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    • just to be clear here..... the DVLA do not send letters if a drivers licence address differs from any car's V5C that shows the same driver as it's registered keeper.
    • sorry she is a private individual, the cars are parking on her land. she can clamp the cars. only firms were outlawed from doing it bazza. thats what the victims of people dumping cars on their drives near airports did and they didn't not get prosecuted.    
    • The DVLA keeps two records of you. One as a driver and one for your car. If they differ you might find out in around a month when they will send you a reminder as well as to your other half for their car. If you receive nothing then you can be fairly sure that you were tailgating though wouldn't explain why they didn't pick up your car on one of drive past their cameras. However even if you do get a PCN later then your situation will not change. The current PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 which is the main law that covers private parking. It doesn't comply for two reasons. 1. Section 9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN states 47 minutes which are the arrival and departure times not the time you were actually parked. if you subtract the time you took to drive from the entrance. look for a parking place  park in it perhaps having to manoeuvre a couple of times to fit within the lines and unload the children reloading the children getting seat belts on  driving to the exit stopping for cars pedestrians on the way you may well find that the actual time you were parked was quite likely to be around ten minutes over the required time.  Motorists are allowed a MINIMUM of ten minutes Grace period [something that the rogues in the parking industry conveniently forget-the word minimum] . So it could be that you did not overstay. 2] Sectio9 [2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN does not include the words in brackets and in 2a the Act included the word "must". Another fail. What those failures mean is that MET cannot transfer the liability to pay the charge from the driver to the keeper. Only the driver is now liable which is why we recommend our members not to appeal. It is so easy to reveal who was driving by saying "when I parked the car" than "when the driver parked the car".  As long as they don't know who was driving they have little chance of winning in court. This is partly because Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. And because anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is able to drive your cars. It is a shame that you are too far away to get photos of the car park signage. It is often poor and quite often the parking rogues lose in Court on their poor signage alone. I hope hat you can now relax and not panic about the PCN. You will receive many letters from Met, their unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors threatening you with ever higher amounts of money. The poor dears have never read the Act which states quite clearly that the maximum sum that can be charged is the amount on the signs. The Act has only been in force for 12 years so it may take a  few more years for the penny to drop.  You can safely ignore everything they send you unless or until they send you a Letter of Claim. Just come back to us if they do send one of those love letters to you and we will advise on a snotty letter to send them. In the meantime go on and enjoy your life. Continue reading other threads and if you do get any worrying letters let us know. 
    • Hopefully the ANPR cameras didn't pick up the two vehicles, but I don't think you're out of the woods just yet. MET's "work" consists of sending out hundreds of these invoices every week so yours might be a few days behind your partner's. There is also the matter of Royal Mail.  I once sold two second-hand books to someone on eBay.  Weirdly the cost of sending them separately was less than the cost of sending them in one parcel.  So to save a few bob I sent them seperately.  One turned up the next day.  One arrived after four days.  They were  sent from the same post office at the same time! But let's hope I'm being too pessimistic. Please update us of any developments.
    • New version after LFI's superb analysis of the contract. Sorry, but you need to redo the numbering of the paras and of the exhibits in the right order after all the damage I've caused! Defendant's WS - version 4.pdf
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Court Summons out of the blue - What do I do now?


Elkus
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Ok Elkus have you worked out the date of your Defence submission and had a look around for suitable holding defence?

I will assist you if you are struggling with this just post.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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I figured that since the claim was sent on the 27th October, with 5+28 days that means our defence has to be in by the 29th November?

 

I have a couple of defences in mind, but it does depend on whether I get a response back regarding the rest of my CPR request (as they only complied with the NoA, still have the CA and DN to go). Should I call them and ask when I'm going to get these?

 

Elkus

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No they know that that they have to compy and as such will remain in Default of said request.Also smacks of desperation remember Litigation involves mindgames and as such we will give them a few.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Ok, my post arrived this morning with an envelope from Howard Cohen. In it were copies of the CA and what appears to be the DN. I'll find a way of posting scans of both of those shortly...

 

Also provided were printouts of most of the monthly statements, but some were missing ( including August 2008 ) which seems a bit suspect to me.

 

Interestingly the covering letter was dated the 5th of November but the envelope was franked on the 10th, which is past their 7 day deadline. Either it was sitting in someone's drawer for 5 days or they backdated the letter. Any helpful comments on this?

 

Elkus

Edited by Elkus
Changed one word - letter to envelope...
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Hi Elkus

 

Ok does the DN allow 14 days to remidy said breach ie date of DN plus 3 plus 14?

 

Cant enlarge the CCA to see the details good enough to accetain if it is valid can you post it via Photobucket?

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

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So the DN is not dated?:confused: so how can you work out the perscibed period to rectify ie 14 days from when?????

 

On the CCA looks like an Application Form but still quiet blurred.Are there any Perscribed terms within the signitory sheet ie Interest rate,payment date credit limit? are there any T&Cs also attached preferbly within the signitory area or refered to on the signitory ie overleath or attached or linked via letter or number?

 

Andy;)

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You're correct, the DN was not dated and only gave the due date.

 

The CCA was copied onto a sheet of A4 so it's very small! The top half with the signature states the following somewhere:

 

Interest rate of 26.478%

Minimum monthly payment of £4 or 4%

Additional charges info

And that the agreement is non-cancellable

 

If there's anything else I should be looking for, please let me know!

 

Many thanks,

 

Elkus

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Hi wouldnt worrry too much re the CCA the DN is invalid anyway and therfore unlawful. Thats enough to render a good defence and refute the claimants P.O.C

 

 

Andy;)

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Hi Andy,

 

That was my immediate thought upon reading the copy DN. As I now have 2 weeks to submit my defence, what would be the best thing to say to that end? I've read a few submissions by others but they mostly seem to deal with missing copies and failures to adhere to the requests. Not sure what's best to say considering I now have (rather dubious) copies of all the paperwork I asked for.

 

Many thanks,

 

Elkus

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Hi again

 

Without actually being able to see the CCA properly its difficult to advise on this point.Does it contain both yours and theirs Sigs?

Does it state anywhere that is an application Form?

Like i said earlier everything must be within the signitory sheet perscribed terms and also the T&Cs.

With regards to the Defence thats not a problem and would be delighted to assist in drafting you somthing suitable to your case.

Just post nearer the time (not the day before ) and we will draft your Defence.

 

Regards

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Only contains my wife's signature, but their section had been stamped with "COMPLETED".

 

The top of the form says "DEBENHAMS RETAIL PLC STAFF ACCOUNT REQUEST" in black at the top, and the next line says "Please read this application carefully..." etc etc.

 

So does this mean this is an application form and not the Credit Agreement as requested?

 

Elkus

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It could mean but then again you can have an Application agreement providing it conforms to some of the points we have already discussed.

If you feel that it does contain the perscribed terms apart from the OCs signiture then it is therefore unexecuted.You need to check it contains T&Cs if you are happy that the terms are there.

 

Andy

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This could get confusing...

 

There's an authorised signatory box at the very very bottom which is filled in with just a bunch of numbers, but the box that states "Agreement signed for and on behalf of GE Capital Bank Limited" has not been signed or dated, but there's the "COMPLETED" stamp next to it.

 

The top half of the form doesn't state terms and conditions anywhere but it does have headings such as "Key Financial Information" and "Other Financial Information" and so on.

 

I'll see if I can get a much larger copy on photobucket as it shrank the original!

 

Elkus

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It would be helpful, we know the DN is pants ,would nice to know if the CCA is also.

 

 

Andy

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Hi Elkus

 

Ok can see the detail now.I would be inclined to think that this would have been a valid CCA however pity it is unsigned by the OP. I would contend that this could amount to a pre-contractual document. As far as im aware the completed rubber stamp could have been put on last week unless thats dated also.Without the OCs signiture then IMHO it can be argued that the application/agreement remains unexecuted and therfore invalid and unbinding.You may wish for other views and see if they are in agreement.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for clarifying what I suspected, although I don't see any harm in putting that in my defence. Even if the view is eventually taken that this is a valid CCA there is still the issue of the DN which can still be argued. Would arguing the validity of the CCA have an affect on the case if it were to be successfully disputed?

 

Many thanks,

 

Elkus

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Well its only a small point but big enough to render said CCA unenforcable,so along with the DN you have enough to defend with a very good prospect of success.

At the end of the day the game is not to get to Court but to imply to the Claimants that they got it wrong and game over.Post nearer to your submission date and I will assist in your Defence

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello again :)

 

With a week to go for the defence submission date, I figured it's about time we started to come up with a suitable defence...

 

I'll be looking at some other defences to help me get one together, so if anyone's got any helpful suggestions I'll be glad to hear them :D

 

Elkus

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Hey folks,

 

I've been reading through quite a few posts for a suitable defence but all I seem to come across are those for where the CA etc have not been provided. Would anyone have a template for a defence where the requested documents have been provided?

 

It would also need to consider the following points about the provided documents too:

 

1) The CA has not been signed and dated by the creditor, merely rubber-stamped.

 

2) The DN provided was not originally sent to us, nor was it received. The provided copy does not have an issue date, only a due date. Plus the format is poor.

 

3) The NoA was also not sent to us, nor was it received, as per their claim on their PoA.

 

If anyone can suggest any further points it would be very much appreciated! It may also be worth mentioning that we're not disputing the fact that we owe money on the account itself, but are contesting the manner in which we had a claim made against us... Seems a bit unfair when the DN is only asking for about £40, which is something I can afford to pay them.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Elkus

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