. the most should be £35. they cant charge you for the third visit and they cant charge you for the van. they have not levied goods and do not have a walk in possesion order so them turning up in a van is irrelevant. even if a debt is at a stage where they were turning up to someone to seize good have done al of the above, they can still not charge more for than you could prove one could be hired for.

i had a similar situation with Equita. i refused to pay them and paid the council. they still tried to charge me (well my ex) over £400 for two hand delivered letters and a van... i wrote to them asking for the break down and sent proof the debt was paid. they never supplied the breakdonw but aftre my letters to them and the council and me phoning them acouple of times the charges were reduced to £42

[wemouse]

Thanks again Kevin for the tips. some times i think its a lot easier to just pay them and get it over and done with! In the end its £140 pounds in my pocket and not theirs.

 

cheers!

[kfdh1962]

exactly wemouse... nobody objects topaying whats due.. bet these clowns just rip off those who can least afford it... you could turn it around back on them and pay them the £40 quoting what they are legally obliged to charge for 2 vists only.. send proof of payment of council tax liability and tell them your business is concluded thank you very much... if they continue to chase you for other charges then you will report them to the council and to the courts that issue their licenec and even bring action against them for harrasment:D

[kfdh1962]

if you want to get them off your back you could pay them just what they are entitled to, otherwise stand firm until it is returned to the council. If you want them gone and a peaceful life then just pay what they can charge and no more.. your call... and send them something like this

 

Dear Sirs,

I write again in respect to your ongoing attempts to unlawfully collect a disputed debt. I have previously advised you that the outstanding council tax liability was paid in full directly to the council on XXXXX (date) Proof of payment is enclosed.

 

The charges which you are attempting to collect from me a clearly inflated and are greater than those that you are legally entitled to collect. You are fully aware that you are only allowed to charge for 2 visits, £24.50 for the first and £18 for the second visit. You are not entitled to charge for further visits. You have not levied goods and you do not have a walk in possession order and therefore are not entitled to charge for the use of a van.

 

Please find enclosed payment for £42.5 this being the total amount you are legally entitled to for your activities relating to this liability. Any further attempts to collect this debt or further charges will be reported to the council and also to the courts issuing you bailiffs certification.

 

 

 

Yours

Edited December 4, 2008 by kfdh1962
charges updated

[kfdh1962]

i have just updated the charges info, its actually now £24.50 for the first visit and 18 for the second