Morgan Stanley CCA- received Barclaycard terms in response**WON, THEN WON AGAIN!!!**

[noomill060]

Applied for a Morgan Stanley card back in 1999. MS credit card business was bought by Goldfish, who in turn were bought out by Barclaycard this year. The deal was finalised in September and I receieved a Barclaycard Cashback card as replacement for my previous MS card.

 

I CCA'd Barclaycard in October.

 

In response, today I received a reasonable photo/microfiche copy of Barclaycard's conditions, apparently from the time I applied for my MS card.

 

A true copy of my original Morgan Stanley credit agreement, it aint.

 

What is the position with this. The ownership of this account has passed through three companies since I applied.

 

Do Barclaycard need to provide me with a copy of the original company's, or can they fob me off with their own?

[spamheed]

A CCA request is a request for a copy of the agreement that you signed, if you signed for a Morgan Stanley Card then the CCA would be for a Morgan Stanley card and nothing else.

[noomill060]

My thoughts exactly.

 

We shall see...

[Patma]

I've been pondering the same question Noomill, re an original Easycard which morphed into Lloyds/TSB.

I have a sneaky feeling it might be the worst nightmare of these companies if people started demanding their CCA's enmass.

I know Lloyds/tsb also bought Accucard and goodness knows how many other cards.

[noomill060]

What I received in response to a CCA request for my Morgan Stanley card

 

[noomill060]

Letter from Barclaycard that came with the above document:

 

[noomill060]

Methinks that they dont have the original agreement.

 

The "Conditions" above are not very legible, but as they arent related to the actual account, that appears to be irelavent. The important thing as I see it is that they are BARCLAYCARD conditions- not MORGAN STANLEY!

 

Question is- how I do use this apparent lack of agreement in the POC for a claim I will be making for return of PPI premiums applied to the account by Morgan Stanley in 2000-2002?

 

The premiums and interest levied thereon make up 70% of the statement balance.

 

I have written to Barclaycard stating that I do not acknowledge any debt and also sent a s.10 notice telling them to cease processing of personal data due to lack of any evidence that I gave my consent. Consent would have been included in a credit agreement, but they dont appear to have one.

 

I will be asking for an order to comply with my s.10 request as well.

 

 

They havent written back but I have been receiving idiot auto dailer calls to which I have only spoken to them once, today and told them I dispute any debt and will communicate in writing only. The call centre muppet said that it all went over his head and put a block on further idiot calls for 14 days.

 

As they dont appear to have an agreement I would will also ask the court for a declaration of unenforceability. If they wish to defend, they will need to produce a valid agreement with a signature, presumably. A bit hard of they dont have one.

 

 

This is concerning a 1999 agreement for a MORGAN STANLEY card- not a Barclaycard.

 

Barclaycard are now the owners of ex-MS accounts.

 

The card is now called a "Barclaycard Cashback"

Edited November 25, 2008 by noomill060

[noomill060]

Is the answer staring me in the face- that this document has no other use other than as a paper dart and that they remain in default of my s.78 CCA request? ( now long passed the 12+2 days)

 

I have told them as much and they havent written back to deny it, in fact they havent written at all, apart from the documents posted above.

 

You would have thought that they could at least have written to ask for payment arrears!

Edited November 25, 2008 by noomill060

[Pinky69]

In any case what they have sent you is not an agreement of any kind, only Barclays Terms and Conditions. An agreement must have a credit limit, an interest rate, a schedule of repayments - and a signature box with your signature and the prescribed terms must be in the same section as the signature box. You can tell them they haven't fulfilled your request for a true copy of the MS agreement and until they send you one the account is in dispute. If 12 + 2 days are up you can stop paying them unless they provide the required agreement.

[noomill060]

That's been done, pinky.

 

What I next plan to do is claim back the PPI premiums and a few charges.

 

If they dont have an agreement to say I agreed to pay them, that should theoretically make it open and shut- and a declaration that the agreement is unenforcable would be the cherry on the top! The PPI will almost wipe out the account balance, just leaving a few buttons outstanding.

 

(And should also mean they have to pay me the PPI direct, preventing them simply knocking off the PPI from the balance)

 

The interest on the PPI premiums is of course growing on a daily basis and will wipe the entire balance in a few months

 

Im putting a POC together.

Edited November 25, 2008 by noomill060

[noomill060]

bump- any thoughts?

[gill5blue]

HI Noomill

Why don't you contact PETER BARD. I am sure he will have the answer. I had thought of CCA barclays-they now own my MS account, but I only owe hundreds not thousands, as on my other credit cards. I do feel they do not have a leg to stand on with you, but it is tempting for me too, as I managed write off 3 accounts with barclaycard-but the way they treated me, phonecalls letters etc, it could be like having a go back at them, or having the last laugh.

GOOD LUCK

gill5blue

[noomill060]

Hi gil, thanks. I suppose I actually know the answer mtself and going by past experience Barclays will only respond to legal action and will simply roll over as usual, after realising they arent dealing with a muppet.

 

I'll go by gut instinct and file against them tomorrow.

 

Got that Barclaycard? Its game on.

 

Yeah baby - LETS PARTY!!!!

 

 

[Patma]

Noomill, Have you sent an SAR to Barclaycard? I'm just thinking they may already have written off your debt, but not bothered to tell you.

I say this because that's what Barclaycard did with me.I CCA'd for an account I was pretty sure they couldn't produce anything for and I would never have found out they had written the debt off if I hadn't sent an SAR and seen it in the computer printouts that came.

They didn't bother to tell me. Also in the SAR I discovered that my two other accounts had been put to a nil balance about 9 months previously and I'd been making regular payments all that time which were not shown. I wrote a lenghty complaint and it received no response but they've left me alone ever since.

Barclays tend to go very quiet when they know they haven't a leg to stand on. You go for it and good luck.

[noomill060]

Hi patma- I have only just stopped paying this account this month- they have been auto dialing me 4 times a day until this afternoon when I put one of their monkeys in the picture.

 

Monkeyman told me he would place a two week block on the auto dialer and asked if I was in the legal profession.

 

A SAR'd Morgan Stanley two years ago to get my statements for my charges reclaim.

[Patma]

I'll go by gut instinct and file against them tomorrow.

 

That feels right to me. Sometimes it's not so easy to see what's the best way forward when we're dealing with our own issues, but I'm pretty sure you'd be giving the advice to go for it, if this was someone else's issue and you were just looking at it objectively.Don't know if that helps or not:)

[noomill060]

Yes, I'd be telling others to go for it in the same situation, patma! I just wanted to try others opinion to see if I was correct.

 

POCs nearly done.

Edited November 27, 2008 by noomill060

[Patma]

Well done, Noomill. That's what's so great about this forum, the fact that we can test out our ideas and know we'll get good solid objective opinions and suggestions. You've been very helpful to me when I've needed it and I'm very grateful for that. I'll be very interested to hear how this develops.

[noomill060]

Filed my claim today.

 

Interestingly, I had a call from Emma Thompson at Barclays Lititgation Team (BLT) last night. Said she had just recieved a letter I sent on 27 November telling them they hadnt responded to my LBA and that I would thus be filing at my convenience

 

Emma said that BCard hadnt recieved my LBA dated 8 November (sent to local branch, got Proof of Posting)

 

Emma Thompson is in the team dealing with charges claims. She wanted to know if this was a Goldfish card. Told her it was a Morgan Stanley card and that I had CCAd them and got Barclaycard T&C in response.

 

Told her that I would be claiming for a few charges and a lot of PPI premiums citing failure of consideration and that as they didnt have my credit agreement it would appear they appeared to be lacking in the leg to stand on department.

 

Interestingly, Emma didnt ask any questions to confirm my identity. (woops!)

 

Said she would be passing my letter on to the PPI dude.

 

This morning said PPI dude (Antonio Lombardi) phoned me (again failing to confirm my ID)

 

Told me that he would be asking Morgan Stanley for my credit agreement. He seemed to think that I should quake in my slippers at this news!

 

(This would appear to suggest that BCard dont have ex-MS credit card agreements if they have to ask MS for them)

 

Also, Lombardi wanted to know where I sent my LBA- I told him I'd sent it to my local Barclays branch, he said it hadnt been passed on.

 

(Not my problem, dude. I got proof of posting)

 

Anyway, Lombardi very keen that I send my claim form and POC to BCard Central at Churchhill Place rather than local branch - "In case we dont get it in time"

 

Now, that would be a shame. Again- not my problem, dude.

 

Im in N.Ireland- different jurisdiction to England/Wales. If you file here with the defendants address in England, the court sends you the claim straight back and you have to complete an outside jurisdiction form to get them serve the claim. This takes at least a week. After that, the defendant get an extra two weeks to enter a defence (6 weeks, instead of 4)

 

I filed today giving the local Barclays branch as the address to serve the papers.

 

If the local staff dont pass these papers on to BCard, that aint my problem.

[Patma]

Really pleased you've gone ahead and filed. Looking forward to see what happens next. If this goes all the way to court, will Barclays have to send their legal team over to Northern Ireland? If so that should cost them a bit

[noomill060]

If they want to defend this they would have to use a N.Ireland registered solicitor. N.Ireland is a different jurisdiction and solicitors from England/Wales are barred from practising here.

 

In the event that wouldnt prove a problem for them though, Im sure they have solicitors they use here.

[pt2537]

what were the pocs then?

 

are they defending?

[noomill060]

Ill get the POCs, hang on. It hasnt been served yet. Only filed t'other day.

Edited December 14, 2008 by noomill060

[noomill060]

PoCs deleted.

 

PM me. If I like the look of you I may share them.

Edited March 2, 2009 by noomill060
No one interested when I needed help, so write your own.

[pt2537]

the quotes that you have included re failure of consideration are from

 

Halsburys Laws of England

 

they are a commentary on the law and are recognised by most judges so you will need to point this out